The whole coral pricing has become a joke
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BrokenSpoke
New member
Zero, zip, nada, never happen. I'm on the side of Mucho Reef in this discussion. I've had tanks for over 20 years and I refuse to buy into the current frag everything and stick it to fellow reefers mentality
SeattleReefer
New member
so.... no harm, no foul....what's the problem again? How is your life in any way diminished by what OTHER people choose to do with their money?
sde1500
Active member
Lol don't bother. Its not worth it. I get the notion that $1,500 for a single polyp is insane, because well it is. But if someone buys it someone buys it. What I'm failing to understand in this whole thread are posts like that. OMG $69?!?! or thinking that $5 for a polyp is crazy. Sorry prices have changed in the last decade, but are we really getting up in arms over $5, compared to how much this hobby costs just to get into?
BrokenSpoke
New member
My life is in no way diminished and I would assume nor is yours. However, I have no problem pointing out to those less educated how ridiculous frag prices have become.
You, I assume by your name, live in Seattle home of the $15 minimum wage. It doesn't impact me in the slightest however I will point out that it's stupid and that it's true impact is less employment.
SeattleReefer
New member
How does one get this education you are talking about? Is there a school somewhere offering a degree in what OTHER people are willing to pay for coral?
You, and Mucho, and others keep dancing around the issue. How is it your business what other people do with their money?
.
I'd have to say:
1. Livestock Pricing (such as this thread)
2. That there is no one "right way" to do it, and learned all the different ways people are being successful at the hobby. They all add up to understanding how it all works, the biology, chemistry and physics of it all.
3. Lighting - so many different methods these days, all i knew previously from what an LFS owner told me in the late 90's, was that i couldn't do anything but keep a few fish unless i used metal halides. That sorta turned me off on the hobby back then. TBH - i had just happened upon an ad for LED lighting about a year ago, and that was what got me thinking about getting back in to the hobby to do a mini reef.
And lastly, this place has definitely been a source for compatability questions, and care questions for specific fish or coral types. Hearing others experiences are better than reading a general rule from a book.
So i'll just keep lurking the boards and reading as much as i can, and hopefully within the next 6 months i'll be able to make a thread about starting my "build" (which will likely be a small AIO - i don't have big dreams because i don't have the room).
Thanks again!
heathlindner25
New member
I learned that when I see a bunch of bold print, I'll keep scrolling down and not read that post.
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The funny thing is that the longer this post gets, the more ludicrous the "whole coral pricing has become a joke" subject has become. Obviously the aquacultured frags we are getting are going to be more expensive than those lumps of bland corals hacked from the reefs years ago
At this point we could ban the import of wild coral and use strictly aquacultured coral in our tanks. Unfortunately for some, they won't be able to buy big rocks of polyps, they'll have to grow them.
At this point we could ban the import of wild coral and use strictly aquacultured coral in our tanks. Unfortunately for some, they won't be able to buy big rocks of polyps, they'll have to grow them.
20 years, wow, that's great man.
I agree, I just can't rip off a fellow reefer, especially a newb.
sde1500
Active member
Meh, wouldn't be bad if it were an actual discussion. But long ago he decided to ignore any posts that don't outright agree with his POV.
therinx, ecotanker and z3speed4me, here are two more very insightful and informative threads for you guys and anyone new to reefing should read. Very long yet very very educational.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2316723
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941053
MUCHO
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heathlindner25
New member
before I click on it, is there a lot
of bold print with somebody forcing his opinion
on to me? Life is too short, I buy what I want.
...and this is how it began. Hobbyist running black market business's out of their houses. I remember back in the 90's us hobbyists would either trade these frags or simply give them away.
"Zo frags for sale
I have some more frags that are finally large enough to sell. Have 3 shades of pink, 4 shade of green including neon emerald green, orange, fushia, red, teal, 1 blue/green/pale red mixture, 1 stunning multi colored orange/flame orange/lime green rock, tan yellowish eyes and a peach. Prices are $ 15 to $ 35. Email or Pm me and please Identify yourself with your RC I.D. if you email me. Shipping is via Fedex Overnight standard or however you choose.
Thanks
"Zo frags for sale
I have some more frags that are finally large enough to sell. Have 3 shades of pink, 4 shade of green including neon emerald green, orange, fushia, red, teal, 1 blue/green/pale red mixture, 1 stunning multi colored orange/flame orange/lime green rock, tan yellowish eyes and a peach. Prices are $ 15 to $ 35. Email or Pm me and please Identify yourself with your RC I.D. if you email me. Shipping is via Fedex Overnight standard or however you choose.
Thanks
Nope, just more "evidence" of the pioneers of polyp pimping....
sde1500
Active member
Getting a little aggressive guys...
@Mucho, as a newbie I wasn't around 10-15 years ago to see the prices. But those sale posts of yours, they don't show any pictures so can't say I'd have bought them, I tend to like seeing what I'm about to buy.
My one question because quite honestly I can't wrap my head around this. You legitimately believe that there is 0 cause for rising prices outside of these sellers that you say jacked the prices up?
@Mucho, as a newbie I wasn't around 10-15 years ago to see the prices. But those sale posts of yours, they don't show any pictures so can't say I'd have bought them, I tend to like seeing what I'm about to buy.
My one question because quite honestly I can't wrap my head around this. You legitimately believe that there is 0 cause for rising prices outside of these sellers that you say jacked the prices up?
Only on the second link where a bold response was made more than a year after the last post.
BrokenSpoke
New member
As with anything the cost of keeping a tank, raising corals, etc., has gone up. What has changed is that a perception of rarity has been created and thus caused much higher prices for fragged corals. Prices that folks, who often don't know any better, are willing to pay. It's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy in that the individual, who now owns a 'rare' frag wants to recoup some of the high cost so he frags it, gives it a new name like Ultimate Thunderdome, and passes it off as 'rare' to someone else.
I'll give you a similar example, one that did affect me greatly, and that's the .22 ammo shortage. Now this shortage never really existed but the myth was perpetuated on many message boards I frequent. As a result, hoarding of .22 ammo became the norm to the point that many people had 15,000+ rounds stashed. They'd go into a store that happened to have some .22 on the shelf and buy everything in sight. At some point these people decided they had enough ammo for themselves but they continued to buy everything up in sight and then sell the ammo on sites like Gunbroker at huge markups. They'd then take the profits, buy more ammo, and perpetuate the cycle. So what happened?
Shooters like myself had two options, pay the ridiculous prices for .22 ammo (think 4-5 times the original price), or stop shooting altogether. I chose the latter and didn't go shooting for 14 months. Once I was able to start buying ammo at normal prices if I ran into a shooter who didn't have any, and I had extra, I sold it to them for what I paid for it. If they needed it for a kid, I'd give then 200 rounds at no charge. I could have marked the cost to gouger prices but why?
Now the larger question is what has been the long term affect of the artificial shortage? Less new shooters, why buy a gun if you can't get ammo for it, and additional shooters dropping out for the same reason and taking up new hobbies. As a result the number of shooters at the gun club I belong to has dropped.
Do you see the correlation to saltwater tanks? Lets say a newb is looking to start a new tank. It's already crazy expensive because they'll probably buy new equipment because they don't know any better. Now they look at the cost of corals because really most people don't want a FOWLR tank, and the sticker shock hits again. That person may decide it's just too darn expensive a hobby to get into. The higher the cost to play, the smaller the market is who can afford to play.
I'll put it another way. I head over to the LFS and I see some really nice coral frags. Now I know they're under LED lights, lights I don't have (I have T5's), and I look at the prices which to me are way too high for how small the frag is so I pass. I pass because I know the prices are too high and the LFS has lost a sale. I also frequent the message boards for several local clubs and they're not too far off when is comes to pricing for frags. Everything is 'rare' with the price that goes with it. Again, I chose not to purchase because I know the price is too high. The end result is that I have very few corals in my tank. Am I happy with it, nope, but I chose not to pay to play. I started tanks back when you pretty much gave away frags to friends or if you sold them is was for $5 / $10 a frag, beer money as we called it. To this day I would happily give away a frag of anything I had in my tank to a friend or still charge $5 / $10 max. I see it as growing the hobby rather than a way to make money. Maybe it's an age thing as I'm 56 but it's how I choose to live my life and hopefully grow the hobby.
At a time when everyone wants the market to grow, more growth in theory leads to lower prices for equipment, tanks, fish, salt, etc., the high cost of setting up a tank is shrinking the market. The demise of the LFS is not entirely due to the online stores, part of it is the cost of entry to the hobby and the long term cost of creating the tank you always wanted.
Now I'm sure some of you, maybe most of you, don't see anything wrong with the current pricing structure for corals and that's your choice and you're entitled to your opinion. Would you feel the same way if the cost of lighting tripled, quadrupled, because new there were 'rare' LED fixtures? People buy them, manufactures of less expensive LED's see that people are willing to pay stupid prices, so they raise the prices for their 'non-rare' LED's.
This is what the whole fragging, crazy name, thing has done to coral prices. Basic corals such as Frogspawn, Leather corals, Hammer corals, all of them have seen significant price increases because the LFS, and online retailers, have seen how much people are willing to pay for so little.
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heathlindner25
New member
Guns.. sure, I remember when the Barrett 50 cost $5,000. I did not buy one when it was that low, mine cost much ,much ,more, but at the end of the day I don't really care.
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