They broke me. Finally.

Jscwerve

Jscwerve

New member
I've been fighting Dinos for about 3 months. I've changed more water than I can remember. I've used hundreds of pounds of salt. I've purchased reactors, extra pumps, GFO, carbon. I've set up fuge lighting and run three types of macro.

I've lowered feedings to where I truly hope my fish are eating enough. I've started running filter socks and changing them every other day (should have done this before, wow). I have been skimming heavy.

I've left the lights off for days, now I only run them on the bare minimum.

I thaw my food in 0 TDS RODI, then rinse in the same before feeding.

You got me you little bubble making menace. Now I'm trying chemicals. I never thought I would. I don't like putting strange things into my own body, let alone my tank.

Today I purchased some ChemiClean.

I just started the treatment about 20 minutes ago. I almost feel like I'm jumping out of an airplane with a chute that is guaranteed to work 50% of the time.

Yes, my parameters are all spot on. They tend to stay that way when you change 25-30% of your water every week.

The tank is a 125. Have another approx 25 gallons of water in the sump when operating. 150 total. Minus live rock at about 100lbs (generous estimate) and another 80 of substrate which gives me a total of about 127.5 gallons of actual water in the system. I added the exact amount to treat 100 gallons.

I'll be updating this thread, good or bad.

initial video:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jsnQqisinaA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The MJ1200 is my substitute for an airstone as I don't have one. You are required to run one while treating. The directions say to keep running your skimmer, but I don't think I'm going to. Here is the immediate reaction:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IbD0rRTN-To" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

After treatment it is required that a 20% water change be performed. I like to err on the safe side and will be performing a 30% change in 48 hours. (Friday night party!!!!)


Wish me luck!
 
Feel the pain .... Your rocks are nice and clean of green or hair algae, that's good. I have green algae on rocks and some signs of Dino elsewhere ... Following along....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
You are fighting Dino with Chemi-clean? Chemi-clean is really designed for red slime/cyan bacteria. Dino's are very typical in a new tank and pretty much always go away as the tank matures. I see it all the time and it always goes away in due course. Regardless, I am not a fan of Chemi Clean. I have never seen a case of cyano that wasn't being caused by something that coudln't be fixed without using a chemical such as that.

That said, if your tank is relatively new and or recently cycled, you are doing yourself and your tank a huge disservice IMO. Chemi-Clean is anti-biotic based (erythromycin) and isn't prejudice about what bacteria it will kill. It will attack cyano bacteria as well as your dentrifying bacteria. In a new tank that is still diversifying it's bacteria strains, you will be setting your system back by killing off good bacteria in your tank and inhibiting the process of maturing. All this for something that will go away in due time with proper husbandry and patience. Patience being the key word as that is the most important thing in this hobby.

A big part of a tank maturing is building up diverse bacterial strains. It takes a new take up to a year to mature. During this time, the tank will go through all kinds of cycles. Algae will come and go, Dino will often come and go too.

In all honesty, I would stop the treatment and start doing the large water changes to remove the stuff but unfortunately, the damage is already being done.
 
slief said:
You are fighting Dino with Chemi-clean? Chemi-clean is really designed for red slime/cyan bacteria. Dino's are very typical in a new tank and pretty much always go away as the tank matures. I see it all the time and it always goes away in due course. Regardless, I am not a fan of Chemi Clean. I have never seen a case of cyano that wasn't being caused by something that coudln't be fixed without using a chemical such as that.

That said, if your tank is relatively new and or recently cycled, you are doing yourself and your tank a huge disservice IMO. Chemi-Clean is anti-biotic based (erythromycin) and isn't prejudice about what bacteria it will kill. It will attack cyano bacteria as well as your dentrifying bacteria. In a new tank that is still diversifying it's bacteria strains, you will be setting your system back by killing off good bacteria in your tank and inhibiting the process of maturing. All this for something that will go away in due time with proper husbandry and patience. Patience being the key word as that is the most important thing in this hobby.

A big part of a tank maturing is building up diverse bacterial strains. It takes a new take up to a year to mature. During this time, the tank will go through all kinds of cycles. Algae will come and go, Dino will often come and go too.

In all honesty, I would stop the treatment and start doing the large water changes to remove the stuff but unfortunately, the damage is already being done.
Click to expand...

I have taken all of that into account. Believe me. All of what you are saying has been weighing on my mind heavily.

If it was an algae problem, I'd be happy and deal with it. It's not, its a bacterial infection. There are many cycles that a tank will go through, absolutely true. I've seen many of them. Diatoms, various algaes, an explosion of corraline, all good. This current problem is several months in and is only getting worse.

I have done my research. I have read every bit of information about this product I was able to find. I have good chemical testing kits at the ready to make certain the process goes well. I'm expecting loss of some denitrifying bacteria in the process and if I see any trace of ammonia in my system after Friday when I start my skimmer back up and start running my reactors again, I've got enough water ready to change 50% immediately and more the next day. In addition I've also got several dozen pounds of cured, cycled live rock to seed the tank in the chance that the chemical does in fact kill all of the "good" bacteria, as well as a fully cycled, never seen livestock tank setup just sitting empty for an absolute worst case scenario (It's my frag setup I put together a month and a half ago, its still empty).

I did not go into this evolution lightly. Not by any means whatsoever. I have done every single thing recommended to fight this naturally short of going bare bottom and removing my rock and scrubbing it. Hundreds of dollars (probably more) and more importantly hundreds of hours have been spent trying to combat this to no avail. If there is some sort of husbandry I am doing wrong, I must be oblivious to it. All of my livestock continues to thrive and grow, even my oldest critters are still alive to this day.

The words you type are absolutely true. In 99 out of 100 situations I read about and see, you are absolutely correct. Hopefully my situation is that 1 of 100. If not, there will be a well documented case of "don't let this happen to you" for others to learn from as well.
 
If this is a new system you are fighting a battle you will never win. Every new tank will have a bloom that lasts a few weeks or so until bacteria populated enough to eliminate it. You just ride it out and as long as your ro water is good it will go away. And don't use chemi clean.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk
 
Jscwerve said:
I have taken all of that into account. Believe me. All of what you are saying has been weighing on my mind heavily.

If it was an algae problem, I'd be happy and deal with it. It's not, its a bacterial infection. There are many cycles that a tank will go through, absolutely true. I've seen many of them. Diatoms, various algaes, an explosion of corraline, all good. This current problem is several months in and is only getting worse.

I have done my research. I have read every bit of information about this product I was able to find. I have good chemical testing kits at the ready to make certain the process goes well. I'm expecting loss of some denitrifying bacteria in the process and if I see any trace of ammonia in my system after Friday when I start my skimmer back up and start running my reactors again, I've got enough water ready to change 50% immediately and more the next day. In addition I've also got several dozen pounds of cured, cycled live rock to seed the tank in the chance that the chemical does in fact kill all of the "good" bacteria, as well as a fully cycled, never seen livestock tank setup just sitting empty for an absolute worst case scenario (It's my frag setup I put together a month and a half ago, its still empty).

I did not go into this evolution lightly. Not by any means whatsoever. I have done every single thing recommended to fight this naturally short of going bare bottom and removing my rock and scrubbing it. Hundreds of dollars (probably more) and more importantly hundreds of hours have been spent trying to combat this to no avail. If there is some sort of husbandry I am doing wrong, I must be oblivious to it. All of my livestock continues to thrive and grow, even my oldest critters are still alive to this day.

The words you type are absolutely true. In 99 out of 100 situations I read about and see, you are absolutely correct. Hopefully my situation is that 1 of 100. If not, there will be a well documented case of "don't let this happen to you" for others to learn from as well.
Click to expand...

A couple comments.. First Dinoflagellates are not bacteria. They are protists.. Secondly, based on your first video, you said you have been fighting it for 3 months and from what I can tell your tank was only setup in January. 3 months isn't necessarily a long time for them to burn themselves out. Research or not, having been in this hobby for 30 years now and having seen countless Dino cases in tanks your age, my experience is that the Dino outbreak typically lasts that long and even longer. From experience, patience would have been better as I said above. In every case I have ever seen, it always goes away on it's own and it's always been what I consider to be a part of a tank going through it's process on the way to maturity. Getting carried away with water change and everything else is often counter productive. They pretty much always burn them selves out.

I'd also suggest that anybody who said Chemiclean solved their Dino issue misidentified the Dino and instead had cyano. Either way, I wish you luck. I hope it works for the better.
 
Last edited:
my 190 gal tank has been up and running for almost a year, July will be a year and I still have diatoms, only in small patches and its getting better, best of luck and I agree that chemclean is for cyano and not diatoms, conch snails eat them well and keep the sandbed turned up...good luck, sorry misread what you have brain took a vacation
 
To me it looks like a combination of Dino & cyno but it's hard to tell with the lights. Running chemiclean will usually make Dinos worse because it kills things other than just cyno. Some of what it kills u need to out compete the Dino. If it is a combination of both I think u will get rid of the cyno but the Dino will get worse
 
Hi,

One question I didn't see answered here: are the fish/corals in good health? Is it just an appearance thing? I don't mean to minimize what you're going through--it would drive anyone nuts....

If everything's healthy, and the water parameters are good enough, why not just continue with the water changes and ride it out? Have you checked your water source, food source, salt, etc. for possible problems? Frustrating for sure, but OK if the overall health is OK, too.

Just because you began something doesn't mean you need to continue it just because you started...this is a common error for all of us. I guess time will tell. Antibiotics are generally not good unless you have/will have a dire situation in terms of overall health. That's about it. They tend to weaken a system, overall--goes true for us humans as well.

My good thoughts are with you!

Gordon
 
The recipe is wait 6 months while cleaning your sand bed, and otherwise run your tank as if the dinos weren't there.

Like it or not, that's how it works.

Look into running an algae scrubber, they help "move" growing nuisances to the scrubber from your DT.
 
I had recently used Chemiclean (for cyano much more than diatoms, but I did have a minor diatom problem) and it worked great for me. Took a couple of cycles of chemiclean for me to get it all cleared up, but worked well in the end and I'm glad I did it. Same as you, I tried doing it the "right" way by reducing phosphates and nitrates and just general good husbandry for months, but the problems never got any better. I've even lost most of my favorite birdsnest due to the cyano growing on it where it was herd to remove.

Though I know chemiclean is ment strictly for cyano, I have noticed my dino problem is near non-existent now as well. Because I didn't notice any ill effects, I'd say go for it. Taking before and after pictures can be helpful in really seeing how it affected everything. I have a mixed reef and the chemiclean seemed to have no effect on my fish or any of my coral.
 
I too agree on the Chemi Clean. It will not touch Dinos. Now if you've truly done your research you also would know that all those waterchanges are only helping to feed the Dino's more. My suggestion is to do some more research. I have had them in the past and my fight ended after I went to a total blackout for about 5 days, no feeding for that period, and dosed Peroxide twice daily in the recommended dose, during the blackout and continued for a few weeks after.
Prior to that course of action I too was trying all the things you have and more, all resulted it the situation getting worse and worse. I suggest you give the method I used a try, I think you'll be surprised. And in case your concerned about the coral, I did this on a full blown SPS tank. Colors faded a touch but all came back better then before the outbreak. So the choice between color loss or death of corals was a pretty easy one.
 
ABSOLUTE SUCCESS!!!!!!!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
But not really....

24 hour update: Absolutely nothing changed. No question of identity now. Definitely Dinos. (edit: There was a little cyano in the mix and any red tinge of color there was beforehand, completely disappeared)

So after seeing zero results in 24 hours of a treatment that is supposed to take 48, I decided to end it. Also I have a clown goby that was acting a bit different than normal (like a clown goby can be normal, right?). The directions say to change 20% water, to be safe I did a 40%. Additionally before I changed the water, I pulled up the "carpet" of dinos and trashed it. I know that can stir up some things, but I've been wanting to remove some substrate for some time anyways.

I put carbon, GFO, skimmer back online, changed filter sock for good measure and now I wait. I really hope it is a matter of "it will go away with time" as mentioned by a few above.

Since i essentially rolled up the rug of them and removed them from the tank, tomorrow I will be picking up a Hanna checker for phosphate and see if I can see anything. Doubtful as I have basically everything short of a scrubber to keep things in check and I've gone through two boxes of salt in the last two months with water changes.

Thanks for all the responses and this particular case is one of the "old guard" folks around here are right and I'm having crow for dinner! :blown:
 
Like others have said chemiclean isn't for dinos. I have dino-x on it's way from brs as I have been battling them as well.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
 
No more chems for me. Not any time soon anyways.

You know how bad it sucks to do a 50 gallon water change with 5 gallon buckets and trucking it by hand from the basement utility room? Ugh.

I'm not going to touch it any more and see what happens.
 
Jscwerve said:
ABSOLUTE SUCCESS!!!!!!!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
But not really....

24 hour update: Absolutely nothing changed. No question of identity now. Definitely Dinos. (edit: There was a little cyano in the mix and any red tinge of color there was beforehand, completely disappeared)

So after seeing zero results in 24 hours of a treatment that is supposed to take 48, I decided to end it. Also I have a clown goby that was acting a bit different than normal (like a clown goby can be normal, right?). The directions say to change 20% water, to be safe I did a 40%. Additionally before I changed the water, I pulled up the "carpet" of dinos and trashed it. I know that can stir up some things, but I've been wanting to remove some substrate for some time anyways.

I put carbon, GFO, skimmer back online, changed filter sock for good measure and now I wait. I really hope it is a matter of "it will go away with time" as mentioned by a few above.

Since i essentially rolled up the rug of them and removed them from the tank, tomorrow I will be picking up a Hanna checker for phosphate and see if I can see anything. Doubtful as I have basically everything short of a scrubber to keep things in check and I've gone through two boxes of salt in the last two months with water changes.

Thanks for all the responses and this particular case is one of the "old guard" folks around here are right and I'm having crow for dinner! :blown:
Click to expand...

Take it easy on the large water changes if you have a lot of fish or coral in your system. A 40% water change is a pretty big shock to a system (in terms of chemistry) that's already shocked with the antibiotic/chemical treatment. You're libel to get an adverse response from your tanks inhabitants.

Regarding getting a Hanna tester.. Great idea but make sure you get the Hanna HI736 ULR phosphorus checker and not the HI713 checker. The HI736 is MUCH more accurate in our target range and is the only phosphate related tester from Hanna that is designated for "Marine" use. The HI713 is not deemed as a "Marine" tester by Hanna and is not suited for the "ultra low range" Po4 levels we target. Just take the reading from the HI736 and multiply by 3.066 to convert phosporus to phosphate in PPB. Then divide by 1000 to convert the results to Po4 in PPM.
 
I'm confused. Some people are talking about dino's and some are talking about diatoms. Diatoms have been a problem early on in all my tanks but I've never had dinos. Are they really "normal" in a new tank?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Tank restart after 8 years 😳
Replies
13
Views
585
griss
griss
J
Back into it!
Replies
7
Views
400
jtroutt19
J
BuckeyeFish
Water storage tank recommendations
Replies
3
Views
321
OrionN
OrionN
B
I’m a idiot
Replies
3
Views
481
griss
griss
G
Extremely low ORP
Replies
3
Views
628
kharmaguru
kharmaguru
Back
Top