Thinking about giving up! Please help!

B

blaklite

New member
I've got a 24g nano cube that has been in a slow downward spiral for about a year now. I've tried everything I can think of and no matter what I do, it just gets worse and worse. At this point, I'm about to give up and find another hobby, but I really don't want to.

What I've tried:
I've reduce my lighting from 132 watts to only 64 watts and lighting period to 8 hours from 12. I stopped feeding the tank completely. I installed the Current USA skimmer (which doesn't work). I added red grape caulerpa (as a nutrient export). I've tried varying combinations of filter media (ceramic rings, charcoal, filter floss, sponges). I've reduced the temperature from 78 to 72. I added a sixline wrasse in hopes that he would eat the planaria...but that didn't work, so I probably just made things worse by adding a poop-maker. I've tried water from 2 different LFS's using both their fresh and pre-mixed salt. This has been my setup for about 4 months now and I'm not seeing any improvement...in fact I think it's getting worse...and rapidly.

Current problem:
-Red planaria population numbering about 300+.
-Various micro algae taking over every surface (hair, green slime, red slime, you name it)
-Zooanthids are rarely open.
-Mushrooms look unhappy and I loose one about every 3 weeks.

Current setup:
-24g Nano Cube
-Upgraded to 3 x 36W (2 x combo 10k daylight / actinic, one actinic 03/05) + 1 x 24W (10k daylight) CF
-Current USA nano skimmer (have never been able to make it work...it just pumps water into the cup no matter what level I have the water at)
-290gpm power head / filter
-Charcoal and ceramic rings for filter media
-Hydor heater
-25-30lbs live rock
-2" DSB

Livestock:
-Sixline wrasse
-Cleaner Shrimp
-100ish zooanthids
-Medium xenia
-Large leather coral
-Large GSP
-Large yellow polyp colony
-25 or so mushrooms
-Large candy cane coral
-Large mass of red grape caulerpa
-Medium pagoda cup
-10ish ricordia

Maintenance Routine:
-Water change 4 gallons every two weeks (inlcuding scrubbing algae off of rocks, sucking out planaria, etc).
-Mixing red sea salt with LFS water (have also tried their pre-mix)
-Dose 5ml of Coral Essentials every two weeks
-Add 5ml of buffer solution every two weeks
-I completely stopped feeding the tank about 3 months ago

Params:
-Salinity: 1.025
-Temp: 72-75
-Lighting: 8 hours (only 2 x 32w combo bulbs on...others off)
-nitrate: zero
-nitrite: nearly zero
-ammonia: zero

If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate it. I almost called the LFS today to see about bringing in all of my livestock for sale. I really don't want to do that, but I'm not sure that I have much choice at this point. Thank you in advance for anything that you can help me with! :)
 
Sounds like high Phosphates to me, quit buying LFS water and use bottled distilled water for 1, I have also always been against a DSB in a Nano, quit dosing things you are not testing for waist of $$ and cause problems , you are in Columbus make the trip to PhisyBuis on N. Hamilton rd, Sedar will help you out
 
Wow! Nice informational post. :)

It appears you have an algae problem and nowhere do I see your PO4 levels. When you get around to testing, you might find they could be zero due to the algae consuming it as fuel. I would try running some GFO/phosphate remover.

I would also start feeding again. You're lucky you just have a wrasse, as they're good scavengers. Remember, most fish need to be fed 2-3 times daily and not so much. I fish's stomach is only as big as it's eye. Hopefully this gives you an indication on how much to feed. HTH ;)
 
Have you tested for phosphates? How do you have nitrites but not nitrates? Or did you just reverse them? How old are your bulbs? Have you had a lfs test your water to confirm? Does your LFS change their RO filters?
 
Ever try a product called flatworm exit for the Red planaria?

What kind of cleanup crew do you have?

I'd run phosban (either get a reactor rigged or put it in a media bag). Chuck the rings, add purigen, replace the carbon with chemi-pure.
I had red slime once in my cube.
I have my chambers setup like this:
Chamber 1 - Chemi-pure on the bottom, filter floss on top of that, media bag of phosban on top of that.
Chamber 2 - Purigen & heater
Chamber 3 - Pump

Also I wander what the quality of the water your LFS is giving you. If the TDS is high it can be the cause of some algae problems. If you get most of the problems under control I'd invest in an RO/DI, you can find them on E-bay for less than $100.

If all else fails you can sell off your livestock, steralize and clean the liverock and start again. Hope it doesn't come to that.
 
You can try doing an extreme makeover of the tank. And no I don't mean decor, I mean try doing things more diffrently. Obviously if one way doesn't work, try another! As someone said use Distilled water instead of your pre-mixed water. I prefer R/O but I haven't ever tried Distilled. Although, to your post I sense a bit of lazy. For a whole month try keeping up with maintanence, for example doing frequent weekly water changes, keeping S.G stable, keeping temprature stable, and most importantly do parameter tests and feed your fish. If this doesn't change anything in the tank that your unhappy with, then try something else.:D . But im pretty sure it will change something in your tank for the best;) .
 
How often do you change your carbon?

With that mix of corals, I imagine that you have some serious. smack-down chemical warfare going on.
How is your LPS holding up?

I agree with ditching the rings.

You might try the Chemipure in the first chamber.

In the second chamber: two bags of SeaChem Renew instead of carbon. Change one out after two weeks and then the other after another two weeks. This will help with the chemical warfare.

A phosphate remover will help with the algae. You might want to ditch the grape calerpa. I know it looks cool, but it will spread like wildfire and the little "grapes" will eventually become so numerous that they might clog your filtration and/or pump.
Try stuffing a bundle of chaeto behind a rock in an area of good flow and lighting. It will be fine there, do its thing, and be much easier to control.

Hang in there. Sounds like you will have an awesome tank after you have solved the mystery....and a GREAT sense of satisfaction.
 
A series of 20% water changes ( say every 3 days until you do 100% total siphoning the planaria as you go) with seawater mixed with good 0 TDS RO/DI and slowly raising the temp back up to ~ 78 would be a good starting point. It sounds like you have been getting a lot bad bad advice from someone on running this tank that's all over the map. Try simple stuff first then move on to other things to try. IME when things go bad it's usually much easier to fix than you think.

hth, Chris
 
total tank break down
take sand out and throw in garbage
cook rock
get a good skimmer
get good flow
carbon
turkey baster
filter socks
put tank back together without the sand for $%^#@ sakes and enjoy the hobby:D
 
I've been close to giving up for some of the same reasons. I emptied the tank and sold everything except the tank and equipment. After a short time you will calm down and start again. This is an illness, you won't be able to live without your tank once you have one.. I'm not saying to be as drastic but, sit back and take a breather. And like someone else said, stop dosing stuff you aren't testing for trying to combat an unknown problem. Just sit back and mellow out a bit.. You'll work it out..
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8605765#post8605765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bpd964
I've been close to giving up for some of the same reasons. I emptied the tank and sold everything except the tank and equipment. After a short time you will calm down and start again. This is an illness, you won't be able to live without your tank once you have one.. I'm not saying to be as drastic but, sit back and take a breather. And like someone else said, stop dosing stuff you aren't testing for trying to combat an unknown problem. Just sit back and mellow out a bit.. You'll work it out..
Click to expand...
Same with me. My last nano was a disaster. Everyday after getting home from work it was all I could take to see through the diatoms that had grown over the glass. I finally gave in, gave all my corals away, and said never again. Then 2 months later I did another nano, this time with RO/DI instead of wallyworld bottled and use the fostersmith phospure pads, no protien skimmer, and the tank has remained immaculate since start-up first of Aug.
 
Thank you all for the great advice. Sorry for being late on the reply...Thanksgiving got in the way of my internet usage. :) I've done two 25% water changes since posting the original message. I tossed the skimmer, carbon, and rings. I added a PhosPure pad, Kent Phosphate sponge (will remove tomorrow), and ChemiPure. I think that the LFS water may indeed be the culprit. I was thinking back to the last few weeks and realized that I switched from buying saltwater to fresh. I figured why pay more when I can add the salt myself for a lower cost? Now I'm wondering if their fresh water was not the same RO water that they use to make their saltwater. I've started looking for an RO/DI unit on eBay so that I can eliminate this variable.

When I started this tank, everyone was telling me that a DSB was the way to go, but now I'm hearing otherwise. Is this personal preference or is there some real evidence as to which is better?

Colinadam:
I've heard of Flatworm Exit and considered it, but I've seen just as many horror stories as success stories on the internet. If I can't get them under control soon, I may have to try it anyway. My clean up crew is about a dozen astrea snails and a dozen blue leg hermit crabs. I had some nasarius snails, but they didn't last more than a couple weeks. I think the hermit crabs took them out.

Goby:
I'm aware that some of my corals engage in chemical warfare via sweeper tentacles, but it sounds like you're speaking more of chemicals in the water. Is this correct? If so, what effect does this have on water quality?

Oldreefer, lagger, culdublvd:
I didn't include Phosphate levels because they are always exactly zero. In the middle of the worst algae blooms or when all is bright and sunny, they're still zero. I'm guessing that Lagger is correct in that the algae is consuming any phosphates as quickly as they are introduced. I've tested the LFS water several times in the past and found nothing.

Culdublvd:
My bulbs are all approximately 4 months old.

Hopefully these recent changes will show some improvement. Thank you all again for your help.
 
I think you can get a good RO unit from The Filter Guys or Air Water & Ice for a decent price. I got the Typhoon III from AWI with a TDS meter for around $200 shipped, a TDS meter is worth the $20.

Sounds like you have a good cleanup crew. My nassarius snails usually stay in the sandbed but they come out in force when I feed mysis.

Sounds like your well on the way to an awesome setup.

Good Luck
 
Leathers exude chemicals into the water: they discourage stony corals. They can be removed with carbon.

Phosban is your friend. It lasts for months. If you use more than recommended, watch your ph.

I'd suggest a small urchin: tripneustes gracilis [foster/smith] is a good algae grazer that won't hurt your corals.

Ro/di is another good bet.

You can run Flatworm Exit---but the hazard is this, and it can be gotten around: when all those creatures die, you have one heck of a systemic reaction. You have to keep your oxygenation high and you have to test the water every few hours and be prepared to remediate any nosedive in params.

Start now to keep a log of test results, so you can look at trends, not just readings, and get ahead of the game, so you can say: I had 9.0 alk on Wednesday, and here it is Thursday, and it's 8.3. It's ok today, but I'd better add some alk buffer, because it's trending down fast, and I don't want it to be 7.5 tomorrow. If you do that before you do Flatworm Exit, and then test like crazy during the aftermath, you'll bring your tank through ok, because you'll know how it reacts, and what chemicals you're going to have to have to counter what it will do when all that dieoff happens.
 
There is always going to be a debate of having a dsb or not. It is all personal preference. Everyone will try to tell you one way or the other is better, but both was work, and work well. I have ran both but I just prefer the look of sand.
 
YEa ... about the FW exit ... the FW's will start dying and either floating around or will stick to the rock so you'll need an extra set of hands to siphon out all those suckers and gently scrub some off the rock ... get a WC ready 24 hrs before.

I also agree with the 2 products FLricordia mentioned, I tried just the pad and it worked MAGIC!

I think your main problem is the H20 ... you need to find a quality source!
 
I started with a 20g tank and had a algae problem, and I was buying my ro/di water from the fish store. than I upgraded to a 46g tank and bought my own ro/di filter and a tds meter. it is a inline meter thats test water going in and coming out. my readings are 145-190 going in and 0-3 coming out. just for fun I tested the ro/di water from the fish store and it was 265 tds. I asked the people at the store if they had a tds meter and I did not know what I was talking about.
The ro/di filter was the best item I bought for my tank.
 
I've seen some pics of FLRicordia's tank and it's killer! I'd try what he suggests. He knows what he's doing! Mike, I've never seen as nice a tank without a good skimmer in use. My congratulations!
 
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