This work for ICH?

[Amdeus]

Has anyone used this for ICH?

I have a flame angel that is showing signs of ICH and I heard they do not do to well with copper based stuff. I see its ingredients are..

INGREDIENTS:
Zinc Free Malachite Green, Formalin

Any thoughts. Its pretty mild and it seems to be coming and going on its own as he is fighting it off but i seen him itch for first time last night so might be getting to him. Thanks guys

 

[MrTuskfish]

Flame Angels & ich is a problem. You're right, they don't handle copper at all. I think the Quick Cure would be a good brooklynella treatment; but I don't like formalin for ich. I'd use Quinine Sulfate, if you can find it, if not---hypo is the only real alternative, IMO.
What signs is he showing? Is he in your DT with other fish? Do you have a QT ready?

 

[Amdeus]

Flame Angels & ich is a problem. You're right, they don't handle copper at all. I think the Quick Cure would be a good brooklynella treatment; but I don't like formalin for ich. I'd use Quinine Sulfate, if you can find it, if not---hypo is the only real alternative, IMO.
What signs is he showing? Is he in your DT with other fish? Do you have a QT ready?

Yeah he was in display. Im gonna pull the others out as i have 2 spars laying about with hobs. Guess in for long 8 weeks

 

[Amdeus]

hey quick question does will bio wheels still work in hypo?

 

[MrTuskfish]

hey quick question does will bio wheels still work in hypo?

Aerobic bacteria is very tough stuff. I don't use hypo, but remember an article on Fenner's site (maybe search wetwebmedia.com) and it suggested hypo would kill most of the bacteria, but what wasn't killed by the low salinity bounced back very quickly. I'd expect to a lot of WCs and the corresponding adjustment to SG. I see no reason why you couldn't use the ammonia neutralizers (Prime, Ammo-Lock, et al) with hypo. This stuff makes most ammonia tests useless and is deadly with copper., but I believe the little ammonia alert badges still work. This would be easier than constant WCs, IMO. I guess with hypo, the bigger the QT, the better (easier). I also think (haven't looked) that some ammonia test kits can measure actual harmful ammonia, most measure the ammonia that's been neutralized too.

 

[Amdeus]

hey you never did say why you dont like quick cure

 

[MrTuskfish]

hey you never did say why you dont like quick cure

I just agree with most "experts"; like Fenner, Goemans, Michael, and others just don't think formalin (formaldehyde) is an effective ich treatment, neither is the other ingredient, malachite green. I tried it once, years ago, and it did nothing positive. I've used copper, for almost all fish, since. I'm totally convinced that the only sure cures for ich are copper (tough, in your case), Quinine sulfate, hypo, or tank transfer method (no personal experience). I will get beaten for saying this: but if it came to a life or death situation, I would (and have) treat this fish with Cupramine at .25ppm. That level of copper could kill or cure it; so it isn't a suggestion, only food for thought. Please go with hypo or QS.

 

[jameskb]

I don't like this product, getting into the hobby it was the first thing I tried, it did nothing. It kills free floating ich only not any ich on the fish or encysted ich. This medication however does permanently color acrylic, plastic, and silicon a horrid shade of turquoise blue. This medication is useless, go hypo, go copper, or go UV sterilizer(my favorite if you have the money)

 

[LargeAngels]

Cupramine is a very affective copper treatment tolerated by many "copper sensitive" fish. I've treated all my flame angels, and other dwarfs, with no issues.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Cupramine is a very affective copper treatment tolerated by many "copper sensitive" fish. I've treated all my flame angels, and other dwarfs, with no issues.

Me too; but that sure goes against all the CW on the subject. Cupramine is very effective at levels lower than the recommended .50ppm. I also take several days to get to the level I want when treating copper-sensitive fish. This is one of those areas that what I've done, and what I say for general consumption, are often two different things. If someone recommended Cupramine at .50 for a Flame Angel, and the fish died, you know the copper would get blamed. IMO & IME, copper gets blamed for a lot of deaths it doesn't cause; simply because it is the last resort for badly infested fish. But, simply because I some credibility in LAs (and other sources) warning about Flames and copper, I'd suggest quinine sulfate for them. I know many hobbyists wouldn't use any copper on any Angel---even if it was copper or certain death.

 

[Amdeus]

Im actually trying out the quick cure. Within a couple hours all the spots on the fish have dropped off. Im going to run with the treatment for 2 weeks with 50% water changes every 3 days then start again with quick cure. Im also running temps at 82-83f

 

[LargeAngels]

Me too; but that sure goes against all the CW on the subject.

I would never treat dwarfs with other types of coppers. Only Cupramine. Cupramine is very different and much less toxic than other copper treatments.

 

[Mindflux]

Well it's marketed as an ICK cure, but lemme tell ya it worked wonders on Brooklynella. Formaldehyde rocks...

I'm not sure about it being mild. You are giving your fish an embalming fluid soak...

 

[Amdeus]

Well it's marketed as an ICK cure, but lemme tell ya it worked wonders on Brooklynella. Formaldehyde rocks...

I'm not sure about it being mild. You are giving your fish an embalming fluid soak...

yes sir, I'm trying to mount them as trophy fish.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I would never treat dwarfs with other types of coppers. Only Cupramine. Cupramine is very different and much less toxic than other copper treatments.

I wouldn't use any other cooper either, or any other test kit than one from the same mfg---SeaChem. SeaChem also has great phone tech support; a big help at times.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Well it's marketed as an ICK cure, but lemme tell ya it worked wonders on Brooklynella. Formaldehyde rocks...

I'm not sure about it being mild. You are giving your fish an embalming fluid soak...

There are countless products that don't work that are marketed as an ich cure. Formalin is (IMO) by far, the best cure for brooklynella. But, from all accounts I've read and my own experience, not an effective cure for ich.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Im actually trying out the quick cure. Within a couple hours all the spots on the fish have dropped off. Im going to run with the treatment for 2 weeks with 50% water changes every 3 days then start again with quick cure. Im also running temps at 82-83f

The white spots are not the actual parasite, they are buried well into the skin. Two weeks is not long enough for any method to cure ich; the dormant phase will re-emerge (X100) and you'll be worse off than when you started. Any attempt to cure ich must go for (IMO) at least 4 weeks. When doing WCs, of re-dose your medication. I'd do some real research on this parasite, here's a start:http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

 

[Amdeus]

wow that would be 4 weeks of non stop Zinc Free Malachite Green, Formalin instead of two weeks non stop. lol yes they will become trophy fish then

 

[cougaran]

hey quick question does will bio wheels still work in hypo?

I like hypo and use it frequently, a quick answer to your question is "yes". In my main i like to run one of the old style double whisper filters for the water purity and because I can have instant qt/hospital tank whenever i need one. What I do is take the cleanest bag from the dual whisper and wash it in a pail with tank water. When im done i have a single whisper that is dedicated to QT and i put the bag in there. No ammonia problems even with a significant bio load. I begin my hypo process and usually within 2 days im at 1.009. During this process I havent experienced any problem with ammonia spikes..I do like to get one of those ammonia badges from seachem just in case.

 

[MrTuskfish]

wow that would be 4 weeks of non stop Zinc Free Malachite Green, Formalin instead of two weeks non stop. lol yes they will become trophy fish then

Anything less will not stop the ich cycle. Regardless of treatment type, there are still forms of living ich that will emerge from dormant cysts. They can only be killed while free-swimming. If you research the life cycle of ich, this will be obvious. If this was my fish and I couldn't use Cupramine; I'd removethe formalin ASAP and treat with hypo or quinine sulfate. I just don't think there is much good info about using this stuff wit ich; because very few hobbyists do.