Thizzelle686
New member
Lets get some update pics of the 15k. I want to keep one ocean blue over my 25 gallon 21x18x16 but i have only seen one tank that is similar. PLEASE HELP
thoughts on kessil A150 Led...
- Thread starter Devaji108
- Start date
I have a 10k and 2 15k over my 125. I am going to get another 10k after christmas to balance the colors out. I LOVE the look of them. The shimmer on the walls and the sand bed are better than any MH I have ever owned both 150 watt and 250 watt. The coverage is good too. I could get away with the three I have if not for the center brace. The coloration is very good in the tank. The lighting seems to be softer on the eyes and not as focused as t5. I am overall very happy. I added my first two corals yesterday and so far they both opened up nicely. I really like the footprint of the light too, a little longer than a standard soda can. I too am waiting to hear from some of the people in this thread that have the light longer to see how they age and if they are still having growth.
Hi,
I'm looking to order a few of these to australia (there seems to be absolutely no local distributor yet) and there are a couple of things I'm sure an A150W owner could help me with
Thing the first:
Can someone show me the power supply for this unit? I understand the light has a cord that connects to a power supply ... but I can't find anything at all on these. They mention that the PSU can handle 240v/50hz in addition to US standard power, but again I can't find any photos or information on the outlet side of these. Does the cable that connects the PSU to the wall socket have its own socket on the PSU or is it moulded into the PSU itself? What kind of cable is it (kettle plug style, laptop style, etc) exactly?
Thing the second:
Did anyone order the goosenecks? These don't seem alarmingly expensive on their own but adding shipping to them makes them a bit expensive (eg ordering 5 plus freight = coulda bought 6 lights instead). Are they actually worth having (eg. are they stable, is the clamp up to holding them on a tank if they get bumped, is it long enough for you, etc)? Does anyone have the box they came in and is also kind enough to estimate the box size and weight?
Is anyone NOT happy with their lights? The only really outright negative impression I've seen in a lot (a lot) of googling is this guy on youtube, is there anyone else who is genuinely unhappy with them?
I'm looking to order a few of these to australia (there seems to be absolutely no local distributor yet) and there are a couple of things I'm sure an A150W owner could help me with
Thing the first:
Can someone show me the power supply for this unit? I understand the light has a cord that connects to a power supply ... but I can't find anything at all on these. They mention that the PSU can handle 240v/50hz in addition to US standard power, but again I can't find any photos or information on the outlet side of these. Does the cable that connects the PSU to the wall socket have its own socket on the PSU or is it moulded into the PSU itself? What kind of cable is it (kettle plug style, laptop style, etc) exactly?
Thing the second:
Did anyone order the goosenecks? These don't seem alarmingly expensive on their own but adding shipping to them makes them a bit expensive (eg ordering 5 plus freight = coulda bought 6 lights instead). Are they actually worth having (eg. are they stable, is the clamp up to holding them on a tank if they get bumped, is it long enough for you, etc)? Does anyone have the box they came in and is also kind enough to estimate the box size and weight?
Is anyone NOT happy with their lights? The only really outright negative impression I've seen in a lot (a lot) of googling is this guy on youtube, is there anyone else who is genuinely unhappy with them?
I'm surprised to see so many happy sounding customers here.
I searched high and low for technical specifications, anything stating exactly how much light is produced by these lights"¦nothing !
Lots of videos with sales pitch but no hard facts, I like facts.
I did see a video where it was stated that the dense matrix LED from a DiCon product called a fiber lamp had been adapted for the Kessil lamps.Eventually I found some specifications for the fiber lamp and it doesn't look good at all.
http://www.fiberlamp.com/products/fiber_lamp_fl2100.php
Note the 6500k cool white version is rated at 1100 lumens, with a power consumption of 36w that equates to 30 lumens per watt.
A 470 nm blue lamp is rated at 357 lumens or a little under 10 lumens per watt.
I'm assuming that the various colour temperature aquarium versions are just a mix of white and blue die's within the dense matrix package so the efficiency should be comparable to the fiber lamp.
If you consider a Cree XP-G or XM-L 6500k LED can deliver between 100-150 lumens per watt( actually a little more) and a 470nm Cree XP-E blue can be gotten with around 40 lumens per watt then these Kessil lights sound very inefficient!
No wonder there are no technical specifications available!
I've put these points to the UK rep for these lights a couple of times on a UK forum but he for some reason has so far chosen to abandon the threads where these points were raised..
I searched high and low for technical specifications, anything stating exactly how much light is produced by these lights"¦nothing !
Lots of videos with sales pitch but no hard facts, I like facts.
I did see a video where it was stated that the dense matrix LED from a DiCon product called a fiber lamp had been adapted for the Kessil lamps.Eventually I found some specifications for the fiber lamp and it doesn't look good at all.
http://www.fiberlamp.com/products/fiber_lamp_fl2100.php
Note the 6500k cool white version is rated at 1100 lumens, with a power consumption of 36w that equates to 30 lumens per watt.
A 470 nm blue lamp is rated at 357 lumens or a little under 10 lumens per watt.
I'm assuming that the various colour temperature aquarium versions are just a mix of white and blue die's within the dense matrix package so the efficiency should be comparable to the fiber lamp.
If you consider a Cree XP-G or XM-L 6500k LED can deliver between 100-150 lumens per watt( actually a little more) and a 470nm Cree XP-E blue can be gotten with around 40 lumens per watt then these Kessil lights sound very inefficient!
No wonder there are no technical specifications available!
I've put these points to the UK rep for these lights a couple of times on a UK forum but he for some reason has so far chosen to abandon the threads where these points were raised..
I saw a similar article - one thing I think might be worth bearing in mind -
They both have dense matrix LEDs but I think L/W (especially driving the whole unit just to use a fraction of what it can emit) might possibly drop off somewhat given that the unit is designed to work from a 24 bit palette and not just be 'a light' for a specific frequency.
There was one somewhat related official response (about PAR from the units) related over here:
This is kind of why I'm interested in them - if you take a look at their own SPD -
Then look at what is actually useful for growing marine organisms -
Then [url=http://s919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/redfishnc/LED%20TESTING/?start=all]look at what the super efficient CREE LEDs put out -
(eg)
That efficiency kinda seems good at throwing out light that is actually either not at all or only partly useful at photosynthesis?
Also, looking at the balance of the Kessil White SPD, and the amount of red in the Cree Whites, or even units that actually throw in a red bulb on purpose, then reading eg this
kinda maybe makes it look like .. maybe these Kessil guys might actually know what they are doing.
The A150W seems to be a specially binned version of the H150W - so one would assume that, if they wanted to, they could have thrown out a broader spectrum or more reddish light if it was actually a useful thing to do (as it is in hydroponics).
I'm not trying to shill them (I don't even own one or know anyone who does, I'm more trying to find out if they're even worth having) but this is what my googling has brought up so far on them.
FWIW the other thing I turned up recently was an endorsement from Bob Fenner for using the A150W to grow SPS in what seems like a surprisingly low light/tank size ratio.
Frick
AZ FRAG President
The plug is a three prong Kettle style that comes out of the universal power supply which is connects to the fixture.
Awesome, yeah, I literally just found a video of the unboxing (which I hadn't watched past about 20 seconds for annoying noises/camera movement but showed up all the time)
youtu.be/1HbcoqRu0m0?t=1m29s
Skimate - I typed out a long reply that got stuck in moderation (for all the links I guess), but, short version:
* The Fibrelight is an $850 computer controlled piece of gear which seems to have a 24 bit palette for generating whatever spectrum light. It shares the same LED design but as to its efficiency ... I'm not sure it compares straight up with the H150/A150s, probably very little of it is very good at generating any one specific colour. Would not surprise me if their dense LEDs don't do so well in that situation.
* The high PAR/efficiency ratings you see for the modern CREEs don't actually seem to match their capabilities in PUR (eg lots and lots of green/yellow/orange/red on their whites, extremely narrow blue bandwidth on their blue/royal blues), whereas if you look at what chlorophyll's peak absorption occurs at, vs what the A150Ws put out on the SPDs on their site, this seems to be a very close match.
* They aren't very "bright" lights but this isn't necessarily what is ideal in the first place - PUR wise and in terms of the absence of red light generated by their LEDs (which doesn't seem to be a good idea) they seem pretty solid to me. They do seem to make up for it in point intensity (hence the great caustic lines you see on youtube) and matching the ideal spectrum for growth. If you search wetwebmedia you will see Bob Fenner endorsing them for SPS and again making the point that "Apparent brightness is not the same as effective lumination".
I can see why you might reach the conclusion you did but from my own googling I have reached a different conclusion. I mean - I don't own any either - but I'm pretty sure a hydroponic light company has thought about this stuff maybe just a bit
Anyhow I'm about to take the plunge on ordering two for my 2' BTA tank (was going to get 5 or 6 but not knowing what the A350 will be - or if I will be that stoked with the A150s - is making me a bit nervous to buy that many for my 5' 95gal) so I'll be sure and let you know if they're some horrible disaster
youtu.be/1HbcoqRu0m0?t=1m29s
Skimate - I typed out a long reply that got stuck in moderation (for all the links I guess), but, short version:
* The Fibrelight is an $850 computer controlled piece of gear which seems to have a 24 bit palette for generating whatever spectrum light. It shares the same LED design but as to its efficiency ... I'm not sure it compares straight up with the H150/A150s, probably very little of it is very good at generating any one specific colour. Would not surprise me if their dense LEDs don't do so well in that situation.
* The high PAR/efficiency ratings you see for the modern CREEs don't actually seem to match their capabilities in PUR (eg lots and lots of green/yellow/orange/red on their whites, extremely narrow blue bandwidth on their blue/royal blues), whereas if you look at what chlorophyll's peak absorption occurs at, vs what the A150Ws put out on the SPDs on their site, this seems to be a very close match.
* They aren't very "bright" lights but this isn't necessarily what is ideal in the first place - PUR wise and in terms of the absence of red light generated by their LEDs (which doesn't seem to be a good idea) they seem pretty solid to me. They do seem to make up for it in point intensity (hence the great caustic lines you see on youtube) and matching the ideal spectrum for growth. If you search wetwebmedia you will see Bob Fenner endorsing them for SPS and again making the point that "Apparent brightness is not the same as effective lumination".
I can see why you might reach the conclusion you did but from my own googling I have reached a different conclusion. I mean - I don't own any either - but I'm pretty sure a hydroponic light company has thought about this stuff maybe just a bit
Anyhow I'm about to take the plunge on ordering two for my 2' BTA tank (was going to get 5 or 6 but not knowing what the A350 will be - or if I will be that stoked with the A150s - is making me a bit nervous to buy that many for my 5' 95gal) so I'll be sure and let you know if they're some horrible disaster
bboudreaux
New member
have to disagree
have to disagree
i am not a electrical engineer or any of the like nor am i affliated with kessil, but if what you are saying is true then all of my corals should be dead. i wasn't going to contribute to this thread, b/c i didn't want to just echo what everyone else has been saying. however, i can tell you these lights work. i have a 4ft 55g with 25g sump mixed reef. all of lps are growing but i think i would have to nuke my tank to kill them, but the sps started with growth tips within two weeks of going to these lights. the lights i had before were 4 54watt t-5 retrofit kit powered by geismenn ballast, and they kept the sps alive but had very little if any growth to mention. i do agree they are not as bright as the t-5, but i have the 15k version and plan to get one 10k to put in the middle. the sps consist of: 4" frag of plum crazy, 7" colony green milli, 3" frag of blue milli, 4" frag of tricolor valida, 2" frag of pink milli, 3" colony of some kind of green acro that has spread ten fold since the lights have been on, 5" colony of pocillapora (not sure of spelling but you know what i mean), 4" gluattus birdnest that is going off white tips all over, huge colony of blue ridge coral that has spread over an entire mag rock. i bought a mag rock with red planet all over it from a guy on our local reef forum, and when i went to the kessils i cut a 1" frag from the mother. since the lights have been on which is about 7mos now that frag has completely encrusted the frag plug and grown about 1.5" so i can say these lights work. you have to remember kessil is a big company that has been making lights for the horticultural industry for quite some time now. i think they may know what they are doing. i almost forgot to add that i almost bleached one of my chalice corals to death when the light first came into use (had to move it lower). the chalice has since recovered and is changing to a different color more green than red like before. if you read the sept/oct issue of coral magazine they discuss different types of led lights, and they had nothing but good things to say about the kessil. they also said that kessil designed this led array specifically for aquarium use. maybe i rambled on a bit but i can't stand when people dump on a product without giving it a proper chance to proof itself.
have to disagree
i am not a electrical engineer or any of the like nor am i affliated with kessil, but if what you are saying is true then all of my corals should be dead. i wasn't going to contribute to this thread, b/c i didn't want to just echo what everyone else has been saying. however, i can tell you these lights work. i have a 4ft 55g with 25g sump mixed reef. all of lps are growing but i think i would have to nuke my tank to kill them, but the sps started with growth tips within two weeks of going to these lights. the lights i had before were 4 54watt t-5 retrofit kit powered by geismenn ballast, and they kept the sps alive but had very little if any growth to mention. i do agree they are not as bright as the t-5, but i have the 15k version and plan to get one 10k to put in the middle. the sps consist of: 4" frag of plum crazy, 7" colony green milli, 3" frag of blue milli, 4" frag of tricolor valida, 2" frag of pink milli, 3" colony of some kind of green acro that has spread ten fold since the lights have been on, 5" colony of pocillapora (not sure of spelling but you know what i mean), 4" gluattus birdnest that is going off white tips all over, huge colony of blue ridge coral that has spread over an entire mag rock. i bought a mag rock with red planet all over it from a guy on our local reef forum, and when i went to the kessils i cut a 1" frag from the mother. since the lights have been on which is about 7mos now that frag has completely encrusted the frag plug and grown about 1.5" so i can say these lights work. you have to remember kessil is a big company that has been making lights for the horticultural industry for quite some time now. i think they may know what they are doing. i almost forgot to add that i almost bleached one of my chalice corals to death when the light first came into use (had to move it lower). the chalice has since recovered and is changing to a different color more green than red like before. if you read the sept/oct issue of coral magazine they discuss different types of led lights, and they had nothing but good things to say about the kessil. they also said that kessil designed this led array specifically for aquarium use. maybe i rambled on a bit but i can't stand when people dump on a product without giving it a proper chance to proof itself.
bboudreaux
New member
i also forgot to mention i have a green lta anenome that is on the bottom of my tank, and has not moved since the new lights have been on. as matter of fact it doesn't look like it has noticed any difference at all. i do like how the blue from the kessil makes the colors of the lta pop as well.
Colt what makes you think that although the Fiberlight and Kessil lights share the same dense matrix LED design that the Kessil would some how be more efficient?
I really don't understand why you say that Cree LED's efficiency and PUR capabilities are at odds but somehow the Kessil LED's match the requirements of chlorophyll better?
I'm guessing here but I think if you could find a spectrograph for a DiCon 6500k LED that it wouldn't look much different to a Cree 6500k .
I think the mistake you are making is comparing a spectrograph of a Kessil light containing multiple blue LED dies to each white LED to a spectrograph provided by Cree of just a single white LED.
Of coarse as a percentage of output the single white LED will seem to have far more red, green , orange, yellow in relation to blue than a white LED that is supplemented with six blue LED's.
Let me point you in the direction of the spectrographs provided by AI for their Sol white and sol blue light fixtures
http://aquaillumination.com/sol/performance.html
Both of the fixtures are using the same Cree XP-G white LED's but the Sol blue having a higher ratio of blue to white LED's produces less green, yellow etc.
Also notice how when using both blue and royal blue LED's the blue spike isn't exactly narrow. And seems to cover the absorbance peaks of chlorophyll very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chlorophyll_ab_spectra2.PNG
The blue peak provided by the Kessil seems to be mostly 470nm with a tiny little bit of something closer to 400nm thrown in, the vast proportion of the blue light being a narrow 470nm peak, very similar to the quoted 470nm that the blue Fiberlamp produces!
I really don't understand why you say that Cree LED's efficiency and PUR capabilities are at odds but somehow the Kessil LED's match the requirements of chlorophyll better?
I'm guessing here but I think if you could find a spectrograph for a DiCon 6500k LED that it wouldn't look much different to a Cree 6500k .
I think the mistake you are making is comparing a spectrograph of a Kessil light containing multiple blue LED dies to each white LED to a spectrograph provided by Cree of just a single white LED.
Of coarse as a percentage of output the single white LED will seem to have far more red, green , orange, yellow in relation to blue than a white LED that is supplemented with six blue LED's.
Let me point you in the direction of the spectrographs provided by AI for their Sol white and sol blue light fixtures
http://aquaillumination.com/sol/performance.html
Both of the fixtures are using the same Cree XP-G white LED's but the Sol blue having a higher ratio of blue to white LED's produces less green, yellow etc.
Also notice how when using both blue and royal blue LED's the blue spike isn't exactly narrow. And seems to cover the absorbance peaks of chlorophyll very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chlorophyll_ab_spectra2.PNG
The blue peak provided by the Kessil seems to be mostly 470nm with a tiny little bit of something closer to 400nm thrown in, the vast proportion of the blue light being a narrow 470nm peak, very similar to the quoted 470nm that the blue Fiberlamp produces!
Boudreaux, no what I'm saying wouldn't mean that all of your corals should be dead , just that you would have gotten more light per watt if you had bought lights containing Cree LED's.
Kessil haven't really been making lights for the horticultural industry, IMO they have just been suckering a lot of weed growers that smoke to much of their own stuff.
Kessil haven't really been making lights for the horticultural industry, IMO they have just been suckering a lot of weed growers that smoke to much of their own stuff.
It just doesn't strike me as an apples to apples comparison - the fibrelight isn't designed at all to generate light in any specific bandwidth, it seems - it's designed to match specific colours chosen on the controller. So comparing its generation of blues from a unit that contains only a small portion of blue diodes (while powering the whole unit/etc) to one that specifically generates blues only doesn't sound like it is quite ideal to compare. If anyone has an actual reading taken from the light we're talking about then feel free to link it, I'd be interested to see it myself.
About the spectrum of the Kessil - I seem to remember one of their reps claimed they have 5-9% under 400nm coming out of their dense LEDs.
Ah here it is ... hrrm. How to link:
(reef 2 reef) forums/marine-depot/70443-light-emitting-diodes-lights-ecotech-kessil.html#post783206
I'm switching between tabs looking at your AI Sol figures, the figures measured by a reefcentral member here:
(reefcentral) /forums/showthread.php?t=2017939
and the SPDs shown for the A150s on Kessil's site.
I don't see them as remotely the same. Not even a little bit. There is one particular one that matches the chlorophyll absorption graphs I'm seeing particularly well out of the three, while avoiding lower colour temperatures and particularly red very well, and I think you can probably guess what it is.
About the spectrum of the Kessil - I seem to remember one of their reps claimed they have 5-9% under 400nm coming out of their dense LEDs.
Ah here it is ... hrrm. How to link:
(reef 2 reef) forums/marine-depot/70443-light-emitting-diodes-lights-ecotech-kessil.html#post783206
I'm switching between tabs looking at your AI Sol figures, the figures measured by a reefcentral member here:
(reefcentral) /forums/showthread.php?t=2017939
and the SPDs shown for the A150s on Kessil's site.
I don't see them as remotely the same. Not even a little bit. There is one particular one that matches the chlorophyll absorption graphs I'm seeing particularly well out of the three, while avoiding lower colour temperatures and particularly red very well, and I think you can probably guess what it is.
bboudreaux
New member
i really couldn't care less about all of technical aspects you are stating. if you want to find out buy one and put some high light sps in there. i promise you that you will not be disappointed. you have to buy one and use to speak as to whether it works or not. we can sit here and argue about led arrays, lumens, color spectrum, etc..., but i have the real proof in the puddin. i have seen them work. i have a piece that i bought from a local reef store they called plum crazy. now i don't know what species it really is, but the guy said these are high light corals. like i said before under t-5s i had no growth out of it for like 4mos. two weeks after it had been under the kessils i had white growth tips, and it has grown maybe 2" in a little over 6.5 mos. so they may not look like it but they grow corals trust me. i only wish i had the camera i just got for christmas before so i could have documented my growth.
bboudreaux
New member
i would like someone to explain the success i'm having with these lights if they are what you say they are. i doubt that company got where they are by just selling to weed growers.
Colt the efficiency figures I posted for the Fiberlight were for the all 470nm blue and all 6500k white versions not for those containing multiple coloured dies.
It was easier to work out the efficiency that way "¦but I don't see how it would have been a problem if I were getting my figures from a RGB version"¦the aquarium versions have dies of at least two colours.
It was easier to work out the efficiency that way "¦but I don't see how it would have been a problem if I were getting my figures from a RGB version"¦the aquarium versions have dies of at least two colours.
Skimate
I have no technical data to prove or disprove your theory. However because the platform was developed from another lamp doesn't mean they share the same specs. The LEDS cree produces are based on earlier generation LEDS. Those early LEDS weren't nearly as efficient as they are now yet they are "packaged" the same. Perhaps Kessil has greatly increased the light output from their dense-matrix led thru R&D just as cree has with its diodes.
While Kessil may be a new company name they are owned and operated by DiCon. I don't think a large corporation is going to open an international subsidiary to sell bunk lights to potheads. You may be correct but that doesn't change the fact that you have no evidence of your position either.
From my personal experience I replaced a 150W MH+ (2) 65w PC with one Kessil and have noticed no negative effects on my corals. I bought it to test the fixture for a future upgrade because I was skeptical of the light but really liked the concept. I couldn't be more pleased.
Just my $.02
PS: If the light wasn't growing pot, potheads wouldn't be buying them.
I have no technical data to prove or disprove your theory. However because the platform was developed from another lamp doesn't mean they share the same specs. The LEDS cree produces are based on earlier generation LEDS. Those early LEDS weren't nearly as efficient as they are now yet they are "packaged" the same. Perhaps Kessil has greatly increased the light output from their dense-matrix led thru R&D just as cree has with its diodes.
While Kessil may be a new company name they are owned and operated by DiCon. I don't think a large corporation is going to open an international subsidiary to sell bunk lights to potheads. You may be correct but that doesn't change the fact that you have no evidence of your position either.
From my personal experience I replaced a 150W MH+ (2) 65w PC with one Kessil and have noticed no negative effects on my corals. I bought it to test the fixture for a future upgrade because I was skeptical of the light but really liked the concept. I couldn't be more pleased.
Just my $.02
PS: If the light wasn't growing pot, potheads wouldn't be buying them.
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Boudreaux, I'm sorry but there is no way that I am going to spend hundreds of £'s on a light for which there are no specifications stating the amount of light generated.
As for the company not being able to get where they are selling to weed growers"¦ do you know how much weed costs!? Have any ideal of the size of the industry selling equipment to weed growers? it's a big market.
As for the company not being able to get where they are selling to weed growers"¦ do you know how much weed costs!? Have any ideal of the size of the industry selling equipment to weed growers? it's a big market.
Jerpa, I'm glad your happy with your purchase, honestly I am.
Cree have made leaps and bounds in efficiency but you are wrong to say that each new more efficient generation has used the same package, nothing could be further from the truth.
The Kessil light however does use the same dense matrix LED package as the Fiberlamp.
You say that DiCon wouldn't start a subsidiary to sell lights to pot heads but who else do you think buys 36watt plant growing light, sugar cane farmers!?
As for no evidence, do a search for online shops selling Kessil grow lights, see what sort of outlets you find then ask yourself what sort of farmers use grow tents and carbon filters so the neighbours don't see the bright lights or smell the smells.
Cree have made leaps and bounds in efficiency but you are wrong to say that each new more efficient generation has used the same package, nothing could be further from the truth.
The Kessil light however does use the same dense matrix LED package as the Fiberlamp.
You say that DiCon wouldn't start a subsidiary to sell lights to pot heads but who else do you think buys 36watt plant growing light, sugar cane farmers!?
As for no evidence, do a search for online shops selling Kessil grow lights, see what sort of outlets you find then ask yourself what sort of farmers use grow tents and carbon filters so the neighbours don't see the bright lights or smell the smells.
Again, I don't think it's a valid comparison at all - the Fibrelight is primarily designed with the USP of being completely colour tune-able to a 24bit rbg palette. You might as well pick any DiCon product from some obscure out-of-spec spectrum and use it to make a point? I am sure they make something worse at generating blue light per watt you could pick.
I seem to remember (might have been on the 3reef writeup of the company) that something like 40% of production is suitable to the A150 line (as opposed to H150s or junk) at all, so even between two "identical" fittings as the H150 and A150 I think you would probably see considerable variation in performance.
FTFY?
