Thoughts on Sump System

[cbm369]

Early design for the Sump System for my upcoming 300g in wall build.

The small cube tank is something I already have & thought of using it as my skimmer section. The 125g, is a standard size 72 x 18.

I haven't decided on filter socks or not, but the design has them incorporated into it, in case I do decide to use them.

Thoughts, suggestions?


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[RocketEngineer]

You would be better off having the cube as the refugium. Also, you would do better having the refugium fed from the return pump instead of trying to divert the drains. Doing this will also mean you have much less flow coming out of the cube which will make it easier.

The bubble trap/rock would be unnecessary if the skimmer was now part of the sump itself.

 

[cbm369]

You would be better off having the cube as the refugium. Also, you would do better having the refugium fed from the return pump instead of trying to divert the drains. Doing this will also mean you have much less flow coming out of the cube which will make it easier.

The bubble trap/rock would be unnecessary if the skimmer was now part of the sump itself.

The pic doesn't show it, but the reason using the cube like that is; it is already drilled (6 holes for a closed loop), so flow shouldn't be a problem, i wouldn't be diverting much flow into the fuge, just a bit of "dirty" water coming off a wye with a shut off & it will have it's own powerhead for water movement.
As stated, this is early design though, i will play around with some designs setup like you mentioned.

Thanks for the input.

 

[RocketEngineer]

To divert water to the refugium you would need to add a valve restricting the drain line. Unless you are running a Herbie or a BeanAnimal drain setup, this restriction is a concern as a snail or fish could partially block that line at the valve and cause issues.

Why not run it off the return pump instead? Mine doesn't have a powerhead and there is plenty of flow. The idea isn't to blast water though the refugium, just keep it supplied with the same kind of water that's in the display.

 

[cbm369]

To divert water to the refugium you would need to add a valve restricting the drain line. Unless you are running a Herbie or a BeanAnimal drain setup, this restriction is a concern as a snail or fish could partially block that line at the valve and cause issues.

Why not run it off the return pump instead? Mine doesn't have a powerhead and there is plenty of flow. The idea isn't to blast water though the refugium, just keep it supplied with the same kind of water that's in the display.

No major reason other than I have always used "dirty" water to feed the fuge. It's not a must have, guess old habits die hard...

The drain clog issue: 2 things:
1. If I do a drain divert, I would have a shut off before the wye (that would always be wide open in normal operation), this would allow removal/cleanout of a clog.
2. The DT is plumbed for a closed loop and has 2 corner overflows as well. I'm leaning towards using both systems to have plenty of water movement without having to use any circulators in the DT. (I could also tee off some drain from this to go the the fuge.

In process of starting house remodel, still 2-3 months away from starting the in wall build. Starting early, design wise, to "brainstorm" with others on various ideas so I can have set plans ready when the time comes to start the build.

 

[ca1ore]

Assuming I interpret it correctly, that design would make me very nervous. You are asking the Iwaki pump to 'match' the drains, and it's all going through a gate-valve constrained single output? I wouldn't do that. You should, at the very least, have a second way to move water between the two tanks - maybe just a large diameter straight pipe between the cube and the first section of the bigger sump.

Not a big fan of the PoR (pile-of-rocks) in the sump. Doubt your tank will need additional biofiltration, so will just act as a major nutrient sink. If you want some rocks for pods, a few in the refugium will suffice.

You can divert water from the drain to a fuge without constraining the main pipe; I did it that way for years. I can take a picture if you wish.

 

[cbm369]

Assuming I interpret it correctly, that design would make me very nervous. You are asking the Iwaki pump to 'match' the drains, and it's all going through a gate-valve constrained single output? I wouldn't do that. You should, at the very least, have a second way to move water between the two tanks - maybe just a large diameter straight pipe between the cube and the first section of the bigger sump.

Not a big fan of the PoR (pile-of-rocks) in the sump. Doubt your tank will need additional biofiltration, so will just act as a major nutrient sink. If you want some rocks for pods, a few in the refugium will suffice.

You can divert water from the drain to a fuge without constraining the main pipe; I did it that way for years. I can take a picture if you wish.

The cube that the skimmer would be in is a spare tank I already have. It is already drilled for a closed loop system (6 holes, 4- 1.5" + 2- 1.75"). The diagram doesn't show it, but the top three holes would have a short section of pipe to "gravity" flow into the 125g. (this is more for a power outage overflow into the cube), but having enough flow out of the cube shouldn't be an issue. Also, the Iwaki (70RLT) pump is what is recommended by the skimmer mfg. Having the gate valve output is how it is already built by the mfg. ( I would just add a short section of pipe to extend over the edge of the 125).

As far as the Iwaki matching the drains, wouldn't my return pump dictate the flow through the drains? (no decision on type, yet)

Also, how would the PoR be an additional nutrient sink if the water supplied is out of the skimmer? How is putting them into the fuge any different?

 

[ca1ore]

As far as the Iwaki matching the drains, wouldn't my return pump dictate the flow through the drains? (no decision on type, yet)

Also, how would the PoR be an additional nutrient sink if the water supplied is out of the skimmer? How is putting them into the fuge any different?

Your main return pump will dictate the flow through the drains, yes, but the Iwaki will determine how water moves between the two sumps. That you intend three pipes between the two sumps solves the potential overflow problem, but you will still need to make sure that the Iwaki doesn't move water out of the cube faster than the drains are moving it in, or the cube will drain down. 70RLt moves 1,500 gph, so you are going to need a main return pump that moves at least that much (after accounting for head loss).

The way you have your PoR indicated in the drawing suggests a taller pile that will have high flow through it. Thus it will act as a detritus trap (even if you use socks). Placing a few rocks on the bottom of the refugium is a very different proposition.

Just remember the 5th rule of reefing: the more complicated something is, the greater the chance of a failure.

 

[cbm369]

Just remember the 5th rule of reefing: the more complicated something is, the greater the chance of a failure.

I like that one, I tend to over think, over complicate things anyway....lol

What are the 1st four rules?
(my guesses)

1. Tank is never big enough
2. I can keep this fish/coral/invert...no matter what others say
3. I have $$$ for this project, should be enough to do it
4. Triple the above amount and it might be close

:spin3:


Again, thanks for the input!

 

[ca1ore]

What are the 1st four rules?

:lol: Dunno, just didn't seem like that one ought to be first ...... Certainly 'nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank' is #1; maybe 'the fish that jumps onto the carpet will always be your favorite' or 'your favorite frag will always be the one that falls inside the rockwork where you can't reach it'.

 

[cbm369]

Sump design #2

Sump design #2

After input on my first design, here is design #2:

Thoughts, suggestions?


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