Tiny refugium- Should I bother?

[Newreeflady]

Is this not worth the efforts and tank space? I don't have a lot of space to give it (have a 20g tall sump in the works, and my skimmer has a 9x9" footprint and the return pump has an 7x5" footprint.)

The section for the refugium would only be about 6" by 12" of surface area, and the system total water volume is probably going to be about 60 gallons (56g tank, rock, sump.)

I could just throw my carbon reactor in the area allotted for this, and it would give me a bit more arm room. But, if having even a tiny refuge is worth it, then I'll do it.

Has anyone proof that there is a size cutoff, or that this is not worth it? Experienced only please.

Thanks!
angela

 

[troyman]

i wouldnt

 

[Mr. Right]

I have a standard 20 gallon sump as well with a similar sized fuge. I know that it is not a full functioning fuge but I mainly use it to hold a DSB and cheato, so it is functioning to some degree. I do have a decent pod population that it holds also. I did just add a feather duster rock in it and plan to add bristle worms, and other beneficial fuge inhabitants.

IMO, I think it is worth having for the diversity in natural filtration. Not to mention having a home for my cheato. Before I had it just in my sump and sometimes it would find ways to interrupt my pumps (skimmer, return, ext).

 

[Guygettnby]

i think having any size fuge is better then no fuge at all. is there any way you could change the size of your sump or is that what your stuck with?

 

[Henry Bowman]

I'd put cheato in there for sure. I vote yes. I would NOT run my tank without a fuge / cheato in the sump. Personally believe that it is worth every bit of the space used.

 

[TonyV]

Yes do it. My refugium is not very large either. In fact, it's the second chamber over from my skimmer which then feeds thru a bubble trap and into my return pump section. My Cheato tumbles nicely and I have a tank full of mysis sized pods.

My Cheato tumbles in an area 4.25" x 13.5" x 8.5".

 

[Newreeflady]

Thanks for the input.

As to the sump size, The area under my stand will be fairly large, but not large enough to accomodate a 30" long tank:/ It is 27 x 24" total. Unless I build something myself, the 20g makes the most sense, and I'll use the remaining 12" in the back to hold a 10g water top off reservoir and calcium dosing unit.

I had tried some chaeto in a tiny area before (smaller than I have described) and it crashed. It did not tumble, though. I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to get it to tumble- should there be a powerhead?

Good point on the pod house as well.

Thanks,
Angela

 

[rbnice1]

Mine dosent tumble. I just turn it with some tongs once a week.

 

[TonyV]

I keep it small and the water flowing over the divider from the skimmer chamber keeps it tumbling. If it doesn't tumble it doesn't kill it. Just flip it over with some tongs so that it gets light on all sides. You do have a light on it right? 6500-6700K?

 

[Newreeflady]

So you suggest water to skimmer, then to refuge, then return, yes? I was under the impression that since the refuge should have lower flow than the skimmer area, that the refuge was divided with the skimmer & refuge on opposite ends of sump, fed by a split drain line. Then the return, in the middle, is fed from both the refuge and skimmer, but at different rates.

I was running 2 x 9w power compact fixture with daylight spec.

thoughts?
Thanks,
Angela

 

[floydie83]

nope dont waste time

 

[TonyV]

There are many ways to design a sump/refugium. I was just limited in space. The return in the middle as you propose is just fine. I am keeping mine simple and using it more for phosphate extraction as opposed to a true refugium with a mud like substrate and low flow. Although I would consider my spill-over from my skimmer section to be quite low flow.

Here is my design. my Cheato is right next to the skimmer with a few piece of live rock rubble. I am using a Bubble Magus NAC6A skimmer and a Maxi-Jet 1100 return pump and I couldn't be happier. I get 0 bubbles entering my display tank and my water conditions are pristine (at least in my eyes).

 

[KafudaFish]

Yes go for it. You can put quite a bit of cheato in a 6 x 12 space. Or you could always do a dual sump where you have eggcrate on the bottom 4 inches (vertical) with an eggcrate top (horizontal) with some rubble and your cheato on top.

You would get nutrient export from the cheato, biological filtration from the rubble, and some mechanical filtration from the fether dusters and worms that inhabit the darker zone. Also you would have an additional live food source with the pods.

 

[Bzar]

ime if the chaeto fuge isn't the size of at least 10% your water volume it's really only good for pods and extra filtration.....not nutrient exporting.

or you could use the space for a cryptic fuge (basically just an area with live rock / rubble unlit....still good for pods) and go with carbon nutrient exporting with biopellets, zeo, etc. in a reactor hung some place in the stand.

 

[Newreeflady]

After thinking about all of your responses, and having some concern about crowding the area with live rock and chaeto that I annoyingly have to turn every day, I think I'm leaning toward the idea of keeping it chaeto free and having it for pods- so, just rock rubble and perhaps some feather dusters, etc, like has been suggested.

1) Should there be sand?
2) What qty of flow is correct?
3) Should this area be fed directly from the drain, or from the skimmer effluent?
4) How frequently do I need to go in and move around the rock or vacuum detritus from the bottom of this area? Or, is there a creature or many that I should be putting in to keep the area turned over and cleaned?

Thanks so much guys!
Angela

 

[AquaBison]

1) Should there be sand? Yes, I would use a DSB. 5 - 7 in.
2) What qty of flow is correct? No clue on numbers, but whatever seems to work should be fine.
3) Should this area be fed directly from the drain, or from the skimmer effluent? Hmmm... not the slightest idea.
4) How frequently do I need to go in and move around the rock or vacuum detritus from the bottom of this area? Or, is there a creature or many that I should be putting in to keep the area turned over and cleaned? Bristle worms can do the job getting the sand moved. But, if there is a enouh flow, I imagine it would be fine.

Answers in red, but I'm no expert by any means.

 

[Newreeflady]

Bison, I don't mean to be rude. But, without any references or known experience with these methods, I would prefer to hear from those who have experience with refugia of this size.

Anyone else? ^^

Thx,
-A

 

[d0ughb0y]

nope dont waste time

I agree. unless you are up for additional maintenance work for little return, I don't think it is feasible cost benefit wise. But if you are looking for something to do to keep you busy, sure why not. more often than not, it will be neglected, and will just be a trap for detritus. I once got a free ball of chaeto, and I think there was just as much crap in there as there are chaeto. most fuge I see has (unwanted) algae growing in the sump. just weigh the pros and cons, its not all pros.

 

[RRaider]

Bison, I don't mean to be rude. But, without any references or known experience with these methods, I would prefer to hear from those who have experience with refugia of this size.

Anyone else? ^^

Thx,
-A

Lots of people have weighed in here with all kinds of opinions, some of them based on nothing but speculation imo. Why single him out? Just take his opinion for what it's worth and move on.

I have a 20 tall sump on a 2 year old sps dt and know what has worked for me, but I'm not an expert either, so I'll let you choose from other people's answers.

 

[Newreeflady]

Lots of people have weighed in here with all kinds of opinions, some of them based on nothing but speculation imo. Why single him out? Just take his opinion for what it's worth and move on.

Experience in the Hobby
6 years FW, 4 months SW

That is why^^. IMO we all need to take a step back- this isn't a run to answer questions even when you have no experience with a subject. If he had more info in his profile about his system, or if he even mentioned that he had a refugium, then I might not have mentioned it. Let's not turn this into a bigger deal than it is.


regards,
-A