To medicate or not that is the question.

[asmodyus]

So I have successively ran a 65 to 120 gallon reef tank for a year now in that year I did not quarantined any fish until I got ick about 6 months ago. Then I went ahead and still added more fish from some local reefers, and a BT Trigger, and Mandarin form LFS, and nothing happened. Luckily I got no more ick outbreaks. Then I got a yellow eyed kole from a fellow reefer and decided I now have some nice fish let go ahead and do Quarantine and Quarantined him with no meds for 5 weeks nothing happened and he was the first in my new 120.

So now that I have upgraded to my 120 I am going to Quarantine my fish. So I got two fish one Red Seas Sail Fin tang from a place with no meds and a Fairy Wrasse from a place that ran meds both places had fish for week or more.

So I put the Fairy Wrasse in my Larger QT that had live rock since he was already medicated and the sail fin in my smaller QT than was barren just PVC but still no meds. Watched the Sail fin for week ate looked healthy transferred him over to the Larger QT with the Fairy Wrasse and dies 2 days later after a fan went out and raised the temps from 79 to 86 got stuck to the HOB Filter not sure if this is what killed him. Week later just this morning the fairy wrasse which the hole time was healthy no other tank temp crashes or anything just passed found him stuck to the HOB filer again thinking the HOB filter is killing my fish.

Obviously both fished died from no visible aliments and was not medicated for the reason that everyone saying no meds unless there is signs, but I am wonder if I ran meds anyways would these 2 fish be still alive? Now I have 5 more fish in a QT that I had for a week, two Anthias which develop some kind of cloudy eye and the 3 blue Chromis that seem fine so far everybody is eating but tomorrow I am buying copper and Prazipro and will be medicating the fish.

So the question is always medicated fish regardless if they are healthy are not or do what I did and not meditate the fish and lose some invisible aliments at least to my eye.

 

[magnoliarichj]

I do not medicate or quarantine. Fish ever. I feed this food and that's it. I recently go a blue tang. Had no ick at the store. Brought it home ick with in two days. 2 weeks later no ick at all. I did nothing but feed this food and never have any issues.

 

[Reefpilot11]

My blue hippo literally eats pieces of garlic, that cured the ich within a few days.

 

[hmspradlin]

I'm just setting up my 90 and intend on qt ing. For many reasons. In this hobby you can spend as much as you want, as you can with any hobby. I would rather medicate a 10 gal than a 90 when it comes to sickness. Yet alone I don't want a $10 fish taking out established tank down the road and loose hundreds of $$. I'm in the same boat with you, I'm unsure of whether or not to pretreat regardless of signs. I will probably do a 12 day tank transfer along with medicine.

 

[rfalvey89]

Vitamin A+...a nice kick starter for cleaning ich. After a few months the fishes blood stream is filled with vitamin-A , ich stops attaching itself to the flesh...at least this is the premise behind it. I would QT everything with copper.

 

[asmodyus]

Okay need help came home all the fish are covered in spots got some got the Copper Power prazipor to dose tank. So my dumb butt goes and doses the tank come back with the get and now I don't knoe if I used the 1/2 Teaspoon was a whole teaspoon I did 2 doses and the spoon are sitting right next to the tank. So I used the api Test kit but I cannot really tell if its 2.0 or 4.0 Copper power says to use 1 once for 20 gallons and I have a 10 gallon QT so I am not sure if I overdose or not. What should I do?

 

[asmodyus]

Here is pictures if the fish

 

[LiquidCache]

Okay need help came home all the fish are covered in spots got some got the Copper Power prazipor to dose tank. So my dumb butt goes and doses the tank come back with the get and now I don't knoe if I used the 1/2 Teaspoon was a whole teaspoon I did 2 doses and the spoon are sitting right next to the tank. So I used the api Test kit but I cannot really tell if its 2.0 or 4.0 Copper power says to use 1 once for 20 gallons and I have a 10 gallon QT so I am not sure if I overdose or not. What should I do?

Grammatically I have no idea what this means, but follow the instructions. If I'm translating correctly something happened with the spoon and you overdosed? Just do a water change to lower the copper level to what you're shooting for in the qt. That looks like some bad ich.

 

[asmodyus]

Grammatically I have no idea what this means, but follow the instructions. If I'm translating correctly something happened with the spoon and you overdosed? Just do a water change to lower the copper level to what you're shooting for in the qt. That looks like some bad ich.

Wow I was really tired last night and I apologize for the horrible Grammer. But yeah pretty much.

 

[asmodyus]

Well QT tank crashed and killed off most of the fish today. Luckily I still had my 20 gallon long which is an established tank about 4 months old now. I FW Dipped the reaming last two fish, if they make it the next day or so I will be removing any inverts and corals that are in the 20L and keep the live rock in there (reason why my QT crashed I think is not enough areas for the Beneficial Bacteria all the media replace with non carbon media that was a day so old when I add the copper thus causing it to crash) Will in very small doses add copper to the tank so I don't have a massive die of from the LV rock and cause another mini Crash.

But all said and down I lost a lot of fish these last to weeks Due tonot medicating and waiting till the last minute or no medication at all and lost fish because of it. But hey this was my first attempt at really trying to Do a QT and know now what I need to do if I cannot make 50% water changes eveyday.

 

[snake1]

Go talk to faois and buy the special flake food you can leave the fish in the tank and cure them of ich instead of killing them.... Its three bucks a bag

 

[snake1]

Check with faois its called metro.... I know a few different reefers that use this food all with 100% positive results including myself and I didn't have to stress out my fish by catching them and throwing them in a qt tank just my two cents....

 

[asmodyus]

Well everything was going great today last two fish were doing well they seemed to be acclimating to the 20 gallon levels seemed great. Tonight before I went to bed I administrated Prazipro to the tank. Woke up just now decided to check on the fish and the Anthias literately just died in front of my eye. Not sure what happened and if it was the prazipro or the fish could not take it or just died from the whole crash. This had to be one of these worst weeks of my life in this hobby that I have being doing for a year never lost these many fish. So I am down to the last survive a Reef Blue Chromis not sure what to do but wait couple more days and then start adding the copper hopefully the ICH will stay down till than

All I can say is I am very upset but I guess it was a learning experience, and one I will have to do better at next time, and have a better quarantine setup to runs meds, or maybe just buy fish from local reefers. That way I know they are healthy and I can run just QT tank without the meds. Well as for the meds basically started this whole killing spree that was triggered by the Ich. Which the Ich probably would have killed them if I did not try to treat them. But for now I guess I will try my hardest to keep this last fish alive. As for my 10 gallon I Got filter media soaking in the 120 gallon and ready to start this whole process again.

 

[oldsaint]

IMO, your biggest concern and what causes the most death in a QT is ammonia. The bio needs to be well established and the NH3 check very frequently. You also need to be prepared to do frequent waters changes, possibly needing to change 50%+ a day.

 

[asmodyus]

IMO, your biggest concern and what causes the most death in a QT is ammonia. The bio needs to be well established and the NH3 check very frequently. You also need to be prepared to do frequent waters changes, possibly needing to change 50%+ a day.

Yeah the issue for me was I did more than a 50% water change the day after the ammonia spike but it was so high that I basically need to have done a 100% water change. I was just not prepared for such a large spike do to the lack of sufficient bio. But I leanered and I cleaned out my 10 gallon and getting is setup have some media soaking in the 120 for stuff and after what happens with this last remaining fish I will start the whole cycle again. Still unsure on the whole medicate right away or not at least with copper Prazipro is little safer and probably can medicate right away.

 

[Postal]

Ugh. Lots of bad advice on this thread.

NLS pellets are a great food. It doesn't cure ich.
Feeding garlic might improve appetite or improve the immune system (probably not). It does not cure ich.
Prazipro does not cure ich.
Metro and other medicated foods can help, especially with secondary infections. However, I doubt that FAOIS is claiming that it completely cures ich.

Some of the things above might be helpful in the sense that a well-fed, healthy fish is more likely to fight off a serious ich infection. However, once ich is in your system it will always be there unless you treat all the fish appropriately (hypo-salinity, copper, or tank transfer method) and leave your display fallow for at least 8 weeks. Other treatments appear to work because the level of ich is reduced, but it is not eradicated. The fish will still have low levels of ich, usually hidden out of sight in the gills.
A lot of people don't QT and don't have issues. However, they are just lucky. Or their systems are stable enough that the fish live with ich without issue. In those circumstances, any stressors added to the system can cause another outbreak.

The only way to guarantee you keep ich or other maladies from your display tank is to QT your fish. It takes time and effort, but if done correctly it gives you more peace of mind. Nothing "wrong" about not QT'ing either as long as you are willing to risk all the rest of your livestock to save some time. I'll be the first to admit that I don't QT everything, but I know the risks. I also attempt to mitigate those risks by buying fish from only the very, very limited number of LFS that I trust to treat their fish and not sell those that are ill.

And BTW, the HOB did not kill your fish. The fish was likely so weak that it floated into the HOB intake and did not have enough strength left to swim away.

 

[asmodyus]

Ugh. Lots of bad advice on this thread.

NLS pellets are a great food. It doesn't cure ich.
Feeding garlic might improve appetite or improve the immune system (probably not). It does not cure ich.
Prazipro does not cure ich.
Metro and other medicated foods can help, especially with secondary infections. However, I doubt that FAOIS is claiming that it completely cures ich.

Some of the things above might be helpful in the sense that a well-fed, healthy fish is more likely to fight off a serious ich infection. However, once ich is in your system it will always be there unless you treat all the fish appropriately (hypo-salinity, copper, or tank transfer method) and leave your display fallow for at least 8 weeks. Other treatments appear to work because the level of ich is reduced, but it is not eradicated. The fish will still have low levels of ich, usually hidden out of sight in the gills.
A lot of people don't QT and don't have issues. However, they are just lucky. Or their systems are stable enough that the fish live with ich without issue. In those circumstances, any stressors added to the system can cause another outbreak.

The only way to guarantee you keep ich or other maladies from your display tank is to QT your fish. It takes time and effort, but if done correctly it gives you more peace of mind. Nothing "wrong" about not QT'ing either as long as you are willing to risk all the rest of your livestock to save some time. I'll be the first to admit that I don't QT everything, but I know the risks. I also attempt to mitigate those risks by buying fish from only the very, very limited number of LFS that I trust to treat their fish and not sell those that are ill.

And BTW, the HOB did not kill your fish. The fish was likely so weak that it floated into the HOB intake and did not have enough strength left to swim away.

Thanks yeah I know what I did wrong was to many fish in a 10 gallon and not enough bio filtering when copper was activated. I've quarantined a Yellow Eye, midas Blenny and a Blue throat but I was lucky non of them got ick in the 4 to 5 weeks I had them QT and did not have to use copper. This was the first time I used copper and was unprepared for the reaction I got. And yes I know prazipro does not cure ICH but one of the Anthias had moving things in its eye and that why I used it but it is what it is I have one fish left and tomorrow. I will start my low dose ramping and see what happens.

 

[snake1]

Ugh. Lots of bad advice on this thread.

NLS pellets are a great food. It doesn't cure ich.
Feeding garlic might improve appetite or improve the immune system (probably not). It does not cure ich.
Prazipro does not cure ich.
Metro and other medicated foods can help, especially with secondary infections. However, I doubt that FAOIS is claiming that it completely cures ich.

Some of the things above might be helpful in the sense that a well-fed, healthy fish is more likely to fight off a serious ich infection. However, once ich is in your system it will always be there unless you treat all the fish appropriately (hypo-salinity, copper, or tank transfer method) and leave your display fallow for at least 8 weeks. Other treatments appear to work because the level of ich is reduced, but it is not eradicated. The fish will still have low levels of ich, usually hidden out of sight in the gills.
A lot of people don't QT and don't have issues. However, they are just lucky. Or their systems are stable enough that the fish live with ich without issue. In those circumstances, any stressors added to the system can cause another outbreak.

The only way to guarantee you keep ich or other maladies from your display tank is to QT your fish. It takes time and effort, but if done correctly it gives you more peace of mind. Nothing "wrong" about not QT'ing either as long as you are willing to risk all the rest of your livestock to save some time. I'll be the first to admit that I don't QT everything, but I know the risks. I also attempt to mitigate those risks by buying fish from only the very, very limited number of LFS that I trust to treat their fish and not sell those that are ill.

And BTW, the HOB did not kill your fish. The fish was likely so weak that it floated into the HOB intake and did not have enough strength left to swim away.

You are correct faois told me it would not cure ich....my mistake for labeling it as a cure....but 9 months later and all 10 of my fish are alive ,fat and happy...

 

[Sonicboom]

if you can add an airstone to the QT it will help. I wish i would have showed you my QT setup when you were over, but i run an airpump with 4 outlets (it's overkill for a 10 g but i already had it..) you will need to monitor for ammonia almost daily and wc as much. I use ammolock to help with ammonia if i just medicated the qt and don't want to dump it with a wc but it depletes the oxygen which is where the air pump comes in. I also medicate every fish coming in with Furan 2 and Prazipro, then a freshwater dip before going into the DT.

 

[ichthyman]

The information from oldsaint and Postal, especially about the medicated food, is correct.