Top down shots

[PatrikD]

This is a very inspiring thread. Thank you Ed for sharing your experience.
How would you describe the difference to the eye between your two fixtures, one in overdrive and one with ordinary power supply?

I'm about to go from 2xKessil 2xt5 blue+ coral+ to ATI sunpower 8xt5 4 blue+ and 4 coral+.

Tank is 65 g. Mostly acropora.

 

[Big E]

Agreed. Too often ppl dose these and get N03 to zero but fail to realize that to reduce P04, there must be N03 for it to consume. So they see N03 dropping but not P04 so they continually up the dose and get no real results until they up the dose so high the results become negative.

Yup, that's exactly what happens.......I grew tired of telling people they need nowhere near the amount that they're dosing. Once the nitrates are in the ballpark range you have to cut the dose in half. Then from there is when you tweek to find your "steady state".............tweeeking can take several months and you need patience for evaluations.

This is a very inspiring thread. Thank you Ed for sharing your experience.
How would you describe the difference to the eye between your two fixtures, one in overdrive and one with ordinary power supply?

Thanks! The overall ambience from one tank to the other looks the same, but the coral color/growth has always been better in my display. This may be in part due to the nutrient level differences, but until I can prove this out I'm going to stick with the over driven bulbs on my display.

I see this no differently than how the 400w Radiums overdriven produce better colors/growth, although your eyes can see more of a whitish look on the overdriven bulbs in this case.

 

[Big E]

Here's an example why I try not to force or chase nutrient numbers. I mentioned that when I added the small desjardini tang to my frag tank within 3 weeks my corals responded yet the nutrients readings were still zero.

I just continued to feed the fish and added no coral foods or any other kind of additives other than alk and calc.

I didn't test much.....10/10/16 still zeros.

12/12/16- Zeros

Over all this time I could see the corals continuing to improve..........that's 3 months since the tang had been added.

Yesterday I tested PO4-0------ N03-.75-1.0.. This is a full six months since the tang was added. It took the system that long to show a test kit change and to possibly balance out the effect of just adding that one fish.

Here's a few shots from the frag tank--

ASD Rainbow Milli- the colors this frag is pulling are insane. The original frag looked good but not like this.

ASD rainbow Milli- R.jpg 022617 by Big E 52, on Flickr

Darth Maul Porites

Darth Maul porites R2 by Big E 52, on Flickr

Horrida

Horrida close R 030817 by Big E 52, on Flickr

Lemon/lime table

lemon lime table 121316 by Big E 52, on Flickr

 

[PatrikD]

Colors are extremely nice as always in your thread. Even in the frag tank with the Sunpower fixture not in over drive.

 

[sensei]

Ed,
In frag tank before you added the tang:

did you used powder coral food?
can you explain what was your food skedule in frag tank before the fish?
did you do the water changes with new water or with water from your display tank?
how big is frag tank?
is one fish enough for suppliying food for coral?
how many times per day do you feed the fish?

your coral look so beautifull, I need to learn from you

Thanks a lot

 

[carlosmos]

Incredible colors !
Do you obtain this colors only adding ca and kh? Nothing to feed?

I have no3 at zero but phosphorus at 0,045. Can be the reason to don't have better colors? I don't use nothing more than kh and ca by balling system, and feed strong my fishes

Thanks



Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

 

[PatrikD]

I'm about to go from 2xKessil we360 and 2x39 blue+ coral+ to ATI sunpower 8x39W 4 blue+ and 4 coral+.

Tank is 65 g. Width 22" height 20" (water level 18") Mostly acropora.

Big E your tank and others have persuaded/inspired me to make this leap from my beloved shimmering Kessils to full t5.

Do you have any advice for the transition? The reef is a couple of years old, basic Berlin style bare bottom two part doser. I have experienced the usual problems with pale corals and low but not zero levels of nitrate and phosphate. By disabling the skimmer for months and stopped dosing fm coral balance, the values are now on the high side NO3 25 and Po4 0,22 but the corals tend to thrive better and better. I have the corals mounted on one stone each so I'm thinking it would be good to put them all on the bottom to begin with. Now many are elevated on stands midway up and a bit higher.

 

[Big E]

I'm about to go from 2xKessil we360 and 2x39 blue+ coral+ to ATI sunpower 8x39W 4 blue+ and 4 coral+.

Tank is 65 g. Width 22" height 20" (water level 18") Mostly acropora.

Big E your tank and others have persuaded/inspired me to make this leap from my beloved shimmering Kessils to full t5.

Do you have any advice for the transition? The reef is a couple of years old, basic Berlin style bare bottom two part doser. I have experienced the usual problems with pale corals and low but not zero levels of nitrate and phosphate. By disabling the skimmer for months and stopped dosing fm coral balance, the values are now on the high side NO3 25 and Po4 0,22 but the corals tend to thrive better and better. I have the corals mounted on one stone each so I'm thinking it would be good to put them all on the bottom to begin with. Now many are elevated on stands midway up and a bit higher.

It would be smart to start the corals low.....worst that can happen is some temporary browning. You can adjust over time, let the coral colors and growth be your guide.

Use this table...........focus on the distance from the lights..........that gives you the par level. Most corals do well between 300-500. Smooth skin acros do well lower, around 250.

The lights are 6 1/2" from the surface and total water depth is 18 1/2". The first number is the level from the floor of the tank. The number in ( ) is the distance from the bulbs.

1" off the bottom-- 200 (24)
3"- 260 (22)
6"- 280 (19)
10"- 300 (15) This is mid level area of the tank.
11"- 325 (14)
12"- 360 (13)
13"- 400 (12)
14"- 430 (11)
15"- 470 (10)
17"- 500 (8)

 

[Big E]

Ed,
In frag tank before you added the tang:

did you used powder coral food?
can you explain what was your food skedule in frag tank before the fish?
did you do the water changes with new water or with water from your display tank?
how big is frag tank?
is one fish enough for suppliying food for coral?
how many times per day do you feed the fish?

your coral look so beautifull, I need to learn from you

Thanks a lot

I always had fish...... two clowns.........just not enough of them. One fish is not enough. I just feed the fish throughout the day,maybe 3-4 times.

Water changes are/were replaced by fresh saltwater.

Long story short----5 fish in 40g breeder(first version of frag tank)good growth and colors Went down to two fish........low nutrient issues. Expanded to current frag tank 60g same issues continued until tang was added.

Incredible colors !
Do you obtain this colors only adding ca and kh? Nothing to feed?

I have no3 at zero but phosphorus at 0,045. Can be the reason to don't have better colors? I don't use nothing more than kh and ca by balling system, and feed strong my fishes

Thanks



Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Thanks, yes, no additives, except alk and calc. The fish food has all the corals need........they'll grab some particles and benefit from the fish waste, ammonium and urea. That is the coral food...........it's the same as how coral reefs work in nature.

Mg and trace elements are replenished/maintained & balanced by water changes.

P04 higher than N03 never works. You need to have at least some type of nitrate reading. Focus on getting your nitrates up. The two best ways are to add fish or reduce the efficiency of your export system.

 

[sensei]

Thanks for your answer Ed,

do you think that acros are able to feed from cyclopeeze??
I ask because I am planning to inlude cyclopeeze to feed my fish, and I thought acros could benefit if they get some?

is it possible to have TO MANY FISH in an sps tank?
I ask because I do not know if there is an optimum balance and passed that number it may be detrimental for acros?

please tell me what you think,
thanks a lot

 

[Big E]

Thanks for your answer Ed,

do you think that acros are able to feed from cyclopeeze??
I ask because I am planning to inlude cyclopeeze to feed my fish, and I thought acros could benefit if they get some?

I think it's too large, but it won't hurt The corals will benefit most from foods that promote them to throw out the mesenterial filament nets. Frozen raw food mixtures do a good job of this.

Coral polyps will grab onto to anything, it's just a matter if they can take it in.

This Mother of Pearl is nabbing some flake food..........you can see the smaller flake lower in the picture being consumed.

is it possible to have TO MANY FISH in an sps tank?
I ask because I do not know if there is an optimum balance and passed that number it may be detrimental for acros?

Sure if your export system can't keep up and unwanted algae takes over..... ..you also don't want to overcrowd the fish.

Same as what happens on a reef when the apex predators are gone........too many fish pollutes the reef, corals die off and and algae takes over. Everything is a balance in every reef tank. It's not specific numbers measured on a test kit, but the overall visual health and growth of the corals and fish.

please tell me what you think,
thanks a lot

 

[sensei]

Thanks a lot for the explanation Ed,

When you say:
"The corals will benefit most from foods that promote them to throw out the mesenterial filament nets. Frozen raw food mixtures do a good job of this."

it seems to me that you also want some very tiny frozen food particles to get to acro and not just the food they can get from fish pop. This could be acomplished by blending fresh seafood to somewhat pulverize some of the food?
I remember you said before "that you throw in the juices"

do you buy ready to use frozen food mixtures for your fish or do you prepare the food your self?
if you do prepare your frozen food can you explain a little how do you do it? how little are the pieces and which ingredients you use?

in the photo you posted the acro with some pieces of food flakes, so you also feed flakes? pellets, etc?

Thanks again

 

[Big E]

Yes, any kind of small particle food may be beneficial but I don't go out of my way to feed the corals. Just focus on feeding the fish a variety of foods and the rest will take care of itself.

I occasionally feed pellets & flakes, but the majority of foods I feed are raw frozen seafood I chop up myself, commercial mysis and ocean plankton. I chop up the food and then will mash it in the cup with my fingers if needed to make various bite size pieces the fish can take in. This invariably creates some small particles and juices.

Don't over think it...........that's when people run into issues as they start polluting their tank with all kinds of coral foods when all they have to do is feed the fish.

 

[rogergolf66]

Tagging

 

[sensei]

Yes, any kind of small particle food may be beneficial but I don't go out of my way to feed the corals. Just focus on feeding the fish a variety of foods and the rest will take care of itself.

I occasionally feed pellets & flakes, but the majority of foods I feed are raw frozen seafood I chop up myself, commercial mysis and ocean plankton. I chop up the food and then will mash it in the cup with my fingers if needed to make various bite size pieces the fish can take in. This invariably creates some small particles and juices.

Don't over think it...........that's when people run into issues as they start polluting their tank with all kinds of coral foods when all they have to do is feed the fish.

understood professor!

one more feeding question:

I also feed nori in a clip. I have noticed that when fish eat nori from the clip a lot ( and I mean a lot) of nori little pieces get suspended in water. Some of these pieces get eaten by other fish but a lot do not. Is it normal for this to happen?
I believe you also feed some nori? what brand of nori do you use?
have you noticed flying nori pieces?


thanks

 

[codydemmel4]

Just read through your thread Ed as a way to get myself to believe that I can get good colors without throwing in all kinds of elements as long as you keep everything stable with good lighting and flow.

I was having great success with this but then I started to throw in random stuff and everything was getting out of whack, had a huge alk swing from 7.5-8 to around 10 and that caused almost all of my corals to STN, lose almost all my frags etc. I am going to go back to original way I had it when I setup my 180g the first time back in 2016 when I followed this thread and your bulb combo.

I do have some questions regarding flow if you could help me understand how you positions yours. My lighting is 8x80 with 4 blue+ and 4 coral + and for flow I have 2 gyre 150 and 2 jabeo pp15s positioned as shown in this picture below. Do you have any advice on where to position them to get the random flow on both sides? Right now I am worried I am only getting flow on the left side from the corals on the left and only on the right side from the corals on the right or doesnt this really have a big affect as long as the coral is not blasted straight on? Most of the heavy stream I have is at the very top of the tank but with the corals still getting a good blast. Although it does seem the corals in the middle of my tank that get the downstream in the middle of both gyres seem to do the best.

<a href="http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/codydemmel4/media/new%20180/3AF1C74D-D92A-4DAA-8270-241090CFF3A8_zpsjcevyvop.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah230/codydemmel4/new%20180/3AF1C74D-D92A-4DAA-8270-241090CFF3A8_zpsjcevyvop.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3AF1C74D-D92A-4DAA-8270-241090CFF3A8_zpsjcevyvop.jpg"/></a>


What powerheads are you using for flow and how much turnover do you think you have?

 

[AD87]

Ed, hope all is well!

That rainbow milli is sweet!

 

[abhishek@1985]

What can I say ? From the time you have sent me the link to your thread till now, I have read it atleast 5 times and everytime I am amazed at your reef keeping skill and humility .

Regarding flow - What do you use for flow in your tank and how have you positioned them ?
And skimmer - you use quite a big one for your tank size. How did you manage to tune it as I have found it a major pain in the ***** to tune an overly sized skimmer.

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Big E]

Just read through your thread Ed as a way to get myself to believe that I can get good colors without throwing in all kinds of elements as long as you keep everything stable with good lighting and flow.

I was having great success with this but then I started to throw in random stuff and everything was getting out of whack, had a huge alk swing from 7.5-8 to around 10 and that caused almost all of my corals to STN, lose almost all my frags etc. I am going to go back to original way I had it when I setup my 180g the first time back in 2016 when I followed this thread and your bulb combo.

I do have some questions regarding flow if you could help me understand how you positions yours. My lighting is 8x80 with 4 blue+ and 4 coral + and for flow I have 2 gyre 150 and 2 jabeo pp15s positioned as shown in this picture below. Do you have any advice on where to position them to get the random flow on both sides? Right now I am worried I am only getting flow on the left side from the corals on the left and only on the right side from the corals on the right or doesnt this really have a big affect as long as the coral is not blasted straight on? Most of the heavy stream I have is at the very top of the tank but with the corals still getting a good blast. Although it does seem the corals in the middle of my tank that get the downstream in the middle of both gyres seem to do the best.

What powerheads are you using for flow and how much turnover do you think you have?

I use 2 Tunze 6095 on all the time at the ramp up and down setting. A 6025 and an Jaebo 15 at 20 second intervals.

My tank is so shallow it's hard to run the 6095's more than 50%.

Your setup seems fine to me...........just watch how the polyps move back and forth. As they grow, if the acros bend too much one way & you don't like it, you can adjust. If you think corals in the middle are doing the best maybe you need to add another pump strategically........it's what I'd do. Trust your judgemnt and observations.

Ed, hope all is well!

That rainbow milli is sweet!

Thanks my man! We need to get together soon.

 

[Big E]

understood professor!

one more feeding question:

I also feed nori in a clip. I have noticed that when fish eat nori from the clip a lot ( and I mean a lot) of nori little pieces get suspended in water. Some of these pieces get eaten by other fish but a lot do not. Is it normal for this to happen?
I believe you also feed some nori? what brand of nori do you use?
have you noticed flying nori pieces?


thanks

Yes, that's normal. I haven't use nori in a long time. My purple tang I had for 21 years wouldn't eat it. He liked the pellets and other food more. I would count out 10-12 large NLS pellets daily as he was the only eater of them and then he got some of everything else in the tank I fed the other fish.

The current tang in my frag tank won't eat it either, but the Nori I tried was very old. I'm still working on getting him to widen his diet more. I doubt I'll feed nori very often.

I get it when people have a tank full of tangs.........that seaweed has a ton of nutrients in it, so it's a bigger polluter, but it also has a lot of good trace elements that pass through the fish. They are only going to retain a small portion of both when growing. When they are adults most of it passes through them as waste.