SchnitzelReef
Active member
Wow. What an amazing tank. Awesome corals
Top down shots
- Thread starter Big E
- Start date
Big E
Premium Member
Thanks!
For most systems you could probably be fine with 6 hours, but for our personal enjoyment we want a longer photo period. I use 8 because it fits for me and also helps with some bulb life, electrical costs and fixture longevity.
I keep my frag tank at 7 hours.
Imo, above 8 peak intensity hours the corals aren't really benefiting more and at some point there is a diminishing returns level where there may be damage......if that happens, the coral spends it's time at night repairing itself instead of growing more.
I don't believe people that keep their systems on for 10-12 hrs. with 4 or so hours of those being dawn/dusk at low intensity is an advantage or disadvantage.
Corals can definitely brown out if the intensity is too low. A long photo period won't compensate for low par.
Thanks, I admire your system and corals as well.
sensei
New member
one more question.
if all parameter are correct, would an acro grow 25% more in a system that has 8 hours vr the same system with 6 hours of light?
Thanks a lot
Big E
Premium Member
Hi Nathan,
I'm sure we can work something out.........just let me know when you want to get together.
It's not that linear, there are too many other factors/variables involved.
Big E
Premium Member
Here's a few updates--
Vivids floor colony........I'm not going to let it get much bigger as it's right next to the front glass.
[/url]vivid floor R 061717 by Big E 52, on Flickr[/IMG]
Blueberry Cheesecake exploding with lots of new growth
[/url]blueberry cheescake R 061717 by Big E 52, on Flickr[/IMG]
Vivids floor colony........I'm not going to let it get much bigger as it's right next to the front glass.
Blueberry Cheesecake exploding with lots of new growth
sensei
New member
Ed,
Even if the relationship is not linear you should expect more growth when you lid the tank 8 hours versus 6 correct?
2.- do you see any advantages in keeping higher mag levels like 1400 in an sps tank or just aiming 1300 would be as fine?
Thanks
Sensei, not sure if you watch bulk reef supply on YouTube but they just put out a video about light intensity and how long you light corals. They said it's best not to over light them or run your lights for too long because then it just hurts the coral and actually slows down growth.
sensei
New member
Yes, I saw the video.
I am using 400w radium blue halides for my 460g tank and I used to think that 5 hours of halide was a good amount of time and 6 hours was the maximum, but after reading Eds thread I have been increasing and I am seing good results . Now I am up to 6 and a half hours and my goal is to have 8 hours. I am thinking that if acros use photosintesys for growth, then 8 hours would make them grow more than 6 hours.
thanks
Big E
Premium Member
The video doesn't cover anything I haven't stated in this thread or other RC posts for at least the past five years.
I've mentioned diminishing returns, par and duration but spectrum is very important. Corals can only release H2O2 at a certain rate and when you are at it's excitation level you can cause them to implode, bleach, ect. with too much par, duration of a specific spectrum. Each coral is different and why I try to limit my lighting variables to create the best color and growth range for each coral by placement.
You also have to factor in flow, nutrient levels, water clarity.
My range is wider than what BRS has stated as some corals won't color up at 350........they need more.
Most acros need 300-450. Smooth skins 200-250. These are general guidelines. If you have a tank that's 24" deep or less you may have trouble bleaching chalices and some LPS.
You can use the par and distance from the lights table I posted in this thread as well.
Post 570---
As far a what I do to create more vivid saturated colors vs the pastel look I focus on---
1. Keeping par levels between 200-450
2. 8 hour photoperiod
3. I try to run a high energy system..........plenty of food/nutrients all day.
4. I don't run a ULNS system.
5. I don't dose any trace metals..........they cause zoo to expel and create pastel look in corals, which I don't like unless the coral is naturally pastel.
6. My water changes and the food I feed the fish keep any trace elements at good levels.
--------------------------------------------
Post 624--
A combination of intensity, spectrum and nutrient levels all play a role. Flow is also important, but most people don't struggle with that.
You can do less than 6 and probably be fine. I do eight hours full on because it works for me as far as enjoyment of viewing the tank for a certain amount of time and what still works for growth and color.
I’m not a fan of the dominant blue dawn/dusk look, so I don’t use it. When I’ve run any type of dawn/dusk, I just would not turn all the lights on at once. It’s really more for the fish, they prefer to acclimate slower to the light, but if you have ambient lighting from windows or whatever, that serves the same purpose………….corals don’t need dusk/dawn in our tanks.
Another reason for 8 hours is again for the fish……..I don’t think they’d do as well long term only getting a short duration of light. In the end you do what you like, works for your schedule and still accommodates the animals in your system.
On natural coral reefs in less than a half hour the sun is hitting the corals at full intensity and at much higher levels………..the important thing to remember is the earth is moving, so each section of a coral gets a lot less (time duration) of that intensity………… it’s a reason they grow in such nice perfect shapes. It’s very similar to how a tree looks that is in an area open enough to get all angles of the sun.
---------------------
Jorge,
For your tank specifically 8 hours won't hurt the corals.......I don't know how much more growth and color you'll get. It's something you'll have to see for yourself, but going back and looking at top flight SPS systems with all MH, 8 hours will work fine at your current nutrient levels and what I currently know of your system from our offline talks.
You need to be aware of hot spots as well, but your reflectors do a nice job of spreading out the light. For LED users with pucks this is more of a watch out. Be aware of not creating a peak in your aquascape right under a puck or hot spot..........you want to do more the opposite...........valleys and lower areas under the hot spots.
Algaefix use is up to you............I gave you my experiences.
I've mentioned diminishing returns, par and duration but spectrum is very important. Corals can only release H2O2 at a certain rate and when you are at it's excitation level you can cause them to implode, bleach, ect. with too much par, duration of a specific spectrum. Each coral is different and why I try to limit my lighting variables to create the best color and growth range for each coral by placement.
You also have to factor in flow, nutrient levels, water clarity.
My range is wider than what BRS has stated as some corals won't color up at 350........they need more.
Most acros need 300-450. Smooth skins 200-250. These are general guidelines. If you have a tank that's 24" deep or less you may have trouble bleaching chalices and some LPS.
You can use the par and distance from the lights table I posted in this thread as well.
Post 570---
As far a what I do to create more vivid saturated colors vs the pastel look I focus on---
1. Keeping par levels between 200-450
2. 8 hour photoperiod
3. I try to run a high energy system..........plenty of food/nutrients all day.
4. I don't run a ULNS system.
5. I don't dose any trace metals..........they cause zoo to expel and create pastel look in corals, which I don't like unless the coral is naturally pastel.
6. My water changes and the food I feed the fish keep any trace elements at good levels.
--------------------------------------------
Post 624--
A combination of intensity, spectrum and nutrient levels all play a role. Flow is also important, but most people don't struggle with that.
You can do less than 6 and probably be fine. I do eight hours full on because it works for me as far as enjoyment of viewing the tank for a certain amount of time and what still works for growth and color.
I’m not a fan of the dominant blue dawn/dusk look, so I don’t use it. When I’ve run any type of dawn/dusk, I just would not turn all the lights on at once. It’s really more for the fish, they prefer to acclimate slower to the light, but if you have ambient lighting from windows or whatever, that serves the same purpose………….corals don’t need dusk/dawn in our tanks.
Another reason for 8 hours is again for the fish……..I don’t think they’d do as well long term only getting a short duration of light. In the end you do what you like, works for your schedule and still accommodates the animals in your system.
On natural coral reefs in less than a half hour the sun is hitting the corals at full intensity and at much higher levels………..the important thing to remember is the earth is moving, so each section of a coral gets a lot less (time duration) of that intensity………… it’s a reason they grow in such nice perfect shapes. It’s very similar to how a tree looks that is in an area open enough to get all angles of the sun.
---------------------
Jorge,
For your tank specifically 8 hours won't hurt the corals.......I don't know how much more growth and color you'll get. It's something you'll have to see for yourself, but going back and looking at top flight SPS systems with all MH, 8 hours will work fine at your current nutrient levels and what I currently know of your system from our offline talks.
You need to be aware of hot spots as well, but your reflectors do a nice job of spreading out the light. For LED users with pucks this is more of a watch out. Be aware of not creating a peak in your aquascape right under a puck or hot spot..........you want to do more the opposite...........valleys and lower areas under the hot spots.
Algaefix use is up to you............I gave you my experiences.
Big E
Premium Member
Growth pattern for one..........a table type growth may spend more time basing out to be able to support it's future growth.
Staghorms tend to not have to create large bases before they start to show new growth shoots.
Most of it is probably in the genes and where the coral thrives in the wild, it's adapted and grown that way for years...........we all know about evolution.
Flow plays a role as well.
sensei
New member
Yes professor,
your thread has so much good information that I will read it again.
I am sure I will be able to understand more after everything I have learned.
Thanks a lot!
I am not sure I understood your explanation about hidrogen peroxide ( H2O2), can you elaborate a little more.
Once you said that " you do not need a par meter and we may be better of without one". I understand that corals are the ones that should tell us the right par for it. But to be able to do this we would have to move the acropora around the tank several times until we find the sweet spot for it. I ussually glue the frag in a big rock so moving the frag is not possible. I am thinking of glueing it to a little rock to be able to move it around. how much time should we keep the frag in a spot to be able to see it thrieves there? how ofter can I move the frag around? would it be fine if I move an acro from 250 to 400 in one step or should I move it up little by little?
thanks again
Big E
Premium Member
It's not that difficult........... with your MH most acropora will be fine from 300 to 450. Just be aware of the hot spots and the reach of the lights.
Your bulbs create a very acceptable spectrum range..........you're using a bulb that has years of success.
You can use the table I posted with respect to distance and par as a general guideline
Smooth skin echinatas, hawkins, specosia types don't need as much light.
If something isn't doing well, bleaching, browned out, ect. you move it...........it's not like they are in cement. Give them a few months to adjust and just be patient and observe how the corals do.
Again, don't get caught up in par numbers ..........just visually divide your tank into 3-4 range levels and keep it at that........no need to micro manage off specific numbers.
Your bulbs create a very acceptable spectrum range..........you're using a bulb that has years of success.
You can use the table I posted with respect to distance and par as a general guideline
Smooth skin echinatas, hawkins, specosia types don't need as much light.
If something isn't doing well, bleaching, browned out, ect. you move it...........it's not like they are in cement. Give them a few months to adjust and just be patient and observe how the corals do.
Again, don't get caught up in par numbers ..........just visually divide your tank into 3-4 range levels and keep it at that........no need to micro manage off specific numbers.
Big E
Premium Member
With your setup the hot spot will be minimal ............directly under the bulb and high up in your tank would be the only concern.
T5s don't have hot spots
--------------------------------------
To clarify my par comments...........approx.300-450 is the sweet spot area.
Most setups you should have a nice 24-26" deep window to work with. That would be approx. the 200-500 range. Many acro species can adapt anywhere throughout that range.
T5s don't have hot spots
--------------------------------------
To clarify my par comments...........approx.300-450 is the sweet spot area.
Most setups you should have a nice 24-26" deep window to work with. That would be approx. the 200-500 range. Many acro species can adapt anywhere throughout that range.
Last edited:
sensei
New member
Ed,
your post #182
The par readings in your fixtures are:
1" off the bottom-- 200 (24)
3"- 260 (22)
6"- 280 (19)
10"- 300 (15) This is mid level area of the tank
I assume you have very similar par readings in your frag tank.
question: when you introduced new frags that come form a led system to your frag tank, do you start at the very bottom and gradually move up?
or do you start at 3" or 6 "??
I want to get a felling on how you aclimate your new frags and more or less what is the starting par, and then how much time you leave them at that level before moving them up the rack in frag tank
thanks again
your post #182
The par readings in your fixtures are:
1" off the bottom-- 200 (24)
3"- 260 (22)
6"- 280 (19)
10"- 300 (15) This is mid level area of the tank
I assume you have very similar par readings in your frag tank.
question: when you introduced new frags that come form a led system to your frag tank, do you start at the very bottom and gradually move up?
or do you start at 3" or 6 "??
I want to get a felling on how you aclimate your new frags and more or less what is the starting par, and then how much time you leave them at that level before moving them up the rack in frag tank
thanks again
Big E
Premium Member
If the frags aren't pale or bleached I just place it where I have room. The frag tank is shallow, so there isn't much to having levels.
I basically just consider the tank to have two levels.......upper and lower.
Don't over analyze it.........put the corals in and observe growth, color, ect. over time.
For example, I had a Fox flame frag that came from a similar t5 setup. Over the next month it grew but the skin was bleaching so I put in on the floor of the tank. When it goes in the display I'll mount it low.
I basically just consider the tank to have two levels.......upper and lower.
Don't over analyze it.........put the corals in and observe growth, color, ect. over time.
For example, I had a Fox flame frag that came from a similar t5 setup. Over the next month it grew but the skin was bleaching so I put in on the floor of the tank. When it goes in the display I'll mount it low.
