Top down shots

Pretty simple setup. I was running bio pellets on my tank which is 5 months old and i basically was starving the tank, the acros and millies were pale, my zoas were pale, basically everything was and i had little to no growth. last night my new skimmer came in. i have 50 gallons total water volume so i upgraded to a new Vertex 150 skimmer and took the bio pellets offline. we shall see how things start to change.


Keep me posted on how things turn out.


sahin---

On the Icecap ballasts, I read earlier today that it will overdrive the T5's to about 80watts each (producing 25-40% extra PAR).

Those PAR numbers you are getting suggests that the wattage must be somewhere in the 250+ region.

I've heard about that 80w number often over the years, but I'm skeptical about it being true. I vaguely remember someone measuring recently and it was in the 250w range you mentioned for four bulbs.

Hi Big,...That is some very good information! Thanks for the posting.---Rick

No problem......here's more data points I saved someone posted. It's ten bulbs 54w, five inches over the surface. Tank is 24" high.

Take note that the fixture is 5" versus mine at 6.5". If you look at my numbers you can see how much of a difference 1.5" can make........taking that into consideration, the numbers are probably comprable. Also, I can't remember for sure, but you can see how bright the center area is compared to the edges, so I'm assuming it was a 72" tank and 60" bulbs.

10x54wATI5inchesoffwater.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Last edited:
I did some par readings on my fixture for anyone interested. I'm overdriving the bulbs on an ice cap ballast.

The new Apogee 200 was used set on "electric" mode.

The numbers are consistent front to back and end to end because I'm using just the two types of bulbs. The measurements are from the bottom up. In parenthesis is the actual distance from the bulbs.

The lights are 6 1/2" from the surface and total water depth is 18 1/2"

1" off the bottom-- 200 (24)
3"- 260 (22)
6"- 280 (19)
10"- 300 (15) This is mid level area of the tank.
11"- 325 (14)
12"- 360 (13)
11"- 325 (14)
12"- 400 (13)
14"- 430 (11)
15"- 470 (10)
17"- 500 (8)

I also took the probe and put it a 1/4" from the bulbs to get a reading to see how potent they were compared to each other.

Coral+- 1000
Blue +- 1100

I was looking at this post today to communicate my numbers to another reefer and realized I reversed some of the numbers. Here is the table fixed---

1" off the bottom-- 200 (24)
3"- 260 (22)
6"- 280 (19)
10"- 300 (15) This is mid level area of the tank.
11"- 325 (14)
12"- 360 (13)
13"- 400 (12)
14"- 430 (11)
15"- 470 (10)
17"- 500 (8)
 
Keep in mind the vinegar is just a nutrient reducing tool like all the others.

If you're going to do it don't use competing tools like a refugium, GFO, ect. You'll lessen it's effectiveness and the control you have.

Expect months of adjustments and results.............it's tricky and you don't need to dose near as much as you think. Most people overdose and then do all kinds of crazy stuff chasing numbers.

Hi Ed,

I have started to dose white vinegar as per the instructions in this article. I am currently dosing 4 ml per day.

I also have a chaeto bed and run GFO (Rowa) and carbon (Seachem Matrix) in two separate reactors. Although I hardly ever get any nitrate (Salifert) and phosphate (Rowa Merck) readings, my front and side glasses get covered with green film algae every two days. I do not have any hair algae on glass or rocks. I am assuming that the total phosphates must be high as I use the frequency of glass cleaning as my biomark for the presence of bad nutrients. So, I have decided to introduce some carbon source to the water column to increase the amount of bacteria to reduce bad nutrients further. I am intending to decommission my phosphate reactor in a few weeks time. However, I will keep my chaeto bed as it stabilises pH as well as provides safe heaven for zooplankton.

I would like to know how you decided that 15 ml of vinegar per day is enough for your tank.

I will use the following two criteria to decide to stop fix the amount of vinegar to be dosed in my tank:

1. the frequency of glass cleaning drops once every four to five days or more
2. chaeto growth continues at a steady pace (perhaps not as vigorous as before but does not slow down )

What is your opinion on my methodology?

regards
 
I haven't taken any pics in a while, because a lot of stuff is on racks and I'm in the process of switching over to my 80g. I'm going to transfer everything in the next week. Once I do that I'll take some pics for a new starting point.

Here's a few recent close ups--

tortbranch_zps31ce1149.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

stylomacro_zps36e7de35.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

I got this frag a few months ago............should be sweet once it grows out more.

arons_zps79dfa8e6.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
DHeckel--- I broke down your post and tried to cover all your questions-----


I have started to dose white vinegar as per the instructions in this article. I am currently dosing 4 ml per day.

I also have a chaeto bed and run GFO (Rowa) and carbon (Seachem Matrix) in two separate reactors. Although I hardly ever get any nitrate (Salifert) and phosphate (Rowa Merck) readings, my front and side glasses get covered with green film algae every two days. I do not have any hair algae on glass or rocks. I am assuming that the total phosphates must be high as I use the frequency of glass cleaning as my biomark for the presence of bad nutrients.

Don't assume they're "bad" nutrients........film algae is fine and the corals are taking up some of those nutrients too. I don't think I'd bother to reduce levels anymore if your colors a deep and vivid.

So, I have decided to introduce some carbon source to the water column to increase the amount of bacteria to reduce bad nutrients further. I am intending to decommission my phosphate reactor in a few weeks time. However, I will keep my chaeto bed as it stabilises pH as well as provides safe heaven for zooplankton.

I only use GFO to knock down high PO4 levels otherwise, I'd just take if off now if you're going to dose vinegar. The GFO is taking away PO4 the bacteria needs to grow. The Chaeto will compete for nutrients too, so I'd eliminate that too.

If you're going to run a bacterial based system you don't need those other export crutches. The idea is to simplify things.........you want to control things with your dosing levels......with other variables like GFO and chaeto it limits your control.


I would like to know how you decided that 15 ml of vinegar per day is enough for your tank.

When I was dosing too much I'd see white sludge in my circulation pumps or other areas..........you don't want any of that. Your PO4 can also keep rising if you get to zero nitrates and you keep raising your dose levels. That's a sign to cut way down. As long as I'm under .10 phosphates I'm good, I don't chase each tenth of a point.


I will use the following two criteria to decide to stop fix the amount of vinegar to be dosed in my tank:

1. the frequency of glass cleaning drops once every four to five days or more
2. chaeto growth continues at a steady pace (perhaps not as vigorous as before but does not slow down )

What is your opinion on my methodology?

Pay attention to coral growth and colors. If you have a balanced system you can see new growth almost every day. When the lights come on you should see the bases killing coraline or new tips sprouting, ect.

If your levels are already good and your corals look good, I'm not sure I would dose vinegar at all. If you want to eliminate GFO, chaeto and make things more manageable and controllable than dosing is fine. Just be patient, you may have to go through some minor ups and downs. Make sure you have plenty of snails, your coraline is growing good, and keep your rocks basted.

A lot of people give up and blame the vinegar to not working when in fact they don't have a good skimmer or aren't getting the nutrient laden bacteria to the skimmer. Any kind of filter bags will catch bacteria and if you don't change that daily they just die and release the nutrients back into the tank.
I opt not to use any filter pads or bags. Make sure you have good flow in the tank and minimal dead areas.

When everything is working good you shouldn't be able to see any detritus out of the rocks when you baste them.
 
Beautiful shots Ed. I love the first shot especially because of the contrast between the two corals. Thats a very artsy shot :D
 
DHeckel--- I broke down your post and tried to cover all your questions-----


I have started to dose white vinegar as per the instructions in this article. I am currently dosing 4 ml per day.

I also have a chaeto bed and run GFO (Rowa) and carbon (Seachem Matrix) in two separate reactors. Although I hardly ever get any nitrate (Salifert) and phosphate (Rowa Merck) readings, my front and side glasses get covered with green film algae every two days. I do not have any hair algae on glass or rocks. I am assuming that the total phosphates must be high as I use the frequency of glass cleaning as my biomark for the presence of bad nutrients.

Don't assume they're "bad" nutrients........film algae is fine and the corals are taking up some of those nutrients too. I don't think I'd bother to reduce levels anymore if your colors a deep and vivid.

So, I have decided to introduce some carbon source to the water column to increase the amount of bacteria to reduce bad nutrients further. I am intending to decommission my phosphate reactor in a few weeks time. However, I will keep my chaeto bed as it stabilises pH as well as provides safe heaven for zooplankton.

I only use GFO to knock down high PO4 levels otherwise, I'd just take if off now if you're going to dose vinegar. The GFO is taking away PO4 the bacteria needs to grow. The Chaeto will compete for nutrients too, so I'd eliminate that too.

If you're going to run a bacterial based system you don't need those other export crutches. The idea is to simplify things.........you want to control things with your dosing levels......with other variables like GFO and chaeto it limits your control.


I would like to know how you decided that 15 ml of vinegar per day is enough for your tank.

When I was dosing too much I'd see white sludge in my circulation pumps or other areas..........you don't want any of that. Your PO4 can also keep rising if you get to zero nitrates and you keep raising your dose levels. That's a sign to cut way down. As long as I'm under .10 phosphates I'm good, I don't chase each tenth of a point.


I will use the following two criteria to decide to stop fix the amount of vinegar to be dosed in my tank:

1. the frequency of glass cleaning drops once every four to five days or more
2. chaeto growth continues at a steady pace (perhaps not as vigorous as before but does not slow down )

What is your opinion on my methodology?

Pay attention to coral growth and colors. If you have a balanced system you can see new growth almost every day. When the lights come on you should see the bases killing coraline or new tips sprouting, ect.

If your levels are already good and your corals look good, I'm not sure I would dose vinegar at all. If you want to eliminate GFO, chaeto and make things more manageable and controllable than dosing is fine. Just be patient, you may have to go through some minor ups and downs. Make sure you have plenty of snails, your coraline is growing good, and keep your rocks basted.

A lot of people give up and blame the vinegar to not working when in fact they don't have a good skimmer or aren't getting the nutrient laden bacteria to the skimmer. Any kind of filter bags will catch bacteria and if you don't change that daily they just die and release the nutrients back into the tank.
I opt not to use any filter pads or bags. Make sure you have good flow in the tank and minimal dead areas.

When everything is working good you shouldn't be able to see any detritus out of the rocks when you baste them.

Thank you for your detailed response. I have turned off my GAC and GFO reactors. At present my chaeto continues to grow. I have increased the dosing amount to 8 ml per day. I will be threading very cautiously. I am prepared to quit dosing vinegar as soon as I observe any adverse reaction from my corals. So far, they seem happy.

I removed awful lot of coralline algae from the glass a few days ago. The nitrate testing produced a reading of 0.2 ppm after a very long time. At least the bacteria have something to chew on for a while. I did not bother testing PO4 as there is no sign of green algae. However, there have been cyano on rocks for a month, which may explain low nutrient readings.
 
Thanks for the compliments everyone............I'm an "artist" now:lol:

I admit I really like to take those branch shots that hover over the reef.

DiscusHeckel-

However, there have been cyano on rocks for a month, which may explain low nutrient readings.

I would make a point of basting that stuff off the rocks every evening before lights out. It's sequestering nutrients from the rock. Keep in mind cyano is a bacteria, so vinegar dosing is going to feed it. Usually red cyano is more associated with vodka but something you should keep an eye on.

-------------

I thought I'd mention that I don't feed my corals with any of those commercial coral foods, but I do feed a lot of natural frozen foods to the fish and when I'm done feeding the food in the cup I dump all that juice into the tank. That's the best stuff for the acros.........I've never been one to sift all that off because I'm afraid it will add nutreints to the tank.

I snapped this pic of this milli going nuts from some juice from PE mysis. I was just feeding with an eye dropper from the cup to the fish with all that juice & particles.

I wish I could make a nice video because it would show this much better.

rougefragfeeding_zpsaff824d8.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]


Merry Christmas everyone!
 
Thanks again. From today, I will start blowing off my rocks with a turkey baster every afternoon religiously. I know you recommend this, but this is something I have not done on a regular basis.

I do not use commercial coral foods either, but unlike you, I always discard "juices". I will pour them in my tank from now on. I notice that PE mysis (or mysis relicta) causes the best feeding reaction from my corals. However, after feeding with that oily stuff, my skimmer's foam collapses immediately and does not recover for hours.
 
Hey Ed,...Merry Christmas,...Can I ask what foods do you feed your fish? Thanks,--- Rick

I feed shrimp, scallops, mussels and clams I buy fresh at the grocery store then freeze. You can buy a bag of scallops for around $12. It will last me 6 months or so. Just make sure there is nothing else in there........read the ingredients.

I also feed Spectrum pellets, mysis, and formula 1 & 2 flake food. If it wasn't for my tang I wouldn't feed the dry foods, but he's gotten a lot thicker since I started feeding the Spectrum pellets about 5 years ago. I feed the flakes to get some algae based food for him as he won't eat nori.

When I had just anthias and my Muellers I fed exclusivly frozen raw foods and mysis.

The PE mysis juice does collapse the foam head on the skimmer, but I'm not sure why that's a concern. It'll work it's way back back up.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Ed,...one more question,...do you use a blender or something to mix the various foods, or do you just feed each one cut up separately?---Rick
 
I just cut them up separately by hand as needed, usually two days worth. I don't like using a blender mainly becasue then there's too much mush and not enough meaty chunks.

If I was going to make strictly a coral food I'd blend them all into a mush.
 
Back
Top