Top down shots

Originally Posted by Big E View Post
The juices & small particles were from the food I was feeding the fish in the QT tank. I strained the food through a fish net before I fed the chunks to the fish.

ok, I understand now. I have read the you give the fish a seafood coctail from pieces of scalops, shrimp, clams, etc. How small to the particles need to be from all this seafoods so that the acros are able to digest it?

did you target feed them when you had the ich problem?

is it better to feed them this natural food partiples instead of coral frenzy and reef roids??

many people dose aminoacids and other vitamins. I do not think it would be necessary since powder coral food and seafood particules have protein and aminoacids are the building blocks of protein, so it would make sense taht the coral gets the aminos a vitamins from the coral food. any thoughts about this??

Ed,
I am posting this again because I forgot to change color when I introduced some questions in your written coments.

thanks again
 
Big E said:
When I started the setup I didn't want to chase nutrient numbers, so I didn't test them. I had been dosing vinegar and had the usual problem that is common now to most people. Nitrates zero and PO4 continuing to rise.

Nuisance algae become a problem so I wanted to get that down to a more manageable level and also have the nitrates higher than P04, not backwards as it was.

For most of the time my setup averaged in the .08-.10ppm range, but I was only using GFO occasionally. I'm using GFO full time now for about 3 months so it's a bit lower. My main goal was to limit the roller coaster effect of the levels. I'm now waiting to see how my current levels will work, but this is a months long process.

Most tanks fit into what I call a ballpark range approx. P04 .02-.11ppm and N03- .25-5.0ppm. Anywhere in there should work. I like Bulent's ( from Hans Werner?) average ratio of N03 being at least 10 times P04. It's not something I'd chase......just another data point to keep in mind.

I have another tank 150g, which is almost 4 years old. I have been wanting to lower NO3 in this tank, but no whatter what I do I have not been able to do it. I was worried because N is between 15- 25ppm. I give you this range because I honestly do not know the exact figure since the color in tests kits is so close that I can not see the difference between 15 or 25ppm. PO4 now 0.10 but I took the GFO out this week after reading your thread. I have had levels of 0.35ppm of PO4 in this tank and that is when I put my GFO reactor inside with 25% reccomended dose. Even when I have high levels of N and P tank is super stable with regards to algae.

I have around 15 acro frags in that tank and they are growing slow and have color but they are not thriving.

should I be concerned about levels of N and P this high?

can you coment a little about Bulent's ( from Hans Werner?) average ratio of N03 being at least 10 times P04
What are the benefits of having this ratio?

I am not sure what can I do to improve quality ( color and growth) of acros in this 150g tank?



I stopped using vinegar 3 years ago.

My old setup I ran just an oversized skimmer Deltec AP703 rated for a 500g tank on my 160g system and never had to use any GFO. I even sold my Hanna because my readouts were a rock solid .03 for 8 years.

I'd like to get back to that type of stability.
Click to expand...

Sorry for asking to much!
Thanks again
 
sensei said:
Originally Posted by Big E View Post
The juices & small particles were from the food I was feeding the fish in the QT tank. I strained the food through a fish net before I fed the chunks to the fish.

ok, I understand now. I have read the you give the fish a seafood coctail from pieces of scalops, shrimp, clams, etc. How small to the particles need to be from all this seafoods so that the acros are able to digest it?

did you target feed them when you had the ich problem?

is it better to feed them this natural food partiples instead of coral frenzy and reef roids??

many people dose aminoacids and other vitamins. I do not think it would be necessary since powder coral food and seafood particules have protein and aminoacids are the building blocks of protein, so it would make sense taht the coral gets the aminos a vitamins from the coral food. any thoughts about this??

Ed,
I am posting this again because I forgot to change color when I introduced some questions in your written coments.

thanks again
Click to expand...

I like to use natural foods that are listed on the bottle, like Reef Frenzy, or the Reef Nutrition products. I have only used them in cases where I had no fish.

Basically all you want to do is get the corals to a feeding response. I'm not sure how much they will take in, but at least you get the right response.

Here is a close up example of what happens..........you want the coral's mesenterial filaments to come out............that's why I throw in the juices.

acro slime net by Big E 52, on Flickr

I didn't take that picture, but it's one I have kept on file because it's a fascinating photo.

Most of the coral foods will just add nutrients that feed bacteria....that in turn the zoo consumes and the zoo can create the nutrients/aminos the corals need.

A lot of those coral foods are really concentrated so you have to be careful you don't start an algae bloom.

I don't cut up foods to feed the corals, only the fish. The corals will pick up random particles but mainly they get everything from what the fish provide in ammonium, urea, and what they pass through their systems in the form of nutrients, trace elements, ect.

I think where people get confused is they think about feeding the corals when it's to supply the microbial process. In a normal setup with fish all you need to do is feed the fish...........adding a bunch of coral foods on top of that is more likely going to cause nutrient issues more than benefit the corals.

A simple way to look at things is to look at the corals mouths. LPS like acan for example have large mouths..........I'd be inclined to spot feed them. Sps polyps are dinky in comparison.
 
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I have another tank 150g, which is almost 4 years old. I have been wanting to lower NO3 in this tank, but no whatter what I do I have not been able to do it. I was worried because N is between 15- 25ppm. I give you this range because I honestly do not know the exact figure since the color in tests kits is so close that I can not see the difference between 15 or 25ppm. PO4 now 0.10 but I took the GFO out this week after reading your thread. I have had levels of 0.35ppm of PO4 in this tank and that is when I put my GFO reactor inside with 25% reccomended dose. Even when I have high levels of N and P tank is super stable with regards to algae.

I have around 15 acro frags in that tank and they are growing slow and have color but they are not thriving.

should I be concerned about levels of N and P this high?

can you coment a little about Bulent's ( from Hans Werner?) average ratio of N03 being at least 10 times P04
What are the benefits of having this ratio?

I am not sure what can I do to improve quality ( color and growth) of acros in this 150g tank?
Click to expand...

Try not to over think things................I gave you those ranges as a guideline they aren't written in stone.

Your levels are a little high but I would address it only if you have algae issues or the corals aren't thriving and coloring/growing like they should.

If you're not happy I would work them down. When you get under 5.0 nitrates the Red Sea pro kit will give you accurate readings. I know it's hard to discern some of those higher levels with some kits.

I'd keep the GFO running.


I think where you're getting confused is when my P04 was high(.35) I wasn't testing nor did I really care because color and growth were fine. Over time algae became an issue so I had to address it and long term the corals did better at a lower more manageable range.
 
Last edited:
Ed,
Thanks for your answers
In my 150g I have been wanting to lower NO3 but I have not been able to do it.
I have been dosing NOPOX since I started this tank, and I installed an ATS 6 months ago and even though GHA grows well in ATS, levels of NO3 seem to be the same.
I have a sand bed in this tank that I never clean manually, so maybe the ATS is pulling nutrients out but it will take time for the sand bed to leach what its already in. so I don´t know if it it better to do nothing and hist leave ATS working for a year and do 15% WC weekly and see what happens or If I should upgrade ATS to a bigger one to harvest more GHA?
any sugestions??

2.- considering acroporas to dictate the parameters in the tank, my second question is regarding ALK. what range do you shoot for and why?

3.- What about cal and mag?

last question is about food. do you considered that pop from nori provide "quality food" for acros? I ask becuase in my big system I am feeding 2 sheets of nori per day and 2 cubes of frozen food and I would like to know if it would be better to feed more frozen seafood and less nori or if it is fine as is?

Thanks again
 
sensei said:
Ed,
Thanks for your answers
In my 150g I have been wanting to lower NO3 but I have not been able to do it.
I have been dosing NOPOX since I started this tank, and I installed an ATS 6 months ago and even though GHA grows well in ATS, levels of NO3 seem to be the same.

The NOPOX and the algae filter are directly competing with each other for the same nutrients. You aren't going to get maximum performance from either doing it that way.

When it comes to export systems I don't advocate the shotgun approach (one of everything to control nutrients)

I have a sand bed in this tank that I never clean manually, so maybe the ATS is pulling nutrients out but it will take time for the sand bed to leach what its already in. so I don´t know if it it better to do nothing and hist leave ATS working for a year and do 15% WC weekly and see what happens or If I should upgrade ATS to a bigger one to harvest more GHA?
any sugestions??

I'm not an algae filter guy......I've never used one and don't like them for many reasons. They steal elements from the corals, release toxins and don't naturally reside side by side with corals. When a natural reef in the ocean starts to struggle/subside due to pollution, fish populations, ect. the algae is right there to take over and finish off the job.

I'm sure in the ocean algae has it's place to complete the whole natural cycle, but in the close systems we run I prefer other forms of export.

I'm growing corals not algae.

I posted this video in my thread earlier, watch it.............it'll explain some of what I talk about with respect to bacteria and algae.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...3d4fa48255695a1dfa7d2ec8627d9437&action=click

Many people have nice SPS tanks with algae filters as a nutrient export tool............. I just wanted to point out some drawbacks and limitations.

This link shows some examples of what some algae uptake in trace metals.............these are the same elements people think they need to dose for the corals.......ever think that's why these elements may be depleting?

I also have no desire to add something back like nitrates so my algae filter can work right.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/

If you want to run an algae based export system I'd probably follow and get some info from some Sps keepers that like to use them.


2.- considering acroporas to dictate the parameters in the tank, my second question is regarding ALK. what range do you shoot for and why?

3.- What about cal and mag?

I run alk at 8-8.5-------cal 415-420----------mg 1300

last question is about food. do you considered that pop from nori provide "quality food" for acros? I ask becuase in my big system I am feeding 2 sheets of nori per day and 2 cubes of frozen food and I would like to know if it would be better to feed more frozen seafood and less nori or if it is fine as is?

B]Nori has lots of trace elements in it........I'm sure the largest percentage of it passes through the fish, so corals can benefit. It's definately a good source of nutrition for the fish. What you feed seems fine to me.
[/B]
Thanks again
Click to expand...
 
Ed,
NSW is 7.45, is there a specific reason you run alk at 8-8.5??
have you tried a litle lower like 7.5- 8 just to be more similar to Natural Sea Water?

changing topics:
in my new 470g dt is 10 feet long and I have four 400W Metal Halide radium 20K bulbs with 20"x20" cozumel sun reflectors. I also have 5 ecotech XR30w Pro leds lights.
I have one of the ecotech XR30w Pro leds lights at the begining of dt and one at the end and one in between each Metal Halide reflector. I want to use the led lights for suplemental color for the corals but I am not sure how to set them up for best coloration.
I do not know if I should run the metal halides alone and just use the leds before and after the 6 hours of metal halides.
any ideas ??

thanks again
 
I keep my alk at 8-8.5 for the most part simply because I like to have a buffer in case my alk drops due to something I don't notice.

I would just stay stick to a level you can keep consistent and what works best for your system.

Whenever my tank is thriving I like to do a battery of tests and the alk is always in that range. I just match the calc levels to keep a balance.

You can use one of the on line calculators--

http://www.ultimatereef.net/info/calculators/alkcalcalc.php


Depending on the ballasts you're using your Radium spectrum will be like one of these---

Radium multiple ballasts chart by Big E 52, on Flickr

You want to set your Echotech to somewhat mimic that chart--------

I would set the whites 20-25% of your blue settings

Violets -30-40%
Red-green- 10%

What you want to try to do is have a consistent spectrum over the whole tank so the only variable you have to deal with is placment of the corals in respect to par levels.
 
Last edited:
Thanks a lot for all the help Ed,
I did not know that it is better to balance the Cal to your Alk range.
what is the benefic of balancing the Cal with this calculators?
What are the effects in the chemistry of the water?
maybe less precipitation of cal?
having this balance is better for coral?

I used to think 465 was the target for Calc since it is what redsea prints in the panflets as best parameters for sps.

What about Mag? is there a balance you should also look for?
redsea suggests 1395 as best for sps growth


regarding the lights:
I use M135 BALLAST with COZUMEL SUN REFLECTOR - 400W 20K RADIUM bulbs.
I state the ballast since I do not know if chart varies with this ballast??

When you say:
"What you want to try to do is have a consistent spectrum over the whole tank so the only variable you have to deal with is placment of the corals in respect to par levels"
you are assuming that I run the ecotech XR30w Pro leds at the same time that I have Metal Halides on correct??

right now I have leds off when MH are on. should I have leds on at same time of MH?


second question:
after and before the 6 hours of Metal Halide, how can I set the ecotech XR30w Pro leds to have extra hours of light with actinics and not to much par, to enjoy viewing of the corals in the after MH hours?

Thanks again.
 
sensei said:
Thanks a lot for all the help Ed,
I did not know that it is better to balance the Cal to your Alk range.
what is the benefic of balancing the Cal with this calculators?
What are the effects in the chemistry of the water?
maybe less precipitation of cal?
having this balance is better for coral?

I don't know if there is any definitive proof that a balance is necessary, but it's how I have always done it. I also never have problems with unbalanced depletion of either.

I used to think 465 was the target for Calc since it is what redsea prints in the panflets as best parameters for sps.

What about Mag? is there a balance you should also look for?
redsea suggests 1395 as best for sps growth

Red Sea sells salt..........they recommend those numbers because that's what the RS pro mixes to.

Mg in the ocean is 1280 so in and around there is fine. Coralline does better if you don't stray too far below those levels.


regarding the lights:
I use M135 BALLAST with COZUMEL SUN REFLECTOR - 400W 20K RADIUM bulbs.
I state the ballast since I do not know if chart varies with this ballast??

I believe that's the pulse start ballast and a correct one to use. Back in the old days a lot of people would use the HQI ballast to overdrive the bulbs to produce more par and make the look to our eyes a crisper white.

When you say:
"What you want to try to do is have a consistent spectrum over the whole tank so the only variable you have to deal with is placment of the corals in respect to par levels"
you are assuming that I run the ecotech XR30w Pro leds at the same time that I have Metal Halides on correct??

Yes

right now I have leds off when MH are on. should I have leds on at same time of MH?

If you feel you have enough coverage and the corals are coloring/growing good then what you're doing is fine.

second question:
after and before the 6 hours of Metal Halide, how can I set the ecotech XR30w Pro leds to have extra hours of light with actinics and not to much par, to enjoy viewing of the corals in the after MH hours?

I prefer to only have a max of an hour of dawn/dusk at most, but many people do it differently. You can use the settings I gave you and use the blue setting to set the other colors up. If you want less par run the blues at a lower setting.

Let's move this discussion off line, since it's easier to work one on one with a lot of the specific questions your asking about your system.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
 
Ed,
can I know if you have a chiller and the temp range in your tanks?

I sent you and email with my tank info.
Thanks a lot for your help
 
Do you still have your Malu anemone from earlier in this thread? Is that your first Malu? Where did you get it? They are one of my favorites.

Any tips for keeping them?
 
Hi Matt,

I lost that about 3 years ago after having it for about 8+ years. I got if from RefferMadness when they were around. Live aquara had somthing similar for sale but it's been a couple years since I've seen them.

The one I have now is lavender with green mouth and inner area. I've had it for 2+ years. I don't see these very often either. It's about 7-8" fully expanded........thats about max size. My red one never got bigger than about 6"

My camera has trouble picking up the green inner areas. They can be picky with regard to flow but just need an area that they can firmly attach and support themselves.

The tentacles look a bit stubby because the clowns are constantly cleaning and laying eggs on the inner part of the butter tub it's in.............they push the nem down. Of course they can't lay eggs on the outside of the tub.........grrrr!!

It's in my frag tank.......took up too much space in my display.

They key is finding them healthy before purchase or you have no chance. I'd say they are a notch below difficulty with respect to a gig or mag.

malu purple 072816 by Big E 52, on Flickr
 
Last edited:
Ed,
I believe I read that you use T5s?
can I know how many hours of of full light do you give your coral?
do you do dusk and dawn?

Thanks
 
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