TOTM - 10 Years of Reef Parameters

[WestChesterReef]

Good read, thanks

 

[jminick2]

I find it hard to believe that the TOTM with nitrates 25ppm in mid 2011 also had alk lower then 8. That doesn't really jive with they way its "suppose" work. Nitrates that high should of stopped coral growth all together.

 

[WmTasker]

I find it hard to believe that the TOTM with nitrates 25ppm in mid 2011 also had alk lower then 8. That doesn't really jive with they way its "suppose" work. Nitrates that high should of stopped coral growth all together.

August 2011 TOTM is a Non-Photosynthetics system. Its a great read about a beautiful reef that goes against most conventional thinking. When it comes to alkalinity, I was surprised to see how many are below 8 also. Especially those keeping SPS Corals.

 

[WmTasker]

Thanks everyone else. I hope it helps everyone find the sweet spot for their reefs.

 

[DSMpunk]

I find it hard to believe that the TOTM with nitrates 25ppm in mid 2011 also had alk lower then 8. That doesn't really jive with they way its "suppose" work. Nitrates that high should of stopped coral growth all together.

Natural seawater is around 7 dKH, so i get that

Also, a lot of SPS guys dose carbon so anything higher than 8 can lead to burnt tips. I run mine at about 7-7.5

 

[jminick2]

Natural seawater is around 7 dKH, so i get that

Also, a lot of SPS guys dose carbon so anything higher than 8 can lead to burnt tips. I run mine at about 7-7.5

And nitrates in NSW is pretty much 0. our systems are a big exception of what should and shouldnt work. Just goes to show you don't under estimate the will to live and adapt.

 

[jminick2]

You might get burnt tips if you are running ULN with alk over 8. But with nitrates at 25 you would have had to have your alk way up there to get any growth at all i mean wayyy up there. Which is why I said what I said

But it wasn't an sps tank which explains it.

 

[Peter Eichler]

You might get burnt tips if you are running ULN with alk over 8. But with nitrates at 25 you would have had to have your alk way up there to get any growth at all i mean wayyy up there. Which is why I said what I said

But it wasn't an sps tank which explains it.

Where are you getting this from? Growth would be just fine at 25ppm nitrate regardless of the alkalinity level.

 

[jminick2]

Where are you getting this from? Growth would be just fine at 25ppm nitrate regardless of the alkalinity level.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/chemistry

in certain corals, especially those that calcify, there may be negative effects from elevated nitrate.

In most cases where nitrate levels have been examined in relation to the growth of calcerous corals, the effects have been reasonably small, but significant. Elevated nitrate has been shown to reduce the growth of corals (at less than 0.3-0.6 ppm nitrate), but the effect is eliminated if the alkalinity is elevated as well (to 4.5 meq/L).
One explanation is that the elevated nitrate drives the growth of the zooxanthellae to such an extent that it actually competes with the host for inorganic carbon (used in photosynthesis and skeletal deposition). When the alkalinity is elevated, this competition no longer deprives the host of needed carbon.

A second study on Porites porites and Montastrea annularis tends to support this hypothesis. They showed that elevated nitrate caused an increase in photosynthesis, in the density of zooxanthellae, and in their chlorophyll a and c2, and total protein, while skeletal growth decreased considerably. This effect may not be generally true, however, since elevated nitrate does not appear to have decreased calcification in Acropora cervicornis (though the experiments were carried out under very different conditions).

 

[Peter Eichler]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/chemistry

in certain corals, especially those that calcify, there may be negative effects from elevated nitrate.

In most cases where nitrate levels have been examined in relation to the growth of calcerous corals, the effects have been reasonably small, but significant. Elevated nitrate has been shown to reduce the growth of corals (at less than 0.3-0.6 ppm nitrate), but the effect is eliminated if the alkalinity is elevated as well (to 4.5 meq/L).
One explanation is that the elevated nitrate drives the growth of the zooxanthellae to such an extent that it actually competes with the host for inorganic carbon (used in photosynthesis and skeletal deposition). When the alkalinity is elevated, this competition no longer deprives the host of needed carbon.

A second study on Porites porites and Montastrea annularis tends to support this hypothesis. They showed that elevated nitrate caused an increase in photosynthesis, in the density of zooxanthellae, and in their chlorophyll a and c2, and total protein, while skeletal growth decreased considerably. This effect may not be generally true, however, since elevated nitrate does not appear to have decreased calcification in Acropora cervicornis (though the experiments were carried out under very different conditions).

Ok, but you're taking some very specific studies and making some huge leaps here. I can assure you that there would still be coral growth at 25ppm nitrate and a lower end dKH.

 

[jminick2]

Ok, but you're taking some very specific studies and making some huge leaps here. I can assure you that there would still be coral growth at 25ppm nitrate and a lower end dKH.

seems pretty specific to me, but ok you've been doing it ALOT longer than me. I'll take your word for it.

 

[Peter Eichler]

seems pretty specific to me, but ok you've been doing it ALOT longer than me. I'll take your word for it.

Randy's point was that it could be a limiting factor in growth. The intended conclusion was never that you won't have any growth with lower alkalinity and elevated nitrates.

Anyways, back to the thread. Thanks for compiling the data!

 

[jminick2]

Like I said I'll take your word for it buddy, If there's one thing I've learned in this hobby experience goes along way and I know you've been doing it awhile. So I am not doubting you at all. : ) I just treat randys stuff like the gospel haha maybe stretched it too far.

 

[WmTasker]

August 2011 TOTM is a Non-Photosynthetics system. Its a great read about a beautiful reef that goes against most conventional thinking. When it comes to alkalinity, I was surprised to see how many are below 8 also. Especially those keeping SPS Corals.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/chemistry



in certain corals, especially those that calcify, there may be negative effects from elevated nitrate.



In most cases where nitrate levels have been examined in relation to the growth of calcerous corals, the effects have been reasonably small, but significant. Elevated nitrate has been shown to reduce the growth of corals (at less than 0.3-0.6 ppm nitrate), but the effect is eliminated if the alkalinity is elevated as well (to 4.5 meq/L).

One explanation is that the elevated nitrate drives the growth of the zooxanthellae to such an extent that it actually competes with the host for inorganic carbon (used in photosynthesis and skeletal deposition). When the alkalinity is elevated, this competition no longer deprives the host of needed carbon.



A second study on Porites porites and Montastrea annularis tends to support this hypothesis. They showed that elevated nitrate caused an increase in photosynthesis, in the density of zooxanthellae, and in their chlorophyll a and c2, and total protein, while skeletal growth decreased considerably. This effect may not be generally true, however, since elevated nitrate does not appear to have decreased calcification in Acropora cervicornis (though the experiments were carried out under very different conditions).

I just have two points and then can we please move on.

The study is about "calcerous" corals, corals that use photosynthesis and calcium for skeletal deposition, and how the nitrates may slow the growth of zooxanthellea.

The tank in question with nitrates of 25 is a Non-Photosynthetics system and has no calcerous corals. None. So this study and most common reef keeping doesn't apply to this reef. Period. Click on the link above and read about the tank. It's one of a kind.

 

[jminick2]

I just have two points and then can we please move on.

The study is about "calcerous" corals, corals that use photosynthesis and calcium for skeletal deposition, and how the nitrates may slow the growth of zooxanthellea.

The tank in question with nitrates of 25 is a Non-Photosynthetics system and has no calcerous corals. None. So this study and most common reef keeping doesn't apply to this reef. Period. Click on the link above and read about the tank. It's one of a kind.

or just scroll up and see where I already acknowledged that you said that. No need to get all bossy.
I wasn't debating that would be dumb on my part he has forgotten more about reefing than I'll ever know.

 

[jminick2]

You might get burnt tips if you are running ULN with alk over 8. But with nitrates at 25 you would have had to have your alk way up there to get any growth at all i mean wayyy up there. Which is why I said what I said

But it wasn't an sps tank which explains it.

moving on......