transfer existing sand? Yes or No?

[returnofsid]

I'm in the process of setting up a 200 gallon deep dimension. I have an existing 75 gallon reef tank. Everything from the 75 will be transferred to the 200, except a few soft corals, that I don't want in the 200, and a couple of fish that aren't compatible with my future plans...lol.

My question is regarding the sand bed. I originally set up a semi-shallow sand bed, about 2" deep, in the 75. This was about 3 years ago. In that time, the sand bed has been stirred up quite well, by quite a few Nassarius snails and even more so, by my Yellow Watchman Goby/Pistol Shrimp pair. The Pistol Shrimp is constantly moving the sand bed around and piling it up in places.

The 300 has a footprint of 48"X36". The amount of sand in the 75 would give me about 1" or so, if transferred.

However, I've heard both good and bad of re-using sand beds, so am coming here for advice!!!

Any thoughts!!!???

 

[Tadashi]

I would use it as it is seeded with micro and macro life. I always preferred a deep sand bed of 4-6". I would use dead sand for the bulk of the new tank (3" deep). Then place this layer on top to get the 4".

If you have flatworms I would not use the old sand but would be a moot issue if you are using the old live rock which would also have the worms.

If you are transferring the pistol shrimp and to avoid dumping rock on the nassarious that are buried I would place foundation rock on the glass and pour the sand around it. This would also preven the pistol from causing the rock structure from collapsing when it tunnels underneath.

 

[sikpupy]

I would use it, no problems. I would probably pull up the first 1" or so and put that in a bucket. Then followed by the second layer in another. When you replace, replace in opposit order. Probably not needed on a 2" sand bed, but, hey, helps keep the critters in thier prespective layer(s). If you wanted to go a step further, you could rinse the second layer real good and clean it up.

 

[luther1200]

I would scoop out a bunch off the top and rinse it really well in salt water and use it to seed the new bed. But I wouldn't use it all. I'm sure there is some detritus in there.

 

[agoutihead]

I moved the sand with my 40 breeder and the tank crashed, after I rinsed it very well.

I would be cautious, or only use a little to seed and start new.

I lost too much.

 

[returnofsid]

agoutihead, is there a particular reason that you attribute the tank crash to the use of your old sand?

 

[agoutihead]

I 100% know thats what it was.

I moved from the suburbs to downtown. I bought a new tank, had 1/3 new water and kept 2/3 of the old also.

Moved all corals to the BB 30 breeder & everything was doing great.

I didnt lose a single piece, not even xenia, everything went perfect.

about a week later when I had time, I added the sand SLOWLY after it was rinsed a bunch of times in old tank water.

I was very cautious.

And within about a day or two, you could see how yellow the tank was from the amonia.

It was probably 2-3" worth of sand in a 30 breeder. And the sand was less than a year old.

I lost a lot of great coral.

I would never transer more than a couple of scoops of old sand.

The sand is a great filter, but onces its disturbed, its the worst thing ever.

 

[returnofsid]

Hmm, reason I ask is because, in the past, I have transferred sand from one tank to another, with no problems at all. However, I'm still wanting to get the opinions of as many people as possible.

With your situation, during the week that the old sand was not in place, how was that sand being kept? Was it in a bucket? A tank covered with a couple inches of water? I wonder how it would have worked out, had the sand been transferred a week earlier?

 

[davocean]

On an old DSB, I would only use top 1/2"

 

[Tadashi]

I have moved my tanks at least 6 or 7 times from 5-gal to 180-gal (moved 3 times). All moves I used my old sand and also added new sand. If you rinse your sand you will lose a lot of the macro life that is the reason for keeping it in the first place.

I would have a brief cycle (about 3-7 days - short because the live rock and sand still contained most of their bacteria colonies). Toxins were not high but high enough that I would not risk putting the live stock in the tank immediately. I generally had all live stock in holding tanks until the cycle was compelete. The only items that were placed in the tank immediately was the live rock, old sand bed (minus the top 1", so about 3-4"), new layer of sand (about 1"), and finally the top 1". Even after the cycle I would continue to monitor the water parameters to ensure it was not a false cycle.

There is some detritus but not much as a live sand bed takes care of most of that. Also, I generally have skimmers rated for 4x my tank size to pull all those nutrients from the water.

 

[sikpupy]

You have to keep a lot in mind when transfering "old" sand, even new sand. I dumped new sand in a bag, you know, the "live" sand and had a cycle. I wish it was all dry sand I used so I could come back as the town cryer and warn you about that, but, I will not know 100% for sure what cycled but I gurantee it was mostly the wet "live" sand.

Anyhoo.....

1) Yes, your gonna be disturbing the sand bed and crap is gonna fly and get shifted. Even rinsed, there is going to be some old nasty stuff left.

2) #1 rule, never ever add anything to a new tank until you have made sure perams are steady for a week, especially after moving things around, see above.

You could always startscraping around the top layer of sand while it is in the tank. Do thin layers or sections at a time and churn it up a little to get the funk moving aroud and filtered out so you are that far ahead when you go for the transfer. At least the top layer will be nice and clean for you.

 

[jenglish]

Calcium based sand is an excellent phosphate sponge. Once it has bound, you cannot rinse it out. When it is full it may leach. I would use a few heaping scoops unrinsed to transfer fauna, but use dry for the rest

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15370082#post15370082 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by agoutihead
about a week later when I had time, I added the sand SLOWLY after it was rinsed a bunch of times in old tank water.

That week later is likely the cause. Probably had a lot of die off in the sand with enough problematic stuff left despite the rinsing.

I've moved tanks with DSB's on several occasions. Reused the sand on all those occasions with no issues. If the sand is in good shape, I would reuse it. You want to move it fairly quickly, i.e no standing around for hours at a time in a bucket. I'd also scoop it out using a net while there is still some water in the tank, this will let you rinse/drain out a fair amount of detritus and clean the sand up a bit

 

[agoutihead]

I cant say for sure exactly how everything went down.

But what I think can be learned from this is you WILL have some form of a cycle when you transfer sand beds.

Just make sure you transfer sand first and then coral after its done cycling.

 

[Jorober]

There is nothing wrong with using an old sand bed in a new tank. It sounds to me that the problem that people have had with tanks crashing from using it is because the sand was not kept alive. There are tons of micro and macro organisms in the sand. If the sand is not kept in a natural environment all these organisms will die. In other words, the sand needs to be kept in appropriately warm, and water moving storage tank. Then there will be minimal die off, and thus no ammonia spikes. If the sand is moved from one tank to the next in the same day, there will be no problems. I would recommend only using live sand to make up the difference from what you have to what you want. Using dry sand would cause a big cycle to happen.

 

[Jorober]

BTW - all of my tanks sat in the same spot as my existing tank. I moved EVERYTHING into each new tank on the same day, and I've never had a problem with it at all. When going from my 135 to the 180g, I added all of my old sand (about five gallons) and about twice as much new live sand (bagged with water). Never had a cycle from it, and all corals did just fine.

 

[jenglish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15374422#post15374422 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jorober
There is nothing wrong with using an old sand bed in a new tank. It sounds to me that the problem that people have had with tanks crashing from using it is because the sand was not kept alive. There are tons of micro and macro organisms in the sand. If the sand is not kept in a natural environment all these organisms will die. In other words, the sand needs to be kept in appropriately warm, and water moving storage tank. Then there will be minimal die off, and thus no ammonia spikes. If the sand is moved from one tank to the next in the same day, there will be no problems. I would recommend only using live sand to make up the difference from what you have to what you want. Using dry sand would cause a big cycle to happen.

Using dry sand will not cause a cycle if there is any live rock used. If the sand is not that old or has not absorbed much PO4 it can be reused. I have reused sand in the past. But sand beds have a limited life span and many people get less than 5 years out of one before needing to replace it. It seems like this would be a good time to go ahead and replace it if it is more than a couple of years old. If you rinse it you sort of defeat the purpose of using live sand. The "new" live sand you buy in the store is junk IMO, you are basically paying for shipping water and phosphates. If you can get real live sand from an established tank it helps get the sand be established.

 

[zooty]

Tagging along

I'm up-sizing from a 75 to 180 and want to transfer some sand.

We are using dead sand to fill the 180 along with live and dead rock and letting the tank cycle.

Then adding the livestock, the rest of the rock & corals and some of the sandbed. The sand in the 75 needs to be screened though since we originally had crushed coral too but don't want that in the new tank.

Sounds safe?

 

[Ritten]

I always use quite a bit of my old sand during a transfer, but I keep shallow sand beds ( 1 1/2") and vacuum the bed every water change (1x) week. I also don't use any sand that I have not been able to get to to vacuum (such as under rocks) and never had any problems.

 

[DidYouSayReefer]

I will be moving all of my sand next week from my 29 to 110. I am confident it will be fine. I will let you know if I have any issues.