Tropical Play Sand From The Caribbean
- Thread starter BuyThisRock
- Start date
I know that it does not matter if it passes the fizz test - I was just pointing it out so he knows exactly what he is getting based on composition, particle size etc. Positives and negatives.
Positives - it is nice and white, cheap
Negatives - Not Ca based (if that is what you are looking for), varying grain size, potential milky water, possibly not suitable for a good DSB, possibly not suitable for sand sifters.
Adam asked about a sand good for a DSB. This one just may not be right for it due to the varying grain size. Some of the particles are quite large. Larger than the "Special Grade" sand.
I still plan to use it and will report my results. I only do a SSB, so my results may not represent how a DSB would function with this sand.
Positives - it is nice and white, cheap
Negatives - Not Ca based (if that is what you are looking for), varying grain size, potential milky water, possibly not suitable for a good DSB, possibly not suitable for sand sifters.
Adam asked about a sand good for a DSB. This one just may not be right for it due to the varying grain size. Some of the particles are quite large. Larger than the "Special Grade" sand.
I still plan to use it and will report my results. I only do a SSB, so my results may not represent how a DSB would function with this sand.
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It won't "buffer" however it does very slowly disolve and supplement from what I've read-- not really much-- perhaps some trace elements that would be beneficial.
Back to Adam's questions---
Sand bed calculator-- http://reefcentral.com/calc/SandBed.php
Gary's only had some aragonite "special grade reef sand" the last I checked-- 1-2 mm grains (big for a DSB) and it was about $28 for a 40 pound bag.
Back to Adam's questions---
Sand bed calculator-- http://reefcentral.com/calc/SandBed.php
Gary's only had some aragonite "special grade reef sand" the last I checked-- 1-2 mm grains (big for a DSB) and it was about $28 for a 40 pound bag.
bigdaddyadam
New member
I will probably look for some of the southdown, my girlfriend's parents live in Akron so they could probably check around for me, anyone know the name of the store that was carrying it?
also, I intend to use CC balled in nylon to seed the bacteria, I was more interested in getting livesand from an established DSB to get some populations of the sand sifting organisms, I will definately try to salvage as many brittle stars and bristle worms as possible when I move the tank, but some other critters couldn't hurt also
also, I intend to use CC balled in nylon to seed the bacteria, I was more interested in getting livesand from an established DSB to get some populations of the sand sifting organisms, I will definately try to salvage as many brittle stars and bristle worms as possible when I move the tank, but some other critters couldn't hurt also
MACDad
New member
All,
I am quite sure that it passed the vinegar test. I let it set for several minutes, and it was releasing more bubbles than I would think were trapped in the sand. I will retest tonight to see if I get similar results.
I actually used it for the bottom 2-3 inches of sand in my 29 gallon. I then put the "good" stuff (expensive stuff) on top. I can't answer to the buffering issue. I do think it is sufficient for a DSB, as I have air bubbles in the sand more than an inch under the surface. This tells me that something is happening to create this air, perhaps it is waste from anaerobic bacteria. I have many bristleworms and pods crawling all over this stuff. It doesn't seem to harm them any.
I do not have sand sifting critters, so I am not sure about whether it will scratch them or not.
The dust settles if you turn on the power heads and pumps. It took about 4 hours when I added it to the refugium on my 75. Works great for me guys.
If you want a DSB and don't want to spend more on sand than on the tank itself, I believe this is good stuff. If you have money to throw away, then buy the caribsea sand... I, for one, don't have that kind of money.
Fred
I am quite sure that it passed the vinegar test. I let it set for several minutes, and it was releasing more bubbles than I would think were trapped in the sand. I will retest tonight to see if I get similar results.
I actually used it for the bottom 2-3 inches of sand in my 29 gallon. I then put the "good" stuff (expensive stuff) on top. I can't answer to the buffering issue. I do think it is sufficient for a DSB, as I have air bubbles in the sand more than an inch under the surface. This tells me that something is happening to create this air, perhaps it is waste from anaerobic bacteria. I have many bristleworms and pods crawling all over this stuff. It doesn't seem to harm them any.
I do not have sand sifting critters, so I am not sure about whether it will scratch them or not.
The dust settles if you turn on the power heads and pumps. It took about 4 hours when I added it to the refugium on my 75. Works great for me guys.
If you want a DSB and don't want to spend more on sand than on the tank itself, I believe this is good stuff. If you have money to throw away, then buy the caribsea sand... I, for one, don't have that kind of money.
Fred
bigdaddyadam
New member
john, the purpose of a DSB is not to buffer the water, the pH would have to drop to a VERY low level for that to matter because it only starts to break down when pH is much lower than what is healthy for our livestock, and then who cares if it buffers anyway.
the dsb serves to convert nitrate to nitrogen in the anaerobic layer deep in the bed. additionally it provides a place for many small organisms to thrive which then in turn become food for reef inhabitants, especially corals and fish.
I am looking into it for the reason that I don't want a BB tank, it's ugly for one, and secondly it lacks a lot of the smaller inverts that the reef needs. I also don't want CC as I have read and also learned from the experience of using CC that is is nothing more than a detritus trap, basically causing massive pollution in the tank. a sandbed requires no siphoning, unlike the crappy CC, it also stays nice and clean and will actually HELP to process waste instead of just accumulating it.
from the reading and discussion I have had with Dr. Ron the main things that are important for a DSB is the sand itself and the organisms in the sand.
first off you have to have the right sand...very small, sugar-sized grain, so that in the lower levels their is very lilttle or no oxygen, that is where the bacteria that convert nitrate to nitrogen live...too big a sand grain and they will not thrive and the bed will not work...by the same token if the bed is not deep enough, at least about 4 inches deep, then oxygen will be present and the bed will not work, at least not to convert nitrate...finally Ron pointed out that most important to the success of the bed is the worms and such that live in the sand...they stir the bed in their search for food...allow small amounts of waste to move down into the anaerobic parts of the bed...they also keep the sand from clumping together and thus allow the nitrogen to bubble back up in small amounts instead of accumulating in the bed itself
so basically the DSB acts as an additional filter material for converting nitrite to nitrate, and also helps to covert nitrate to harmless nitrogen lower in the bed, and also provides food for the tank.
but if you have a sand bed that is too shallow, made of sand that is too large or of varying sized sand, or missing the worms and critters that stir the sand, then basically you are back to what crushed coral is, a trap for waste that eventually leeches that waste back into the rest of the tank
additionally what Ron told me was that you really should probably use argonite sand because it doesn't have as sharp of edges and because it is available in the very small grained size, othlitic sized, that is needed...non-argonite large particle, not othlitic sand is fine for a decorative sand bed that does nothing...but I need the real stuff for a fully functional DSB
the dsb serves to convert nitrate to nitrogen in the anaerobic layer deep in the bed. additionally it provides a place for many small organisms to thrive which then in turn become food for reef inhabitants, especially corals and fish.
I am looking into it for the reason that I don't want a BB tank, it's ugly for one, and secondly it lacks a lot of the smaller inverts that the reef needs. I also don't want CC as I have read and also learned from the experience of using CC that is is nothing more than a detritus trap, basically causing massive pollution in the tank. a sandbed requires no siphoning, unlike the crappy CC, it also stays nice and clean and will actually HELP to process waste instead of just accumulating it.
from the reading and discussion I have had with Dr. Ron the main things that are important for a DSB is the sand itself and the organisms in the sand.
first off you have to have the right sand...very small, sugar-sized grain, so that in the lower levels their is very lilttle or no oxygen, that is where the bacteria that convert nitrate to nitrogen live...too big a sand grain and they will not thrive and the bed will not work...by the same token if the bed is not deep enough, at least about 4 inches deep, then oxygen will be present and the bed will not work, at least not to convert nitrate...finally Ron pointed out that most important to the success of the bed is the worms and such that live in the sand...they stir the bed in their search for food...allow small amounts of waste to move down into the anaerobic parts of the bed...they also keep the sand from clumping together and thus allow the nitrogen to bubble back up in small amounts instead of accumulating in the bed itself
so basically the DSB acts as an additional filter material for converting nitrite to nitrate, and also helps to covert nitrate to harmless nitrogen lower in the bed, and also provides food for the tank.
but if you have a sand bed that is too shallow, made of sand that is too large or of varying sized sand, or missing the worms and critters that stir the sand, then basically you are back to what crushed coral is, a trap for waste that eventually leeches that waste back into the rest of the tank
additionally what Ron told me was that you really should probably use argonite sand because it doesn't have as sharp of edges and because it is available in the very small grained size, othlitic sized, that is needed...non-argonite large particle, not othlitic sand is fine for a decorative sand bed that does nothing...but I need the real stuff for a fully functional DSB
bigdaddyadam
New member
okay, I take that back, according to Calfo, fine grain, meaning sugar-grained sized or very close to it, argonite sand does have a great effect on buffering, sometimes being so soluable that it has a half-life of 18-24 months in tank, meaning half has dissolved in as little as a year and a half...calcite sand, and calcite based media like CC however dissolves at much lower pH than argonite and is thus basically useless for buffering
selgado
Premium Member
Oh yeah that's what it was. Aragonite based sands buffer and dissolve better. I always wanted do oolithic sand in my system. That stuff is so white and the particles are so fine. I bet it would look killer in a tank.
I've got a question about PH. Isn't the PH in the sand bed much lower than the rest of the tank because of the anaerobic activity going on? And wouldn't that make sands break down faster?
I've got a question about PH. Isn't the PH in the sand bed much lower than the rest of the tank because of the anaerobic activity going on? And wouldn't that make sands break down faster?
LOL - I saw some beautifully colored and evenly sized sugar grain sand last night at a restaurant. It was outside in the ASH TRAY 
I wanted so badly to reach in to grab a handful for the fizz test! I think my hubby might have thought I was strange. I still might return to get a sample. If it works, I'd call the restaurant and beg them to sell me some.
I wanted so badly to reach in to grab a handful for the fizz test! I think my hubby might have thought I was strange. I still might return to get a sample. If it works, I'd call the restaurant and beg them to sell me some.
MACDad
New member
That's too funny Jen!
Dwayne, that sounds catchy. When asked why I am called Fizz, I can explain that it has something to do with farting in the bathtub
Tim, I may be a geek, but I haven't progressed to a point of buying and wearing a fezz!
Those little cars they drive are really cool though. Maybe we could all buy those coolers and fezzes and parade around Findlay
Dwayne, that sounds catchy. When asked why I am called Fizz, I can explain that it has something to do with farting in the bathtub
Tim, I may be a geek, but I haven't progressed to a point of buying and wearing a fezz!
Those little cars they drive are really cool though. Maybe we could all buy those coolers and fezzes and parade around Findlay
Dubbin1
Active member
If that was the case then we would call you bubbles. Speaking of farting, I better go now<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7520864#post7520864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MACDad
When asked why I am called Fizz, I can explain that it has something to do with farting in the bathtub
OK - I can admit when I'm wrong. I retested with a smaller amount of sand and was careful not to agitate it. It DID fizz - but slightly.
Today, I found another sand at the "Sandman" on Airport Hwy. It is called "manufactured play sand". They said that it was pulverized limestone. You can buy it by the 50 lb bag and by the truckload (if you have that big of a tank). It looks similar to the Durascape. However, the grains are smaller. The color is a bit darker. It fizzed in the same manner as the Durascape.
Durascape - Whiter, larger grains, is more milky when first exposed to water
Manufactured play sand - Not as white, smaller grains, less milky
The left is the durascape and the right is the manufactured play sand.
Today, I found another sand at the "Sandman" on Airport Hwy. It is called "manufactured play sand". They said that it was pulverized limestone. You can buy it by the 50 lb bag and by the truckload (if you have that big of a tank). It looks similar to the Durascape. However, the grains are smaller. The color is a bit darker. It fizzed in the same manner as the Durascape.
Durascape - Whiter, larger grains, is more milky when first exposed to water
Manufactured play sand - Not as white, smaller grains, less milky
The left is the durascape and the right is the manufactured play sand.
