True or False, did this REALLY and TRULY happen ?????

MUCHO REEF

2003 TOTM Recipient
Premium Member
A pharmacist who is a local well known keeper/grower of zoanthids and palythoas had an idea, so he decided to act on that idea and this is what happened.

His goal was to collect 100 of the brightest most colorful zoas and palys for his new 300 gallon reef tank. Not wanting to wait forever for maximum coverage and growth, he sought ways to rapidly increase his polyp count. He won't say how, but he got a hold of 10 ml of Synthetic Human Growth Hormones not yet approved by the FDA and injected various amounts into ten 5 polyp frags each attached to a 4" x 4" rock on March 1, 2010. He then placed each of the rocks along the front of his reef tank to make and notate daily observations along with photographic updates on a daily basis at the EXACT same time each day. He went so far as to run a time lapsed underwater camera on 2 of the colonies 24/7 as he ran his moonlights throughout the experiment to record for the first time ever, real time growth as it happened.

On March 3, just 48 hours later, he noticed new growth of 1 to 2 polyps on 8 of the 10 rocks he seeded. To his surprise, on March 6, the eight rocks now had 6 new polyps each, the other 2 rocks begin to catch up and both were now 1 polyp shy each of the exact same amount of growth. This growth patterned continued and on April 3, just one month later, 9 of the 10 rocks were now 100 % completely covered and were now growing onto the substrate. He took a total of average polyp growth on each rock by photographing each rock and counting the polyps individually from the photograph. He had an average of 246 zoanthid polyps on each of the 5 zoa rocks he seeded, and an average of 180 palythoas on the 5 paly rocks he seeded. The palythoa count was much less as the polyps themselves were bigger. If that wasn't shocking enough, all of the polyps on each of the 10 rocks were much larger, more colorful then they were when taken from the mother colonies.

Now here's the most shocking thing he discovered, he duplicated the same results in April and May of this year !!!!!!!!

Before I share the results on Wednesday at 9 PM eastern time, here's the question. Did or didn't it truly happen? Fact or fiction? Possible or impossible? You may think you know the answer, but I have something sitting in front of me and I will post it in 3 days. You may really think you know the answer.....but do you? What say you?


Mucho Reef

PS, There was something else he placed in the water that each of you have in your medicine cabinet or should have I should say. He believes it caused the ????? ????? within the ??????????? ????? to mutate, hence the exponential growth. HMMMMMM !!!!

The answer is hidden within this thread.
 
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Sounds like an awesome movie I would watch at 2 in the morning on the Sci Fi channel so I'm going to say it never happened.(Along with my moonlights on as I watched my tank out of the corner of my eye)
 
I think it's plausible. With our general lack of understanding surrounding our oceans and the life they support, who knows what we could stumble upon. It does sound a little far fetched, but not impossible. If it is true, where can I get some HGH, I'm going to start injecting my red hornets and retire next year.:)
 
I think he just gave em some love. He talked to em, gave em a back massage and one thing led to another and oops......babies.
 
I think it's plausible. With our general lack of understanding surrounding our oceans and the life they support, who knows what we could stumble upon. It does sound a little far fetched, but not impossible. If it is true, where can I get some HGH, I'm going to start injecting my red hornets and retire next year.:)


Ben tied a key to a kite, and.....!!!!
 
There are possibilities in that real Mooch, if I remember seeing pictures of reefers from Europe using HGH on their SPS tanks and they were growing like crazy with sick looking colors.
 
I think he just gave em some love. He talked to em, gave em a back massage and one thing led to another and oops......babies.

Give us a serious opinion. I really want to know what you guys think. This is NOT a GOTCHA question either way. I really want to know what you think for a reason. Just look at all of the advances and discoveries made in this hobby by pros and layman alike. What's your opinion?

Mucho Reef
 
"but I have something sitting in front of me and I will post it in 3 days."
"The answer is hidden within this thread."

Could be real?

"Just look at all of the advances and discoveries made in this hobby by pros and layman alike"

"PS, There was something else he placed in the water that each of you have in your medicine cabinet"

Vit C?
 
Give us a serious opinion. I really want to know what you guys think. This is NOT a GOTCHA question either way. I really want to know what you think for a reason. Just look at all of the advances and discoveries made in this hobby by pros and layman alike. What's your opinion?

Mucho Reef

Ok, Im gonna go True. Why not its a hormone, probably similar to the ones we use in livestock.

Mucho, are you thinking about trying it?
 
If it is true, and I knew about it, I would have already tried it, right? ( I WAS NOT TRYING TO BE SMART MOUTH EITHER ) But the question still remains....is it true? Engage the topic with your logic or reasoning. Saying yes or no is to easy, what do you think?
 
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Whether or not it happened is one question, which yes, someone could have done this and attributed the increase in growth of their z and p's to HGH, wrong assumption.

It is however UNTRUE, with regards to HGH causing the polyps to grow. It is something else, which you indicated you will be sharing later. I find it hard to believe that HGH, which regulates cell activity in a mammalian cell, with specific receptors on the surface and complex interactions within a cell's DNA, has a receptor on zoanthids/palys and can regulate their cell cycles.

It appears from what you have written that the HGH was injected into the polyps. HGH is a peptide that is water soluble and can not cross the plasma membrane of a cell by diffusion. Entry into the cells of the polyps is not provided by simply injecting it into the polyps.
 
So you're saying it is highly possible? You're saying the rapid proliferation which resulted in the dramatic growth of over 250 polyps in 30 days is highly possible? But you wouldn't attributed it to the HGH? Hmmm, but what about the interaction, or inter-reaction of the two?

What would cause a mammalian cell to mutate and result in exponential growth?

You're half way there. But you are speaking of known FDA, tested, regulated and approved HGH. See the end of the 3rd line of the 2nd paragraph. This is untested and not yet regulated HGH. He's a part-time pharmacist on the weekends. It's his day job which affords him the opportunity to get his hands on and test this theory. If true, it is no longer a theory,............it's a goldmine.


Mucho Reef
 
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Pharmacist spend a significant amount of training understanding the mechanisms by which cells and drugs interact (this covers vast numbers of drugs for multiple different actions). This would include things such as what does penicillin bind to in bacteria to kill it and what do bacteria do to change their cells, so that they have resistance. So ..... his training easily provides him with a knowledge base that extends outside of human and mammalian cells. He could just work in a research facility and have access to different compounds.

I am not talking about FDA approval, as many medications, antibiotics/chemotherapy, etc are used for things everyday that are not approved uses by the FDA. I am also not talking about FDA approved drugs, as whether FDA approved or not you are boiling this down to a simple cell and hormone interaction and called this synthetic human growth hormone, whether FDA approved or not, tested or untested you are trying to make something synthetic to get into a mammalian cell that is a peptide, it needs a receptor in order to effect some change within specific genes of the cell. That receptor for a HUMAN hormone, as well as the analogous genes, will not be there on z and p's. This does not even get to the idea of stability of a hormone (that is a peptide) that you want to give to a human, being put into a saltwater environment. If the pH of humans was 8.1-8.5, you would be checking it right after they had died.

If you alter what you call what is being given, that may change the response, but a speicific type of hormone (Human Growth Hormone), directed at a specific kind of cell (mammal), to regulate a specific cell function (growth), made of something that is a peptide (Growth hormone, not fat soluble, therefore can't diffuse across the cell membrane), this will not work in a zoanthid and paly tested or not. So if you are actually wanting to test and make a drug that effects human, you would have to at least realize the drug needs to be built to fit within the parameters to be synthetic HGH, mainly it will bind a receptor on human cells or at least mammailian cells, ie mouse, rabbit..Now if you just took something (without taking into accout the particular cell you targeted and specific results you wanted) that you didn't specifically design for humans and wanted to call it synthetic HGH and haven't tested it yet in humans, but it made the z and palys multiply, well that is different. I can tell you that you now have something that you will not be able to use or call synthetic Human Growth Hormone.

But he put something else in the water .....
 
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