I have a black true percula clownfish and orange one. I had read that they are not sexually dimorphic and that when two were together the larger one would form the female organs? I was wondering if they were a pair and if/how they could become mated? The larger black sometimes nudges the orage and they stay real close together.
true percula mating
- Thread starter muitroc
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duncaholic
New member
if you have 1 fish that's all black with white bars and possibly a little orange on the face, that is an ocellaris not a perc. This color variant is found in the Darwin region of Australia, but still the same species as the orange and white one. Assuming your orange and white is also an ocellaris, they can and do breed. I have a pair that's breeding right now, and the offspring are generally called mochas. Sex determination in clowns is very straightforward. They are all born male, then the nost aggressive fish in a group or pair such as yours will change sex t0 female and outgrown the male significanrly. Males can then go on to take up the top spot and become female if the opportunity presents, but once female, clowns do not change back to males.
The size difference is the principle dimorphic feature in clowns, and is readily apparent in a sexually mature pair. Behavior is also an indicator, especially early on as pair forming takes place. This behavior is a straightforward competition(sp?) for dominance. Provided the two fish have a significant size differnce at this stage, both stand a very good chance of navigating the sex determination phase without serious injury.
It can take 2+ years for clowns to become a mated pair, but pair bonding can occur at a much younger age. I've seen clowns as young as 7 months exhibiting bonding behavior. If your two are always in close proximity and not aggressive towards one another, then they are likely already bonded.
How old are they? What sizes are they? Do they sleep together?
Please post a pic of your pair!!! It's always great to see other people"s pairs.
The size difference is the principle dimorphic feature in clowns, and is readily apparent in a sexually mature pair. Behavior is also an indicator, especially early on as pair forming takes place. This behavior is a straightforward competition(sp?) for dominance. Provided the two fish have a significant size differnce at this stage, both stand a very good chance of navigating the sex determination phase without serious injury.
It can take 2+ years for clowns to become a mated pair, but pair bonding can occur at a much younger age. I've seen clowns as young as 7 months exhibiting bonding behavior. If your two are always in close proximity and not aggressive towards one another, then they are likely already bonded.
How old are they? What sizes are they? Do they sleep together?
Please post a pic of your pair!!! It's always great to see other people"s pairs.
Thanks for the response.
They sleep together and slap tails together and little cute things clownfish do. The black one does have orange on her throat. I thought that percs and occelaris both had orange on their throats and full black ones of both species were uncommon? Are there distinguishable marks or traces that I can use to differentiate them?
Although I am not exactly sure of the age of them I am completely certain that the female is 3+ yrs.... she is fairly large... especially if she is an occelaris. I would say 3.5". The male is a little over 2" but definitely not a juvenile. Are there water params and a type of year they mate? Details are always helpful.
Ill post pics in my album for you. It is a lost cause for me to try through my phone. Haha
Thanks
Nick
They sleep together and slap tails together and little cute things clownfish do. The black one does have orange on her throat. I thought that percs and occelaris both had orange on their throats and full black ones of both species were uncommon? Are there distinguishable marks or traces that I can use to differentiate them?
Although I am not exactly sure of the age of them I am completely certain that the female is 3+ yrs.... she is fairly large... especially if she is an occelaris. I would say 3.5". The male is a little over 2" but definitely not a juvenile. Are there water params and a type of year they mate? Details are always helpful.
Ill post pics in my album for you. It is a lost cause for me to try through my phone. Haha
Thanks
Nick
duncaholic
New member
There is not really a "black percula". Percs can range from having very little black to nearly all black, but I have never seen one as black as a Darwin Occ. Not saying there's not one out there, but I haven't seen it. I looked in your album and could see your B/W clown well, but couldn't tell anything from the glimpse of your O/W one. Your B/W one is definatley a Darwin ocellaris. IDK about the other one, but the pics below should help you determine.
BTW Darwin Occs are not rare, but they are one of my favorites. The Darwin and the O/W you see below are currently tending a new clutch, so yours can breed. The only advice I can give on getting them to mate is feed heavily, keep tank temp 80F - 83F, take out any other fish or critters that might distract them.
Oh and patience...
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_4314.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_4314.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_4367.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_4367.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_4386.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_4386.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_1398.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_1398.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Hope this helps!!
-Mitch
BTW Darwin Occs are not rare, but they are one of my favorites. The Darwin and the O/W you see below are currently tending a new clutch, so yours can breed. The only advice I can give on getting them to mate is feed heavily, keep tank temp 80F - 83F, take out any other fish or critters that might distract them.
Oh and patience...
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_4314.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_4314.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_4367.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_4367.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_4386.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_4386.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/?action=view¤t=IMG_1398.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy243/duncanaholic/IMG_1398.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Hope this helps!!
-Mitch
Thanks mitch,
I removed the fish momentarily to count the dorsal spines. And they each had ten. Also the o/w has the clear eyes with defined pupil and b/w has a defined pupil but eyes were dark so not sure if that was due to pigmentation or if it was the muddy eyes of occelaris.
If they were of two different genus' would there be any sort of behaviors they would exhibit?
Also my lfs has the black percs with orange throat (not where mine came from) and I found some photos online. Am I completely misinformed?
My livestock in my 90 includes:
2 clowns
1 bi color blennie
1 yellowtail damsel (going to remove when I catch him) any tricks for that would be nice
1 fairy wrasse (thinking about removing and replacing with a diff wrasse specie)
3 peppermint shrimp
I feed frozen mysis and ocean nutrition flakes and a couple days a week let them graze on some dried seaweed rubberbanded around a chunk of live rock
I have only 5 months experience in this hobby so I'm picking up as much as I can everyday via instructional videos, the web, forums, books, and local fish stores and fellow reefers.
I removed the fish momentarily to count the dorsal spines. And they each had ten. Also the o/w has the clear eyes with defined pupil and b/w has a defined pupil but eyes were dark so not sure if that was due to pigmentation or if it was the muddy eyes of occelaris.
If they were of two different genus' would there be any sort of behaviors they would exhibit?
Also my lfs has the black percs with orange throat (not where mine came from) and I found some photos online. Am I completely misinformed?
My livestock in my 90 includes:
2 clowns
1 bi color blennie
1 yellowtail damsel (going to remove when I catch him) any tricks for that would be nice
1 fairy wrasse (thinking about removing and replacing with a diff wrasse specie)
3 peppermint shrimp
I feed frozen mysis and ocean nutrition flakes and a couple days a week let them graze on some dried seaweed rubberbanded around a chunk of live rock
I have only 5 months experience in this hobby so I'm picking up as much as I can everyday via instructional videos, the web, forums, books, and local fish stores and fellow reefers.
duncaholic
New member
EDIT: just looked at your album again and I am positive that your black and white is an Ocellaris. 100% would bet my favorite coral mother colony on it....search darwin ocellaris on the web.
To be fair, it's really hard to tell exactly how many spines they have. Even with a great photo or close up live view. And like most rules, the spine count is a general rule, not a law. If you look closely at the pics I posted, the Ocellaris pic looks to have 10 spines, but that's because the last one is so tiny that without having a great deal of experience, it is very difficult to see. Then check out the last pic of the small true perc. In that pic it looks like their are 9 spines, when in fact their are 10. I guarantee you that your black and white is an Ocellaris though. No question. This confusion is very common in this hobby as the words Ocellaris and Percula are the scientific names of two distinct species of Amphiprion (anenome fish...clownfish). Ocellaris and Percula are very closely related species and can be difficult to distinguish. The problem comes in the way they are marketed. In most LFS you will find clowns marketed by common names like percs, falsies, occs, false percs, black percs, etc.... I know from experience...sometimes very painfull experience... that many LFS owners and employees can't tell the difference between the two themselves. It is common knowledge that the Darwin black and white is an Ocellaris, and does not look even remotely similar to the most melanistic percula (blackest perc) I've ever seen, so for stores to be selling those as black percs seems odd. Actually it almost seems a bit dis-honest. Truley melanstic percs are rare, and bring a premium price. They are generally referred to as Onyx clowns. To me, these type of distinctions are meaningful because I do breed clowns, but for most hobbyists, I would say whether Perc or Occ, either way, you chose a great clown. Both species are a lot of fun and have tons of personality. They won't get too big for your tank, They won't get too aggressive (unless they do spawn in which case they will get very agro in their territory) and they are hardy. If you really want to know take the best pic you can of each and post them in the anenomes and clownfish forum. Ask for an ID. You will learn a lot...
As for behaviorial differences...every clown is a little different from every other clown. Nothing substantial along species lines though in my experience.
As for breeding, Occs and Percs have been known to inter-bred and have done so for many different people. With your fish being as old as they are, judging by your size eztimates, and bonded nicelyl, I wouldn't be surprised if they did mate. They might well be affected by the wrasse and the damsel. If you really want to breed them, the best plan is to put them in their own bare bottom tank with no distractions. This is very boring though, and I don't get the sense that you're looking to go full on into breeding. Correct me if I'm wrong on that because if that's what you want to do, I can steer you to some threads here on RC that will give you a crash course. If you just want to enjoy your tank and hopefully someday come home and find a nice nest of bright orange clown eggs, then patience and plentifull feedings are the key.
Edit #2 as far as getting your damsel out, search fish trap here on RC a lot of people use a 2 liter bottle fashioned into a makeshift trap. It works well, but I don't have one lying around to take a pic of.
-Mitch
To be fair, it's really hard to tell exactly how many spines they have. Even with a great photo or close up live view. And like most rules, the spine count is a general rule, not a law. If you look closely at the pics I posted, the Ocellaris pic looks to have 10 spines, but that's because the last one is so tiny that without having a great deal of experience, it is very difficult to see. Then check out the last pic of the small true perc. In that pic it looks like their are 9 spines, when in fact their are 10. I guarantee you that your black and white is an Ocellaris though. No question. This confusion is very common in this hobby as the words Ocellaris and Percula are the scientific names of two distinct species of Amphiprion (anenome fish...clownfish). Ocellaris and Percula are very closely related species and can be difficult to distinguish. The problem comes in the way they are marketed. In most LFS you will find clowns marketed by common names like percs, falsies, occs, false percs, black percs, etc.... I know from experience...sometimes very painfull experience... that many LFS owners and employees can't tell the difference between the two themselves. It is common knowledge that the Darwin black and white is an Ocellaris, and does not look even remotely similar to the most melanistic percula (blackest perc) I've ever seen, so for stores to be selling those as black percs seems odd. Actually it almost seems a bit dis-honest. Truley melanstic percs are rare, and bring a premium price. They are generally referred to as Onyx clowns. To me, these type of distinctions are meaningful because I do breed clowns, but for most hobbyists, I would say whether Perc or Occ, either way, you chose a great clown. Both species are a lot of fun and have tons of personality. They won't get too big for your tank, They won't get too aggressive (unless they do spawn in which case they will get very agro in their territory) and they are hardy. If you really want to know take the best pic you can of each and post them in the anenomes and clownfish forum. Ask for an ID. You will learn a lot...
As for behaviorial differences...every clown is a little different from every other clown. Nothing substantial along species lines though in my experience.
As for breeding, Occs and Percs have been known to inter-bred and have done so for many different people. With your fish being as old as they are, judging by your size eztimates, and bonded nicelyl, I wouldn't be surprised if they did mate. They might well be affected by the wrasse and the damsel. If you really want to breed them, the best plan is to put them in their own bare bottom tank with no distractions. This is very boring though, and I don't get the sense that you're looking to go full on into breeding. Correct me if I'm wrong on that because if that's what you want to do, I can steer you to some threads here on RC that will give you a crash course. If you just want to enjoy your tank and hopefully someday come home and find a nice nest of bright orange clown eggs, then patience and plentifull feedings are the key.
Edit #2 as far as getting your damsel out, search fish trap here on RC a lot of people use a 2 liter bottle fashioned into a makeshift trap. It works well, but I don't have one lying around to take a pic of.
-Mitch
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