Tunze Osmolator Issue

[Stupidhatmatt]

So, I purchased the Osmolator two days ago and since then it's been nothing but issues. When I first installed, I would get 4 blinking red lights and alarms after a few hours ago. After this I cleaned the sensor and re-installed. Since then it would be fine all day but upon checking in the morning the skimmer would be overflowing and the water level would be 1/2" than supposed to be with the controller showing "level". The sensor is currently in the back of the sump and the return water line is 2" above the water level. I am at a loss... I've since had to put the JBJ back in.

 

[Cinder01]

Same issue I am having. just installed last night in my sump. Used (1) magnet for the sensor and plased it at the water level line in my return sump. Then I placed the emergency float on the other magnet and placed it 3"-4" up just for back up. When I plugged it in last night it went through its cycle - showed low light, then pumped for a few seconds, and then showed water level. Woke up this morning and all 3 gallons of RO pumped into the tank and the alarm was on? No bubbles in return, brand new tank so no salt build up or scum? My skimmer was flowing over the top due to water rise so that was fun too.

 

[Stupidhatmatt]

Same issue I am having. just installed last night in my sump. Used (1) magnet for the sensor and plased it at the water level line in my return sump. Then I placed the emergency float on the other magnet and placed it 3"-4" up just for back up. When I plugged it in last night it went through its cycle - showed low light, then pumped for a few seconds, and then showed water level. Woke up this morning and all 3 gallons of RO pumped into the tank and the alarm was on? No bubbles in return, brand new tank so no salt build up or scum? My skimmer was flowing over the top due to water rise so that was fun too.

Yeah, I'm very frustrated... My Acros aren't appreciating the fluctuation in salinity. I spent the extra money on this unit and I'm probably just going to return it and get the Spectrapure. 3rd times a charm, right?

 

[Cinder01]

There is a Tunze rep (Roger) on another Tunze Osmolator Thread. He seems to be helping everyone who has a problem. I sent him a post and I am waiting a reply.

If the water is only 1/2' above where you want it to be in your sump it could be that the pump runs an additional 10 seconds after the water level is achieved. I see other posts where people have been told by Tunze to restrict the flow out of the end of the fill hose with either a small valve or smaller diameter tube so that the amount of water pumping out during that 10 seconds is limited. This would also make it fill up slower during normal function but who cares if it fixes the overfill problem right?

 

[Stupidhatmatt]

There is a Tunze rep (Roger) on another Tunze Osmolator Thread. He seems to be helping everyone who has a problem. I sent him a post and I am waiting a reply.

If the water is only 1/2' above where you want it to be in your sump it could be that the pump runs an additional 10 seconds after the water level is achieved. I see other posts where people have been told by Tunze to restrict the flow out of the end of the fill hose with either a small valve or smaller diameter tube so that the amount of water pumping out during that 10 seconds is limited. This would also make it fill up slower during normal function but who cares if it fixes the overfill problem right?

My issue is that I shouldn't have to do any of this with a $200 ATO! There are so many stipulations with this ATO that I should have read about before I bought it. You can't put in by a magnet, you have to align the magnet on the back or it will sound the alarm, you can't put it by bubbles, etc... I am sure Tunze products are great but my Salinity needs to be stable and my skimmer can't be allowed to spew skimmate back into the tank.

 

[Cinder01]

I totally agree!! I guess my situation is a little different because I am just setting up a new reef. I would be really PO'd if I had corals that were stressed because of this situation or if my skimmer was pouring green skimmate back into my sump. My skimmer was pouring all over this morning but was mostly just cloudy water.

 

[rvitko]

Stupidhatmatt- I can think of a few possibilities-

First, what you describe is normal on a new unit, all LED's now come on, the newest controller has onboard software and runs a self diagnostic to be sure everything is properly set up and in working order, this is running when the 4 LEDs come on, if a red light appears or the alarm sounds after this diagnostic it has failed the test from something being installed incorrectly.

It seems like you have since resolved that and it passed the start up diagnostic.

Cinder01 mentioned the valve, if this is a small tank (below 40 gallons) a valve is no longer needed, on new osmolators, if you open the controller there is a variable speed knob for the pump. You just need to open the controller and turn the pump down for a smaller tank, be sure your hands are completely dry. The controller is preset to fill for 10 seconds past "full" this prevents rapid pump cycling and the accompanying pump noise. It gives just a small overfill which ranges from about a cup to a pint of water depending on how high you pump, you can turn it down so in 10 seconds this will be a couple tablespoons only.

Double check for a siphon, the top off hose must always terminate above the water level of the reservoir, i.e. if your reservoir contains 16" of water, the end of the hose that tops off the tank must always be at least 16" high. If it is 15" for example 1" of water can siphon from the reservoir after the pump turns off.

 

[rvitko]

Cinder01

I would suspect your issue would be either a siphon as described above or microbubbles sticking to the optic sensor. The optic sensor only detects air vs water, it cannot differentiate between bubbles and being out of water. On a new set up the water tends to be highly oxygenated, the skimmer tends to put out a lot of bubbles and the new plastic of the optic sensor will attract these bubbles, rinsing it in hot soapy water or giving it a few days will reduce this tendency, but if there are a lot of bubbles in the sump, this will have to be solved.

Be careful that the magnets are properly set up, the float has a specific shielded position, it is a magnetic switch and will not work if exposed to magnetic fields. It can only be installed in the larger C shaped clip on one of the magnet holders. Also, the bottom of the inside and outside magnets must line up, the outside magnet is slightly smaller to account for tank trim on in tank installs.

 

[rvitko]

Cinder01

I would suspect your issue would be either a siphon as described above or microbubbles sticking to the optic sensor. The optic sensor only detects air vs water, it cannot differentiate between bubbles and being out of water. On a new set up the water tends to be highly oxygenated, the skimmer tends to put out a lot of bubbles and the new plastic of the optic sensor will attract these bubbles, rinsing it in hot soapy water or giving it a few days will reduce this tendency, but if there are a lot of bubbles in the sump, this will have to be solved.

Be careful that the magnets are properly set up, the float has a specific shielded position, it is a magnetic switch and will not work if exposed to magnetic fields. It can only be installed in the larger C shaped clip on one of the magnet holders. Also, the bottom of the inside and outside magnets must line up, the outside magnet is slightly smaller to account for tank trim on in tank installs.

 

[Stupidhatmatt]

Roger, it's on a 60 gallon tank with a 25 gallon sump. Does it overfill every time it refills? The reason I ask is because I tested it 5 times during the day and it stopped every time on the line. When I got back to the office this morning, it was 1/2" higher and the skimmer was overflowing... this has happened two nights in a row. Also, the return line is above the water level

 

[rvitko]

The newest osmolator has the following logic program-

Water drops below the optic sensor, green led blinks until low level is detected for 5-10 seconds (idea is to ignore a wave of momentary turbulence).

Yellow led kicks on and pump is on

Green led comes on with yellow led for 8-15 seconds, water is level but a deliberate overfill is being added, this would not be cumulative since it would not do this again until the water was again below the sensor.

If the water overfills to where the float switch is raised it would sound an alarm and the red too high led is on, the system is shut down until the float lowers

If top off was attempted for 10 minutes and not achieved,the red too low led is on, the system is shut down until power is manually cycled. (The logic is your tank is leaking or there is no water in the reservoir and nothing good can come of continuing to run)

If both too high and too low leds are on and blinking, something has bridged the contact, either water damage or a magnetic field and the system is shut down until serviced, a signal conflict can also cause this, such as a raised float caused by a magnet or snail and a low water level detected by the optic sensor.

If, you are topping of to your sump, the manual generally outlines sensors in the sump, top off hose to the tank as the safest as a siphon is virtually impossible in this scenario, the low head pressure could allow more water to be added in the 10 seconds, the solution is simple, just turn down the pump with the internal potentiometer.

It could also be that a bubble or something affected the sensor and caused this 1/2" change, if their are a lot of bubbles present, the osmolator sensors should be moved to a position free of bubbles. This sensitivity to bubbles is diminished after a few days of use, but is quite pronounced when the sensor is new, new plastic repels water and attracts air and until it is "seasoned" and has a biofilm on it, it will be very sensitive, a hot soapy water rinse does help.

 

[Stupidhatmatt]

Roger, the skimmer is several weeks old. There are not many micro bubbles to speak of. It's very strange, however, that this has happened two nights in a row but not in the daytime. Thank you for your responses but I just don't have the patience to sit and troubleshoot. I can't afford this happening (skimmate dumped into the water, fluctuation in salinity) again so I will have to look at other options that work better in my setup.

 

[Cinder01]

Roger

I will try to wash the sensor and I will make sure the magnets are in correct position. How far away from eachother do the magnets for each Sensor need to be? Can I put the (2) right next to eachother.

If the fill line is out of the water that prevents the syphon from going back to the top off container but does that keep it from syphoning back into the sump? Just having the pump in the bucket and the hose on the floor I syphoned 1 gallon on the floor!! If I have the fill line go out of the bucket on the floor and go up 2.5' to an access hole behind my stand and then back down to 2" above the water line in my sump, could it syphon. When I plug it in in cycles through the start up and pumps for a second or 2 and I do not get syphon at that time so I dont think it would do it during normal run unless it builds up a syphon because it is running longer?

 

[rvitko]

All that matters in terms of a siphon is hose end B is below hose end A, in theory you could route it over the Empire State Building, if the bucket had 10 inches of water and the hose ended 7" above the ground, once primed, 3" of water would siphon.

You want to have it set up so the top off hose is clamped to the edge of your tank ideally, or the sump if you insist and that the end of the hose is not touching the water surface. The water level in the reservoir must be below this end point, that is why the tank is the ideal, most reservoirs will be taller than the average sump.

 

[Cinder01]

Update - got home tonight and indeed there were micro bubbles all over the sensor. As Roger said new systems are notorious for micro bubbles. I got rid of the bubbles in the return chamber and adjusted a few things on skimmer to get less bubble leakage. I am sure I will still get some so I lowered the float switch to just barely above the optical sensor. This way if it happens again over night It will just set off the alarm VS sending 3 gallons of fresh RO/DI into the sump. If this works tonight I think it might be best to just put both sensors on the same magnet so that there is little room for fluctuation in water level? I also made sure the fill hose was above the top off container. I also realized that very small adjustments in my skimmer make a major change in the water level in my sump. I can see how this is going to be a good relationship between my ATO and my skimmer once I perfect it. I would also like to thank Roger for his help today. Great customer service indeed!!

 

[rvitko]

Do keep me posted, if there is something wrong with the unit we will take care of it.