Ugh! STILL can't get Mg and Alk up enough....

gsxrguru2

gsxrguru2

New member
Pretty much ever since my tank has been running- or at least ever since I had the kits (salifert) to test all the parameters, I've been constantly struggling to get my Mg and alk up. Currently, my readings are as follows
Ca: 420 ppm
Mg: 960 ppm
Akl: 6.7 dKH
PO4: 0

I initially attacked the problem using some B Ionic that I bought from another reefer on this site adding about 50ml of each on a daily basis until the bottles were gone. This did absolutely nothing. Now I'm using the Seachem reef builder and Seachem advantage calcium. I've only dosed two times so far but still nothing is budging. I'm currently housing about 15 corals (mix of softies, SPS and LPS) everything seems to be doing well as far as polyps coming out and there being growth. I can't help but think that with better parameters, they'd be doing much better though. Any suggestions? Should I give larger doses, maybe double up the amount each time until the numbers start to swing? As always, thanks for the help everyone!!!
 
James,

Which salt mix are you currently using? Certain salt mixes have different levels of Mg, Ca, etc. I use 60% IO and 40% Oceanic to maintain levels.
 
I'm currently using Kent. I've read posts where people complain that the Kent mix left their dKH at or near zero but although mine doesn't bring the levels up enough, I can't say that they've ever been that low.
 
First you need to raise the magnesium, the proper concentration of magnesium is necessary to prevent the precipitation of Ca and alkalinity.
 
Should I get the mg up by dosing that individually? The advantage calcium says on the bottle: "raises calcium. Maintains mag and stontium." Does that mean it will maintain the mag. right where it is at, or is it supposed to get it up to the proper level and maintain it there?
 
I agree with the above. Raise your Magnesium first. It will take a ton of supliment to reach the desired level of 1250-1350 ppm. ESV-magnesium works well, and won't add any sulfates like epsom salt does. Here is a calculator to help you out:

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

You might want to also consider changing your brand of salt. It could be that you are lowering your ALK by simply doing water changes with Kent salt. There is an ongoing thread about this. It's "sticky" on the reef discussion page. Here is a link:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=807046
 
OMG!!!! 400 tsp of Seachem Reef adv mag???? Is that really what I'm going to need to bring my tank up to proper levels? How much should I add per day? The site says no more than 100ppm, but how much is that if I've got about 125g in my system including sump contents?
 
Yup! You are way low, so it will take a ton. If seachem is the crystals that need to be disoved in makeup water, I'd go with the esv product instead. It's a liquid, so it's much easier to work with and you could just raise your level to 1300 or so over a week or more by dosing every other day. You should test along the way as well.
 
Mabe try testing your system. Alk / Mag / Ca. Then use the calcultor to see how much of each you need to add to reach your target levels. Make sure the mag is OK. If not I would correct this first then go with what the calculator tells you for ALK And CA.
 
I would add about 100 ppm of magnesium per day. The volume will be huge. You can make your own supplement, if you want to save some money.

The B-Ionic will work, although it'll be expensive. For a 125g tank with a fairly low consumption rate, I'd expect to dose 60 ml of each part per day, but likely much higher. There is a DIY equivalent for a 2-part as well, if you're interested. Limewater would also be inexpensive.

These article might help:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

For the moment, some baking soda would be a good way to bring the alkalinity up. Just dissolve in fresh water and pour into the tank. The calculator will help with quantity.
 
I wouldn't bother with the seachem calcium.Yes it works but it will not raise your mag enough.I have been using epson salt for at least 8 months now.It works fine I have had no problems and its very cheap.I just boght the mag flakes so I started using randys part 3.It works great.My mag dropped to 1260 ppm.I brought it up to 1350 in one day using the formula wit hno problems.I do find the mag drops 100 ppm within using the full gallon of the 2 part formulas.It takes me about 2 weeks(maybe 3) to use up the gallon of randys 2 part.I don't know if this is normal for a 150 with 35 gal sump.I also use kalk for top off.My tank looks good and I have no problems growing corals and coraline algea.Cal 460 ppm dkh 9 mag 1350 to 1400 depends.
 
Should there be any concern about sulfates in the epsom salts? I think that it would be the most cost effective way to raise the magnesium by far. I'm just a little worried that with as much as I need to add, it could cause some problems. Any reason to worry?
 
I only started to mix the epson salt with the mag chloride yesterday.It was my first time using both together. I have always used epson salt alone.If I remember Randy said as long as you do water changes,wich I do weekly it would be fine.I think he changed his recipe to better it.I and my other 2 friends use the epson salt with no problems what so ever.Yes you have to use allot of it but its fine.I was kinda freaked out at the amounts I would have to use(according to the calculator).I have never seed a problem.I have a bottle of the seachem.I had purchased it just before finding randys formula.what a waste of money.I find it doesn't raise the mag that much its more for calcium.If you look at the ingredients of mag additives you will see they contain epson salt magnesium sulphate.So why would you want to pay for something that you could buy for 1/3 the price at pharmacy.gsx nice bike.Don't bother wasteing your money on additives make your own.I have great results with Randys 3 part and I bought a case of Mrs.Wages pickling lime so I am set, so far my tank has shown great improvement and I have seen rapid coral growth without needing a calcium reactor.Thanks to Randy we are lucky to have someone who takes his time and energy to help others.I am trying to return the favor.If it wasn't for him and this forum I would be spending a small fortune on additives.
 
I hear what you're saying Steve about this site being a real life saver! Looks like I'll be heading to the store today to get what I need and back to the LFS to return the mag additive I bought yesterday. Thanks a lot for the help everybody!
 
I would worry about epsom salts only if it's being used as a continuous additive. That said, I think it's worth buying some of the inexpensive magnesium chloride. That's what I did, anyway. Still very inexpensive compared to the commercial Mg additives.
 
I also use the ESV Liquid magnesium. I have the epsom salts, went and bought it before Randy's new 2 part formula came out. I have been unable to find the mag flake.

It works for me and saves a ton of money. I like that.

I don't use a reactor of any kind. Just the 2 part. I am going to start dosing kalkwasser. The pump is scheduled for ups delivery today. Oh boy another toy to play with.

Good luck on the tank. You just got a ton of good solid advice, for not a bad price eh?

Regards,

Pat
 
If you raise magnesium by 400 ppm using Epsom salts, you will boost sulfate from 2700 ppm to 4280 ppm. That seems like too much, IMO, although I cannot demonstrate what problem that will cause.

I'd use the magnesium chloride, or Kent or ESV magnesium supplements for that large of a rise.
 
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