Ultra Mega (Outdoor Saltwater Fish Tank and Freshwater Lake)
- Thread starter dbend2001
- Start date
Daniel Reef
New member
Interesting layout. How much acreage do you have?
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I posted some concrete waterproofing info in Nahham's thread. It doesn't cost that much to waterproof what you have, but I suspect evaporation is to blame for much of your net loss. It would be more cost effective to have a seawater tank that can be topped off with water from the ocean. I'm sure you can get a tanker truck to deliver fresh seawater. Keep in mind only pure water evaporates so the salinity will rise quickly to unsafe levels if you do not add freshwater to make up the difference.
Building a deeper tank with proportionally less surface area will help. I also suggest a chlorinet blue uv filter over the tank. This will correct the colour temperature of the water to match that of a reef as well as filter out harmfull uv that is otherwise removed in deep water reefs. The cover will minimize overheating and to a certain extent evaporation. With a larger pond the cover will be out of the question as it will become a giant sail and get taken away by the desert winds
if an ample supply of freshwater is available then your freshwater h
pond is feasible, othrwise you will be litterally throwing your money into the wind
You mentioned relieving the stress on the viewing panels byadding rock structures. This is not the case as displacement has no effect on the hydrostatic pressure of water. Curving the acrylic panels inward does however help with strength/material thickness. Think of it like the compressive strength of an egg as you push evenly from the top & bottom. Deflection us the greatest concern.
If you budget is smaller than your dreams, stretch your imagination with smaller viewing panels. Unique dones and long, short panels located at the top of the display will go along way. A clear acrylic walkway above the tank is another cost effective method of adding cool views and cutting back on evaporation. Just make sure you aren't limiting gas exchange (oxygenation).
Most importantly the biggest money saver is to hire a professional. Your mistakes will cost exponentially more. Even experts must go through a learning curve with unique projects like yours.
Building a deeper tank with proportionally less surface area will help. I also suggest a chlorinet blue uv filter over the tank. This will correct the colour temperature of the water to match that of a reef as well as filter out harmfull uv that is otherwise removed in deep water reefs. The cover will minimize overheating and to a certain extent evaporation. With a larger pond the cover will be out of the question as it will become a giant sail and get taken away by the desert winds
if an ample supply of freshwater is available then your freshwater h
pond is feasible, othrwise you will be litterally throwing your money into the wind
You mentioned relieving the stress on the viewing panels byadding rock structures. This is not the case as displacement has no effect on the hydrostatic pressure of water. Curving the acrylic panels inward does however help with strength/material thickness. Think of it like the compressive strength of an egg as you push evenly from the top & bottom. Deflection us the greatest concern.
If you budget is smaller than your dreams, stretch your imagination with smaller viewing panels. Unique dones and long, short panels located at the top of the display will go along way. A clear acrylic walkway above the tank is another cost effective method of adding cool views and cutting back on evaporation. Just make sure you aren't limiting gas exchange (oxygenation).
Most importantly the biggest money saver is to hire a professional. Your mistakes will cost exponentially more. Even experts must go through a learning curve with unique projects like yours.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Here is a method of affixing aquarium viewing panels. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4037563.pdf
I posted some concrete waterproofing info in Nahham's thread. It doesn't cost that much to waterproof what you have, but I suspect evaporation is to blame for much of your net loss. It would be more cost effective to have a seawater tank that can be topped off with water from the ocean. I'm sure you can get a tanker truck to deliver fresh seawater. Keep in mind only pure water evaporates so the salinity will rise quickly to unsafe levels if you do not add freshwater to make up the difference.
Building a deeper tank with proportionally less surface area will help. I also suggest a chlorinet blue uv filter over the tank. This will correct the colour temperature of the water to match that of a reef as well as filter out harmfull uv that is otherwise removed in deep water reefs. The cover will minimize overheating and to a certain extent evaporation. With a larger pond the cover will be out of the question as it will become a giant sail and get taken away by the desert winds
if an ample supply of freshwater is available then your freshwater h
pond is feasible, othrwise you will be litterally throwing your money into the wind
You mentioned relieving the stress on the viewing panels byadding rock structures. This is not the case as displacement has no effect on the hydrostatic pressure of water. Curving the acrylic panels inward does however help with strength/material thickness. Think of it like the compressive strength of an egg as you push evenly from the top & bottom. Deflection us the greatest concern.
If you budget is smaller than your dreams, stretch your imagination with smaller viewing panels. Unique dones and long, short panels located at the top of the display will go along way. A clear acrylic walkway above the tank is another cost effective method of adding cool views and cutting back on evaporation. Just make sure you aren't limiting gas exchange (oxygenation).
Most importantly the biggest money saver is to hire a professional. Your mistakes will cost exponentially more. Even experts must go through a learning curve with unique projects like yours.
:fish2:
Thanks mr. wilson
The information you provided is valuable and helpful
Your Idea of getting a tanker to get salt water from the sea would be a brilliant solution to supply the tank, plus it will save me time and money!
The tank will be around 31m length and 3m in height and I may want to apply 1m(L)x3m(H) every one meter.
There will be a total of 13x2 PC of (toughened/Tempered Glass) for both sides of the Tank
The thickness of the Glass is 10cm (For safety)
Someone told me I should be safe with 5cm thickness, but I dont feel like risking it.
Your Advice will be helpful
^^
It looks like your project is a sure thing for thread & tank of the month once you get there. As I mentioned in my last post, the thickness of the glass or acrylic is governed by the height of the water above the bottom of the panel. If your panel is 4m high with 1m of water above the top of the panel, then you must calculate for 5m height. If you have 1m deep water below the bottom of the panel and a finished water level at the top of the panel, then you are still working with 4m height for the calculation.
The thickness calculation is to minimize deflection. A 3m panel length will put you in a class of acrylic panels rather than glass due to the room for deflection over the great length. In North America public aquariums and zoos use mostly acrylic viewing panels, while in Europe I found glass to be more common. Some of the glass panels I have seen in Europe were 4m high, but they were only 1m wide in order to minimize deflection. I find these narrow panels distracting with too many vertical lines blocking the view.
When we describe viewing panels we list length/width x height, so I assume your panels are 3m wide x 4m high. I use a firm in Germany to do my panel calculations. You can purchase viewing panels from China at less than half of the cost, but large panels such as these have a high flaw rate even from the most technologically advanced manufacturers. If you choose to go with Chinese viewing panels, I would recommend going there in person and approving each one before they ship them.
Cast acrylic panels will not yellow in the sun's UV light like extruded acrylic panels would. My only concern with using acrylic with your project would be sand blasting from mother nature
Some installers use silicone for affixing acrylic panels, but I prefer to use sealing gaskets. The force of the water is pushing the panel against the body of the tank, so the objective is to create a water-tight seal and not to bond the panel to the wall. Silicone cement does act as a good gasket if you apply a seam that is at least 2" thick in the case of your large panels, but a seal gasket gives you the luxury of tightening and loosening the seal later on to seal leaks and relieve stress. A series of #316 stainless steel brackets and through bolts are used to gently and evenly fasten the viewing panel to the concrete aquarium wall.
You can use epoxy to finish the cement where the panel is to be set, but you don't need it for the interior walls. Instead, you should use a sulphide and calcium resistant marine cement such as BASF Emaco s88c T cement with an admix and top coat like Xypex. Xypex is a chemical that crystalizes within the cement's pore matrix. When you apply it, it migrates into the holes in the cement through a capillary action, then it turns super hard as it crystalizes. This yields a very strong water-proof cement that is impervious to seawater (no spalling). It leaves a smooth finish that works well with sealing gaskets. http://www.xypex.com/
Acrylic is much more clear than even low iron glass. You can use a single sheet where as with glass it requires many laminated layers. Acrylic can be laminated permanently, while glass lamination can become cloudy if the panel is under stress or if water infiltrates between the panels. A 3m wide x 4m high panel is likely to be 30cm thick and will weigh just over a tonne. The panels can be moved into place with a sling and a forklift. It is becoming popular to angle the panels so that the top is closer to the viewer and the bottom is farther away, as if the panel is falling towards you. This orientation minimizes glare and makes photography a lot easier. It also draws the viewer into the exhibit and gives the illusion of greater depth. As I mentioned earlier, leaving an area at the ends with no panels and creating a deeper pool below the panels adds to the illusion of a deep abyss. Another optical illusion is to curve the back of the aquarium so it is wider in the middle, and to angle the two side walls so they fan out towards the back. From a top view, this will look like a baseball diamond.
You can use steel or cement to frame the viewing panels. I prefer steel frames if the cement pillars are narrow and not joined at the top. Nahham has a nice effect with an open concept panel, that is to say no frame on top. This open top configuration requires more bracing along the top panel or thicker material if you want a polished edge. A structural engineer will be able to give you definitive concrete wall thickness, but I would guess 60cm with lots of rebar would be in order, unless the tank is built into the ground.
Good luck with your project.
I should have read this before posting
Thanks Mr.Wilson, as always your information are very valuable to me
^^
I'll provide the exact design layout and some blueprints to help
The Arcylic isnt bad if it doesnt go bad
You are such a life saver
Kudos to you
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
As I mentioned before, I use an aquatic engineering firm in Germany to do my viewing panel calculations. The biggest viewing panel I have worked with was 600 cm long x 220 cm high x 10 cm thick. The panels you are considering are taller, so you will need thicker material, but they are a smaller length so you may be okay with 10cm. They have an engineering program that simulates all of the dimensions you give them. This is also the company I buy my large acrylic viewing panels from when I'm working in Europe. Due to high shipping costs, I buy locally to keep costs down.
It is sad, because I showed this to 4 contractors so far and all of them were unfamilier with this method
I have tried to explain with all I got, but failed to send the message. Seems contractors in the area are tards!
The method is amazing, it will be definetely in the list when i start building.
:bounce1:
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
This is only one method of approach. I linked this one because it is thoroughly described with pictures & PDFs. I install the viewing panels on the inside without the extra acrylic guard they recommend. The mounting hardware I use is very similar however. You are best to hire a local company to build the concrete tank and hire a specialty viewing panel installer for the acrylic. It is hard to find one company that can handle tank construction, filtration, and artistic rock formations. There is usually a compromise.
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