Understanding Ca reactors and pH controllers

[Aquatic Hamster]

I have been looking into calcium reactors and ph monitor/controllers. In doing some reading (and talking with others here in the area) it seems like many people really like the Schuran devices. I went to their website to do research and it does seem to be a well thought out product. The web site is funny as the conversion from German to English is really poor. Its sort of like the English version of 99 Luft Balloons. However I digress.

I have several questions about the devices involved and the actual setup.

What I think I would need:

The Schuran Jetstream1 (I'm assuming around 250 gallons with sump)
A controller that monitors and controls pH, pH probe
A CO2 bottle with needle valve and solenoid

What I think the setup would be:

Setup the Jetstream1 so that it is circulating water from the sump.
The pH controller has the probe in the sump and is attached to the solenoid on the CO2 bottle. When pH drops below the setup threshold on the controller it opens the solenoid and the CO2 is released into the jetstream1 producing calcium. When pH is above the threshold the solenoid closes.

Am I anywhere in the ballpark on this?

Another I question I have involves Alkalinity. By keeping the Calcium and pH at a specific point, does that automatically mean that Alkalinity is in check too?

 

[cwegescheide]

Hey Chad. You really should have your PH probe in the reactor itself. Or have a small cup that the effluent drips into and put the probe in there. If its in the sump it wont work correctly.

As far as the CA and pH question goes, you can sortof tell when your alk is low because I notice my PH drifts up pretty high or higher than normal but by no means if your CA is ok and PH is good then your alk is in the correct range. Atleast that is my experience.

Also I don't think the effluent ball valve adjustments are worth anything. I've finally got sick and tired of fiddling with mine and purchased a rotameter. Basically it has a float in a graduated glass tube that also has a infinatley adjustable screw to control the flow. Its very accurate and finally after literally two years of goofing around with my reactor I'm getting to the point where my alk stays pretty close. I'm hoping to get to the point where the alk is solid. I've had my rotameter for about a month or so now and honing in on the sweet spot. With the combination of the ph controller and the rotameter you should be able to dial it in perfectly (I'm hoping :lol I got an Aquacontroller III and its been a tremendous help monitoring things. Excellent investment for sure.

Have fun,
Chris

 

[mflamb]

Chris,
Any pics of your tank???
Mike

 

[cwegescheide]

Hey Mike,

Yeah I got one!! See my Avatar! Yeah I'll post a couple if you want to see it.. Don't want to derail Chads thread though. I'll Pm ya

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

Well that makes sense concerning the location of the pH probe. I'll have to go back to the diagrams but I'm sure the Schuran will have a place for it.

Do you still dose the Alk part of a 2 part system as needed?

 

[cwegescheide]

Hey Chad. Yeah I do. Every once in a while i still have to adjust my levels with the 2 part stuff. A little bolus every once in a while with calcium or alk depending on what I need... Oh yeah I also top off with kalk to help keep the ph up and the extra benefits (they say) of binding phosphates. I've got my ACIII to switch to kalk top off if the ph drops below 8.2

Also with my Geo reactor (which I wouldn't advise getting one, I've had a heck of a time getting it sealed so it doesn't leak every time I open it) I had to ask for the lid that has a plug for the PH probe. I've also got a PM reactor for my frag tank and FWIW I really like the construction of that unit and NO problems with it leaking.

 

[Warnberg]

Chad, I have it all setup on my tank right now. LOVE IT. I set it, checked it and I have not had to adjust yet.

As far as the probe in the reactor... well yeah to make sure you are getting down to a low enough ph so that the media is melted... but I don't run it this way

Just my 2 cents

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

What pH level is maintained in the reactor to cause the calcium release? I'm assuming that even though you are monitoring the reactor it will maintain the tank at 8.3 through the process. Correct?

 

[Warnberg]

In side the reactor the ph is around 6.2 to 6.4, my monitor is set to turn on the CO2 at 8.4 and it goes off when the tank dips to 8.2. The ph in the tank veries thoughout the day, it depends on how many people in the room, how long the lights have been on, etc....

Checkout this thread... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=397189&highlight=Schuran

Lots of good info in it.

 

[1SickReefer]

I used to own the Schuran 1 reactor. Let me just say it was a purchase to go into the "never buy again" column.

1st, In most cases to get a constant drip you need a peri pump..

2nd, if you break a part, you will be waiting forever to get a replacement. in my case over 2 months!
If it comes defective with a drip/leak it will be the same experience as described above..

3rd, IME, terrible customer support. I waited for weeks for responses to emails etc.

And finally, Schuran did make it right with me by sending my the replacement part free of charge but it was too late in my book.

My experience lasted from 4/30 to 7/8.

you can read about it here...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...age=25&highlight=schuran leaking&pagenumber=1

This is only my exp with Schuran, others may have had a magical wonderful exp with Schuran, I didn't so I thought I would share MY exp.

Happy Trails!
1SR

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8326838#post8326838 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Warnberg
In side the reactor the ph is around 6.2 to 6.4, my monitor is set to turn on the CO2 at 8.4 and it goes off when the tank dips to 8.2. The ph in the tank veries thoughout the day, it depends on how many people in the room, how long the lights have been on, etc....

Checkout this thread... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=397189&highlight=Schuran

Lots of good info in it.

Good info. I'm glad to see 1SR's comments too. I always get very suspicious if there is nothing but glowing reviews. I have had others comment on the problems of getting repair/replacement parts. This is obviously an issue with Schuran.

Back to a setup question I don't really understand yet. A comment was made that the pH probe needs to be in the Ca reactor and you say your reactor is around 6.2 to 6.4. You say your monitor is set to turn off/on when the tank is at 8.2 to 8.4. I don't understand. Do you have 2 pH probes? I'm getting confused.

 

[Warnberg]

No, I run my probe in my sump NOT in the reactor. I had it in the reactor when I dialed it in so I could set the bubble count and get the ph right inside the reactor.

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

I see.

 

[cwegescheide]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8327396#post8327396 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Hamster
Good info. I'm glad to see 1SR's comments too. I always get very suspicious if there is nothing but glowing reviews. I have had others comment on the problems of getting repair/replacement parts. This is obviously an issue with Schuran.

Back to a setup question I don't really understand yet. A comment was made that the pH probe needs to be in the Ca reactor and you say your reactor is around 6.2 to 6.4. You say your monitor is set to turn off/on when the tank is at 8.2 to 8.4. I don't understand. Do you have 2 pH probes? I'm getting confused.

Oh sorry I confused you I have a ACIII that controls when I top off with kalk water and another probe is in the reactor itself. So its two seperate things. When the tanks PH dips below 8.2 or so the controller turns on the kalk water top off to help keep the PH of the tank around 8.3 or thereabouts. I believe at the moment i have the calcium reactor ph set at 6.62 if it gets higher than that the CO2 starts bubbling into the reactor so it stays at 6.62 - 6.61 ph. You can also notice a pretty good difference in alkalinity of the effluent of the reator when you adjust the ph inside of it too. Another good way to tweak the reactor to maintain stable alk in the tank.. Either that or of course adjust the drip rate of the effluent.

Chris

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

Great info guys. Sounds like there can be a few ways to skin this cat. I don't suppose you would have some setup pics available?

 

[cwegescheide]

WILL WORK FOR PINK ZOO FRAG!!! :lol: You know I might actually be interested in selling my PM reactor to be honest. I got it for my 6' frag tank that I have collecting dust in Indy. I just brought it with me down here. If your even interested in that one that is.

But if you get the equip I'd be happy to help you set it up. Just like everything else once you done it its pretty easy. Especially if you get a PH controller.. Then its REALLY easy

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

Ok, Ok. I'm tired of waiting for them to grow. I'll try to do some surgery this weekend and get a grouping for you.

Ok I'm still working out this pH contol thing in my head. If you get the Ca reactor dialed in with the right amount of CO2 so that the pH stays about 6.5, why use the solenoid at all? Or are the reactors so touchy that CO2 has to be varied with a controller?

And with pumping in the reactor water that has a pH of 6.5 won't that have a huge downward affect on the main tank pH?

I know these things work, I just don't know how they work. Know what I mean Vern?

 

[cwegescheide]

Its just an ease of setting up thing really. Its just TOO DARN DIFFICULT to dial the thing in perfectly. If you have a PH meter and a shut off cylinoid off your CO2 bottle you can much easier control the PH of the reactor. If you don't have the PH monitor its very difficult to keep it steady and then you Alkalinity of the effluent goes higher or lower depending then that will lead to not putting enough or putting too much in your tank. Its enough to drive ya nuts trying to keep things stable. Since I have put the rotameter on my reactor (just to accuratley control the effluent flow) and of course I have the ph monitor/shut off too, I have been able to keep my alk rock solid 3.5 meq/l or 9.5 dkh

On a side note I'd be happy to trade you for whatever or I'll give you some bucks

 

[Aquatic Hamster]

Well let me see how the zoo transplant surgery works. I'm hoping they will open tonight and I can take a pic for you.

I spoke with 'another' very knowledgeable source that took some time to talk about Ca reactors and specifically the Schuran. I'm feeling pretty comfortable about what I can do with the device and how I want to setup it up for my particular application. They also disputed the issue of Schuran parts being hard to get. Perhaps US suppliers are now better stocked in general comparied to when the devices were new to the United States.

 

[cwegescheide]

Sounds Good! :thumbsup: