Unsuccessful with SPS corals. :(

[icecool217]

Seems like various factors are affecting your tank, especially with temperature stability and water chemistry. You will find that water changes once a week will do wonders for your tank. Also, make sure that there are minimal debris bothering the sps as well. With a small tank, keep feeding minimal and constantly clean up the water.

 

[rovster]

Deep: It's definitely possible to keep SPS corals in small tanks that are lit by fluorescents. The 20 nano I currently have is an example - there numerous species of SPS in the tank, and all grow like weeds for the most part.

But - I think most others on this forum would echo this thought - "oopsies" aren't permitted if you want to successfully keep SPS. Proper lighting, water chemistry and water flow are all important, of course, but stability is just as critical.

You really can't tolerate swings in salinity from 1.027 to 1.024 in ten minutes because you forgot to add evap makeup yesterday and are correcting the problem. (Please note: I'm not saying that you might've done this, I'm just using it as an example for the diligence required).

The 20 nano I speak of is decidedly low-tech; It's lit by (currently) 2 power compacts, each of 65 watts, the skimmer is a 25-year old design (the original Tunze model that Julian Sprung rather famously used on a 15 gallon in the 1980's), and the salinity, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium are all kept constant in a totally manual manner - with drip jugs. There are no chemical absorbants in this tank (i.e., no GFO nor carbon), no calcium reactor, pretty much no nothing other than a skimmer, heater, lights, and powerheads.

I guess what I'm getting at is that equipment that doesn't work correctly will be a definite problem, but equipment that is just a little different is highly unlikely to cause a radical change in your outcomes.

Granted, the drudgery of constant water tests, vacuuming detritus, doing frequent but very small water changes, spending an hour or more a day observing everything, changing out fluorescent bulbs after 6 months, etc... isn't nearly as much fun as upgrading tanks, lights, reactors and everything else. But it's the foundation of making the whole thing work - the higher-end equipment is largely a convenience that automates some of the tasks at hand.

This is what I would suggest: examine your photoperiod, the color temperature of your T5 HOs, not just the wattage output, the flow profile in your tank and how that flow is distributed, turn your skimmer back on, and do 5% water changes with saltwater that has been heated and aerated for at least 48 hours prior to use, and make a goal to have the salinity and all other parameters that you can measure & adjust not vary at all (at least within the measurement error of the test method) for at least a 2 month period.

It's boring as heck, I know, but fastidiousness is the key to success with the more difficult to keep animals.

Great post. There are deeper issues than just light. Only thing I'll add is make sure you get quality frags. They don't have to be expensive, just proven. That way, if you kill them, you know for certain it's something you're doing. GL!

 

[rich850]

Heating your saltwater while mixing is a bad idea period. From the issues listed here it doesnt sound like you are great with water chemistry so you should probably change it regularly. You could get a wet dry vac to vacuum out the sump and have fresh saltwater mixed ready to pump in. Have you considered dosing kalk?.... it can help maintain your calcium and alk needs while solving some phosphate issues. Vodka dosing? It could help with nitrates and phosphates. Do you know what happens when you take poor water quality and put a stronger light on it? It doesn't make matters better. Don't buy sps buy a bucket of salt and go through half of it before you buy another piece of sps ...that's just my advice on it

P.S. Tek lights are junk compared to an ATI sunpower or powermodule if anyone is sticking with t5s and saw the advice given on t5s

 

[dkeller_nc]

Heating your saltwater while mixing is a bad idea period.

Deep: just a note, this statement, from a chemistry perspective, isn't correct. To properly make seawater, your base water needs to be within 5-10 degrees of 77deg F.

The reason for this is that many ions in the salt mix are fundamentally incompatible, and will potentially precipitate if mixed at a concentration and/or solubility limit that is significantly different than the manufacturer that blended the components has intended.

This is why numerous books will tell you that you shouldn't add the necessary salt to a trash can, then pour RODI on top of it. It's also why trying to mix ASW with 50 degree RODI water is a bad idea - many of the components in the salt mix are well above their solubility limit at these temperatures.

And when you add the water to your tank, you want stability. Having the new water at the tank temperature and circulating for a couple of days prior to adding it greatly minimizes the possibility of precipitation.

 

[DeepThought]

Thank you guys for your responses. Too many good ones to multiquote.

I think a combination of all of you are right. I need to "up my game" so to speak. My husbandry skills are lacking.

I freed up a 25g tote - I can use it to make 20g water changes every week. I already do have a box of salt that I can use.

I think my high temp problems are solved at the moment. My air conditioner is fixed, but I will get a couple of fans anyways to help increase evap and just in case the air cuts off.

I already purchased the photon 48 lights. I understand what new lights do to a tank with nutrient issues. I Also know what old lights do to tanks with nutrient issues. I'm going to slowly light acclimate the tank while I get everything in order.

I'm going to be building that water change system this Summer. Hopefully I'll get it done by the time college starts again this Fall. I'm going to use it to do 40g water changes - and also add about 40g of water to the system to add stability. Of course, it will also have a heater and hooked to the apex.

And I agree, no amount of fancy equipment will make up for good husbandry skills. I guess I just got really lax on everything and complained about it. Having your first kid makes you relaxed on a lot of things. Over the next few months I will be getting back in the habit of good husbandry skills...


Can anyone give me a run-down of husbandry skills that needs to be in practice every day, week, month?

 

[dkeller_nc]

Can anyone give me a run-down of husbandry skills that needs to be in practice every day, week, month?

A comment about the proposed water changes: 40 gallons at a time sounds like way too much for a 75g tank + a 40g refuge. Just my personal opinion, but I never do more than 10% total volume at any one time unless I've an emergency situation (like something has died and has rapidly deteriorated the water conditions).

This is just my "must do" list, others do these things on more/less frequency:

Daily: Clean glass (helps keep nutrient levels down by skimming out the algae); check salinity; check & clean skimmer if necessary; feed fish (4 times/day); feed phyto; check and replace/replenish ATO reservoir if necessary; dose carbon (I use vinegar); Examine all animals for health/status by planting myself in front of tank and observing for (timed) minimum of 30 minutes. Read posts on Reef Central, Reef Builders.

Every 3-4 days: Test alkalinity & calcium; adjust with 2-part if required. Feed Oysterfeast, Rotifeast. Add copepods from separate culture. Change/clean any filtration media if employed (I rarely use filtration, but watch it very closely if it's in the system)

Every week: Change 5% total water volume; vacuum/remove algae if present; check/clean powerhead circulation pumps; clean skimmer body; check pH, salinity, Ca, alk, NO3, PO4, Mg. Make plans for additions of elements if required (usually adjusted over course of next week).

Every month: Check RODI unit status. Check all tank equipment for proper operation (more often if previous history suggests need).

Every 3 months: Replace RODI unit particulate and carbon filtration.

 

[rich850]

Deep: just a note, this statement, from a chemistry perspective, isn't correct. To properly make seawater, your base water needs to be within 5-10 degrees of 77deg F.

The reason for this is that many ions in the salt mix are fundamentally incompatible, and will potentially precipitate if mixed at a concentration and/or solubility limit that is significantly different than the manufacturer that blended the components has intended.

This is why numerous books will tell you that you shouldn't add the necessary salt to a trash can, then pour RODI on top of it. It's also why trying to mix ASW with 50 degree RODI water is a bad idea - many of the components in the salt mix are well above their solubility limit at these temperatures.


And when you add the water to your tank, you want stability. Having the new water at the tank temperature and circulating for a couple of days prior to adding it greatly minimizes the possibility of precipitation.

Yes if your water is 50 degrees you should heat it up. I typically don't have 50 degree water....my point here was you should not be heating water when you are adding salt this is known to cause alkalinity and calcium precipitation ...from a chemistry perspective! I don't know about the 50 degree water I guess because I am in Florida or maybe its from running rodi inside but either way just do some searches on heating while mixing if you can't take my word for it however after its mixed you should heat the water to match your tanks temp

 

[ThorEffex]

Hey, sorry for folowing the thread so late. you should use larger skimmers if you have problems with micro bubbles and noiseless some PVC piping and an elbow form the discharge into the water, and if its not skimming you need to adjust it. I was also reading a comment that you doesed 2 part weekly to raise 40 ppm calcium and 2dkh, I'm a fan of 2 part but I use a doser that puts little bits in through out the day because doing big shots tend to cause problems. Consistency seems to be the key. That said you should smaller water changes because the ph, alk, ca, and other perimeters will change a lot with big water changes depending on the salt. Personally for detritus in the sump i run reactors and use their discharge to stir it up a bit and baste it once a week, and in the display weekly too. Equipment I clean every few months when it looks grungy, but when I get stuck starring at the tank I then to do a once over to make sure every thing is good. For sps lighting is key, LEDs have not let me down yet. A type of GFO and carbon is good to run but watch the amounts you use as they do scrub a lot of nutrients from the water.

Good luck

 

[DeepThought]

Ok, so 10% of 85g is 8.5 gallons. Would a 10g be much better suited? Assuming that I changed 10g weekly.

At least the lighting problem will be solved pretty soon. The photon 48 should be on it's way at the beginning of next week. So, I'm pretty excited.

I'm changing out my mechanical filtration more then I ever have. Thank you for all the husbandry tips and tricks. I'm going to start implementing some of it tonight, since I have time.

One of the reasons why a lot of maintenance doesn't get done is because the whole top of my canopy has to be taken off for me to really get my hand in there to do any work.

Tonight I am going to see about how to hook up my phosphate reactor again to the system using the vinyl that I already have. Hopefully I can put something together. I'm going to use a maxijet 1200 powerhead on my ATO. I'm going to use the small azoo powerhead to run the phosphate reactor. I'm also thinking about cleaning the entire sump this evening and changing the mechanical filtration.

Oh my, it's going to be a long evening, but it will be worth it in the end.

Does anyone have some suggestions for sand maintenance in an SPS reef? I like the look of sand in my tank but it's not completely necessary. I guess I need to start taking some pictures and documenting the progress here on this thread.

 

[rich850]

10 gallons a week is plenty if you can break it into 2 smaller changes it would be even better

 

[DeepThought]

Thanks rich.

SOOOOO

I was doing some NEW routine tank maintenance this evening - and discovered that my NEW 500w finnex heater was putting current into the tank. YIKES!

I took the heater out of the water for a minute to get it out of the way while I was cleaning the sump out and grabbed it with the whole palm of my hand and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTT I felt the electricity start going up my arm!!!!!!

The apex controls the temperature - but it doesn't recognize current going through the tank! YIKES!

No wonder when I was cleaning the display tank glass the other day and my arm touched a little metal, I felt a little electrical tingle.

Maybe now some of the corals that I do have will start looking better and the fish stop acting weird, eh??? lol

 

[ThorEffex]

Lol must be from Canada

 

[DeepThought]

Because I said eh?

Nope... Good ole' redneck from Louisiana.

Thanks for reading along.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Yes if your water is 50 degrees you should heat it up. I typically don't have 50 degree water....my point here was you should not be heating water when you are adding salt this is known to cause alkalinity and calcium precipitation ...from a chemistry perspective! I don't know about the 50 degree water I guess because I am in Florida or maybe its from running rodi inside but either way just do some searches on heating while mixing if you can't take my word for it however after its mixed you should heat the water to match your tanks temp

Perhaps we are saying the same thing. What I'm getting at is that it is best to have the base water at temperature when adding salt, and keeping it at tank temperature, circulating/aerated for 48 hours before using it.

Yes, I've read multiple posts on the subject, they're just incorrect from the explanation standpoint (not necessarily incorrect from the observation standpoint). It is true that having a local high temperature at the heater wall can precipitate calcium, since it is more soluble at colder temperatures than warmer (one of the few substances where this is true). But this is one of the reasons for keeping the water mixing - it drops the local temperature at the heater tube.

 

[DeepThought]

Thank you for all of the clarifications, but I am not going to be heating 10g of water for a water change. I just don't think 10g of 85g with a 5*F difference in temp will affect the tank much, if at all....


So, I made a bunch of changes to the tank yesterday.... this morning the tank looks pretty good. I put the powerhead back in the tank that doesn't have the thing broken. It seems to be putting out enough water flow though not to be worried for a little while.

A new powerhead purchase is in the works though. I hope to have a couple controllable tunze's pretty soon. Any recommendations?

 

[alazo1]

Deep, for sure there is a lot of good advise on this thread. Some of the husbandry suggestions are pretty much standard. However, there are many ways to run a reef tank. One example is water changes, though most change approximately 10% every few weeks, there are others that change every few months. It sounds like you don't have a lot of time on your hands so if I were you I would keep your system as simple as possible and not get too caught up on adding a bunch of other things.

I just don't think 10g of 85g with a 5*F difference in temp will affect the tank much, if at all....

I agree.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Thank you for all of the clarifications, but I am not going to be heating 10g of water for a water change. I just don't think 10g of 85g with a 5*F difference in temp will affect the tank much, if at all....


So, I made a bunch of changes to the tank yesterday.... this morning the tank looks pretty good. I put the powerhead back in the tank that doesn't have the thing broken. It seems to be putting out enough water flow though not to be worried for a little while.

A new powerhead purchase is in the works though. I hope to have a couple controllable tunze's pretty soon. Any recommendations?

I should clarify - what I was talking about was making and conditioning seawater, not so much being excessively worried about getting the temperature exactly at the temp of the reef tank. One rather extreme example would be making up seawater from a dry salt mix and using it 45 minutes later for a water change.

It may not kill anything, but most would tell you it's not a good idea, either.

As for powerheads, you may wish to consider what your ultimate configuration will be. If you're going to use variable speed DC powerheads with a controller (such as an Apex), then Tunze may be more economical. If not, then Vortechs may be more economical.

From a pros/cons standpoint, my view is that the Tunzes have the advantage of directional control, the con of adding all of the wattage going in to them to the tank as heat.

For the vortechs, I see the advantage of a wide range of choices of flowrate profiles, the disadvantage of not being able to mount them anywhere and point them in any direction.

 

[ThorEffex]

Well IMO getting the alk is way more important that a few degrees. When I add water I add it to the the sump where the drains enter its a good mixing spot for me and the heater is close by. Just make sure the power heads are magnetic..... Bad experience with suction cups.

 

[DeepThought]

Deep, for sure there is a lot of good advise on this thread. Some of the husbandry suggestions are pretty much standard. However, there are many ways to run a reef tank. One example is water changes, though most change approximately 10% every few weeks, there are others that change every few months. It sounds like you don't have a lot of time on your hands so if I were you I would keep your system as simple as possible and not get too caught up on adding a bunch of other things.

I agree.

Thank you for confirming that they are standard. I guess I will have to do them on a regular basis from now on if I want to meet my goals. I have pretty much always kept mixed reefs with a mis-match of pretty much everything except the higher end SPS corals and acropora. I say that because I don't do water changes but once or twice a year on most of my other tanks that I have had in the past. I'm going to try the 10g weekly water changes and see if that improves anything.

DKeller - Thanks for the additional information. Too long to multiquote, but in response: I think I like tunze better than vortech. The main reason is the directionality. Vortechs, however, do have some cool features and also come with their own controllers... so it is definitely a trade off. If I go the tunze route, I might try to cheap out and get a Jebao WP40 instead and try it out for a bit. I'm already down one powerhead, so I need to have something in the works pretty soon.

Well IMO getting the alk is way more important that a few degrees. When I add water I add it to the the sump where the drains enter its a good mixing spot for me and the heater is close by. Just make sure the power heads are magnetic..... Bad experience with suction cups.

Yeah, I know a little about chemistry. The thing that I never had time for was a lot of testing and adjusting. That's why I bought the calcium reactor: in hopes that a lot of that would be eliminated. But, come to find out I was having a few problems with the unit and I need to buy a separate feed pump for it to work properly. I'll be adding a kalkwasser stirrer to my ATO pretty soon, I hope.

I'm going to start biweekly testing ... wednesday nights and saturday nights. And tonight is wednesday! So... I'm going to be testing. yay!

 

[DeepThought]

This is the tank before I started working on it. As you can see the fuge part is really dirty and the whole thing is unorganized.

I also have a lot of unnecessary stuff underneath the tank that I was able to remove and put elsewhere.