Update on big tank setup & plumbing questions

[Haffs09]

Lots of good advice already here.

I drilled my hardwoods to accept 4"x14" registers in the event I have to move. I thought about going through the wall and footer, but due to the location of the tank, access in the basement to make the holes would have been extremely challenging. I am very happy with the way it turned out.

I'm running a hammerhead to supply my display tank, a 75gal and a LifeReef VS3-36. I used to have four supply nozzles in the DT, but since I added two MP60s, I cut back to two supply nozzles. Although I don't have any corals in the tank yet, I'm very happy with the flow.

I also run a full syphon overflow. My overflow is external, and I have a 2" drain as the primary and a 1.5" drain as a secondary. I also have a spare 1.5" drain that I want to plumb and between the two 1.5" drains, I should be able to handle all of the return from the DT. I may be able to do that right now with only one, but I need to modify the existing riser pipe before I have the courage to test it. I didn't like the insert that came with the overflow, so I use egg crate to keep fish and other critters out of the overflow. With the way it's designed, snails can't get into the overflow.

I supported all my plumbing for the long haul...you can probably climb on it and it will support your weight. I used a combination of all thread, pipe clamps, ceiling mounts and joist hangers to support everything. It's easier to see the pics - (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1831347&page=3).

While the hammerhead is a great pump, make sure you have an extra seal kit handy. I think Walter found the proper seal kit that can be purchased through Grainger for only $15. I'll try to find a link to that thread. Reeflo will charge you $50 for the same thing. Making sure the pump is aligned with the plumbing supported on its inlet and outlet will go a long way to ensure the seal lasts. I must be off a little, because I need to replace my seal for the second time.

Also, depending on how you build your stand/canopy, you can hide your plumbing with cabinets. I did that with my build.

Good luck!

 

[Haffs09]

Here's Walter's thread with seal information:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2128803

I purchased the same seal and need to install it, hopefully sometime soon!

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

If you're using the Herbie design you don't need a separate backup emergency drain line, tweaked "properly" the second drain that's already part of the Herbie design effectively is your backup.

If you do a float switch in the sump to shut the return pump down under low water conditions, make sure it's either managed by a controller with a time delay, or there's a second much higher float switch to latch the circuit. Otherwise, if it triggers, it'll just oscillate the pump on and off every few seconds as the plumbing drains down and raises the water level. This can be destructive to a pump in no time flat, not to mention you aren't really getting the benefit you're looking for (the system effectively keeps running even though you want to shut it down).

1.5" plumbing for the Herbie should be fine for matching to that pump. Assuming you're tapping off it for a few other things here and there you'll probably be around 3,000 - 3,500 gph through the return.

I will second the suggestion of talking to Pascal!

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

PS - this is somewhat personal preference, but in applications where straight rigid pipe will do the job, I don't use flex PVC. If you're making a bunch of weird little twists and turns or have an unusual angle, the flex stuff is great, but if you've got a dead straight run, rigid pipe is faster, less of a pain (you don't have to wrestle the baked-in curve out of it), easier to support (it doesn't sag), and cheaper.

+1 to Cully's 5th point. I didn't even have to do that with my beast! Congrats on making it to the next level of reefkeeping.

 

[SquidwardTentacles]

This is the temp tank sitting in the footprint of the future tank. I think I'm going to right-justify the new tank so that when I drill through the floor for this temp tank, the holes and plumbing will work for the new tank without any adjustment.

"Right-Justify..." That made me laugh aloud. Another computer geek on here. Efficiently got your point across. Nice.

 

[Eastamherstbias]

I would go to your nearest LFS that specializes in Reef and ask if they recommend anyone to build a reef tank with a basement sump. At least get a quote.

Unless you like building things.

It was not that expensive and the fun part was that they did all the work and in the end you are left with a function reef tank done by professionals with years of experience.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

#1 You need a consultation from Blurry/Pascal. His perspective, trouble shooting, trouble avoidance, and automation skills, second to none in Syracuse IMO. He's a busy guy, but flattery MIGHT get you somewhere.

Done. We chatted (thanks, Pascal) on the phone for awhile. His advice is well received.

#2 IMO/IME relying on technology versus good old physics is not something I'd recommend. Float switches fail. Keep the emergency drain in the blueprints. :thumbsup:

In general, I would usually accept this good advice. But... we're talking about relying on good old physics for the main duty, and then technology as a back up. Further, I was thinking of drilling two float switches in separate location into the acrylic overflow box so that if the tank water level rises, there's dual switches to flag that and kill the pump. While I agree I wouldn't rely on tech only, using tech for backup seems like it should be OK. That said, I'm open to the wisdom of others, so I'll think about this again.

#3 I agree with going through the wall then down. But if you've done that before, we'll call that a push and move to #4...

Last time I was able to go through a wall into a closet, and then right angle down into the floor. The wall holes looked ugly. The floor holes were a perfect fit. I'm leaning towards the faux furnace return fix.

#4 not sure about plumbing size, but I'd stick with 1.5". The herbie/beananimal works on full siphon and is very very quiet. Huge fan. Siphon is siphon, so I'd presume a hammerhead could push enough flow to keep the siphon going. The curves are one thing, but hammerheads have some serious juice. I think you'll be surprised.great pump.

1.5" it is then. Pascal recommended the same. I'll T off to 2 3/4" loc-lines into the tank like yours (I don't know if you're using 3/4" but I'm going to copy your return design with the overflow in the middle).

#5 cutting a doorway into your house just to get a tank into your house......+10 RC/URS cool points!

As far as my wife is concerned, we were going to do the bigger door anyway... this project just happens to coincide perfectly with the timing of cutting the hole for that door

 

[jeremyjoslin]

Why not comprimise between the wall/floor and put them through the baseboard/kickboard? Gives you a little re-inforcement, allows a clean/easy hole, and is easily replacable/fixable should you end up not there for the long haul. You would need to strain relief to the rafters below obviously, but it would offer the greatest comprimise.

Not really clean and easy because I'd have to go into the wall and then turn 90 degrees downward, and then drill through the subfloor into the basement. I'd need a pretty good size hole in the wall to get my hands and tools inside the wall to drill down through the subfloor. Yuck. Coming up from below, I'd have to guess exactly. I'd screw that up.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

Lots of good advice already here.

I drilled my hardwoods to accept 4"x14" registers in the event I have to move. I thought about going through the wall and footer, but due to the location of the tank, access in the basement to make the holes would have been extremely challenging. I am very happy with the way it turned out.

Thanks for the positive anecdote. I'm leaning this way, too.

I also run a full syphon overflow. My overflow is external, and I have a 2" drain as the primary and a 1.5" drain as a secondary. I also have a spare 1.5" drain that I want to plumb and between the two 1.5" drains, I should be able to handle all of the return from the DT.

Hmmm. I would think a 1.5" at full siphon and 2" backup would be the way to go... I think the winning plan for me is 1.5" return, 1.5" drain at full siphon, and 1.5" spare drain at trickle, with dual high water sensors connected to Apex.

Seals? I just changed all the seals and bearings with their OEM kit when I bought the tank used. That was fun. :headwallblue:

 

[SkiFletch]

What about using 45's instead of 90's? You might have some more room to finagle it then. The trick would be finding an extension for your hole saw so you could just dril at a 45 angle all the way through the kick boad and the subfloor behind it. I forget that you folks with new constructoin have subfloor through out.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

PS - this is somewhat personal preference, but in applications where straight rigid pipe will do the job, I don't use flex PVC. If you're making a bunch of weird little twists and turns or have an unusual angle, the flex stuff is great, but if you've got a dead straight run, rigid pipe is faster, less of a pain (you don't have to wrestle the baked-in curve out of it), easier to support (it doesn't sag), and cheaper.

+1 to Cully's 5th point. I didn't even have to do that with my beast! Congrats on making it to the next level of reefkeeping.

Right. The rigid PVC is way cheaper to run, but means more connections. I hate connections... I'm running about 20 feet horizontal, and 13 feet vertical. I may run rigid from sump up to ceiling, across ceiling, and through floor. Then, change over to black flex from there. Still deciding.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

What about using 45's instead of 90's? You might have some more room to finagle it then. The trick would be finding an extension for your hole saw so you could just dril at a 45 angle all the way through the kick boad and the subfloor behind it. I forget that you folks with new constructoin have subfloor through out.

A very valid suggestion. The thing is that in my mind, repairing kick board means a expensive length of trim, plus paint, plus someone to install it correctly (it's finish work so I won't pretend I can get it perfect). Whereas repairing the floor equals cutting a rectangle around the holes, buying a $12 register cover, and dropping it in.

 

[SkiFletch]

Whereas repairing the floor equals cutting a rectangle around the holes, buying a $12 register cover, and dropping it in.

Now that's creative

 

[Haffs09]

Thanks for the positive anecdote. I'm leaning this way, too.



Hmmm. I would think a 1.5" at full siphon and 2" backup would be the way to go... I think the winning plan for me is 1.5" return, 1.5" drain at full siphon, and 1.5" spare drain at trickle, with dual high water sensors connected to Apex.

Seals? I just changed all the seals and bearings with their OEM kit when I bought the tank used. That was fun. :headwallblue:

In hindsight, I would have done exactly as you suggested. I have the gate valve throttled back quite a bit. As I wrote my comments earlier, I was thinking if there was an easy way to switch that up. At a first look, it's a bigger project then I want to tackle at this point.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

Changed from side overflow to back overflow and plumbed to basement. Got one AI for now.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

2 more things:

- Tarson Pools sells Flex PVC (Spa-Flex) at $2.40/ft which is $1/ft less than Lowes (FYI).
- What's a good way to dress the outside of this stand to hide the plumbing and wires (wires will be zip tied to stand anyway to child proof). Seems like a nice custom wood skirt would cost too much for a temporary tank.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Curtains? (Don't laugh!)

Or you could do something similar to what I did. I stretched cheap duck cloth over frames made from sawed down 2x lumber to cover the access above my tank. When the lights are off they look like blank painting canvasses which is definitely "unique" and not for everyone, but I think they fit the bill here (less than $20, half an hour of work, non-permanent since you can just hang them on hooks or magnets).