UPDATEs on CMAS FRAG SWAP for May 18th, 2013!!!!
- Thread starter Superman92088
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Tank2379
Active member
My gym membership is a WASTE OF MONEY... LOL... $5 for entry I get 5 free raffle tickets sweet, but I do think there should be a cap on how many raffle tickets a member can spend esepcially if they are loaded and are trying to put money into the Club. Still not fair for everyone that are looking to win a Freebie. Unlce Carl Special should be Exiled IMO!
jasimek
New member
Exactly my point....5 tickets, great....but still there are those that will purchase $500 worth of tickets and win a majority of the items and then turn around and sell them....that's why it's a waste of money due to the low odds of winning anything
Tank2379
Active member
You should voice you're Opinion to the CMAS committee that would make the raffle go smoother when everyone's opinion matters. It's like saying if you didn't vote for a President of the United States then you don't have the right to complain about how they run the country. If you have a voice in it then WASTE OF MONEY would really matter, but if you didn't then you're Exactly My Point doesn't really matter well at least to the committe.
Most of the Folk upset probably didn't have a voice or say or haven't bothered trying to pencil in a meeting to have their input put in when making desicion about the club. This club is run by volunteers and you still have a few that complain and didn't have a voice in anything that has been approved by the committee. Everyone want to make it better but in reality you can't make anything better until you have a plan of action or voice in what the Club is doing. You can't just solve everything over a Public Fourm and rant and rave about how a Club should be run it doesn't work that way.
Sorry for the rant it's just sad to see so many folks unhappy when it's just a Reef Club trying to make Reefers Happy.
BigKev23
Member
Actually Frankie, I think things can be solved on a public forum. The CMAS board keeps trying to direct everyone to the CMAS forum, but no one wants to talk on there. I think it is fine that everyone discusses these matters on here or CR.
People made their voices heard months ago when all of this was announced and the committee chose to do nothing about it. There was plenty of time to make the necessary changes, but since nothing happened, now people feel like their opinions don't matter. I can tell you that many of the people that I have spoken with don't want to attend meetings where they make these decisions. They are boring and people have better things to do.
Making things worse is the CMAS president responding to everyone's comments with his own snide remarks. That is definitely not the way to keep people engaged. The president should be open to everyone's opinions.
I will leave it at that... I could go on for a while.
People made their voices heard months ago when all of this was announced and the committee chose to do nothing about it. There was plenty of time to make the necessary changes, but since nothing happened, now people feel like their opinions don't matter. I can tell you that many of the people that I have spoken with don't want to attend meetings where they make these decisions. They are boring and people have better things to do.
Making things worse is the CMAS president responding to everyone's comments with his own snide remarks. That is definitely not the way to keep people engaged. The president should be open to everyone's opinions.
I will leave it at that... I could go on for a while.
jasimek
New member
Tank2379
Active member
This is exacly where the problem lies my friend there has to be a 50/50 between members and Committee and right now as I see it, it's more Committee at 90% and members 10% of having any kind of engagment that I've seen in the past 3 or 4 years. I understand voicing that opinion on a Public fourm is fine, but saying something and doing it are too different things. They have meetings for a reason to have people be engaged within the club. Participtation also goes a long way. Heck I'm just a member like you Kev... I understand things get crazy on the Public Forums, but folks just need to participate in the club instead of putting it down. All the negative feed back on a Public forum is not going to solve the matters that are being discussed unless you really engage yourself in the Club.
I know it's probably not for everyone but this Bad Feed back has to give somewhere along the lines until this does folks have to be more engaged in the meetings and club itself to get what you want done. this is jMO
skunkmere
New member
+1. This is truly how i feel. how can anyone tell you that you don't have a right in anything.
Texanjordan
New member
In order to stay professinal, and keep all things on the up and up, everything needs to be transparent. Their needs to be rules in place to protect everyone. Just because you didnt vote for president, not that it matters being a Republican in a Democratic controlled state, doesn't meen that you dont have a right to voice an injustice. I do enjoy going to swaps, and getting some nice corals, on the other hand i'm Active Duty Military, and I cannot afford 500 dollars worth of raffle tickets. When I go and buy 25 dollars of raffle tickets, and place 5 in a bin for a big ticket item, and then some older gentlemen who has a ton of money, comes in and drops 200 tickets in the box, it really makes me question why I even bother going and trying to participate in something that is meant to be fun.
jeppun
New member
I agree.. There's no point in voice ur opinion if it won't be heard... We can express it and say it all we want but if the committee overrides it without even a trial run.. What's the point... I thnk cmas needs something new.. Needs to take some risks.. Or do some trial and error.. If we didn't have swaps and such not to sure where cmas will be....
I don't get why people keep coming onto the CMAS forum to complain about CMAS items. I also don't get why CMAS has not asked for RC to remove its forum since it is pushing people to use the CMAS board. I realize that the RC forum is probably a great resource to recruit people, but I believe that it is getting to the point where it is probably hurting the club based on posts like these.
CMAS appears to have grown its overall membership which increased the money within the club, but it appears to have grown beyond the intent of the club. I support the CMAS board in what they are doing. They are trying to grow the club for the ACTIVE members. The fact that the people on here are complaining about boring meetings shows that they are not looking to be active members. Most of them appear to just have joined the club for free entry into swaps - CMAS will be better off without them.
My opinion is that the reduction in members related to the complaints in this thread will ultimately be better for the club. It goes back to to a team mentality. Right now there are a lot of people in CMAS that would like to see things done differently - they would be better off not being part of CMAS anymore. However, the dead horse keeps getting beat. I hope that once this time frame of members expires that all of these complaints go away so we can go back to a reefing community that shares information and items from our tank.
And just to be clear - I am not a CMAS member. I pay the higher cost at the door and normally buy raffle tickets when I am there as well (easily enough to cover the membership fee). I choose to not be a member of CMAS because I have no desire to attend the meetings or organize the events. I also expect nothing from them. I enjoy the chance to participate in a raffle. I don't have money to win as many prizes as Uncle Karl but I also don't have the space in my house for all of them either - I am okay with that. I have been "that guy" at other swaps though, because many clubs do not have people that put that kind of money into the raffles. I walked away with 10 raffle prizes for about $50 worth of tickets at MOFIB last year - I am sure some people thought I was being ridiculous. Its all about perspective. I easily walked away with $300+ worth of stuff. I don't understand why people think its unfair that someone spends more money to win more stuff. Do I agree that maybe the system should change so that more people can win? Sure - but I don't have a better way to do it, so I keep my mouth shut. I am not willing to help either, so once again I keep my mouth shut. If I show up and don't think I have a good chance to win, I can choose to keep my wallet shut. A small chance is still better than no chance so normally I pick and choose what I try to win. I have never been to a raffle where there were not prizes available and accessible that would allow you a good chance to walk away with equivalent value to what you paid in raffle tickets - people just don't choose to try to win them most of the time. I see the clubs take home raffle prizes from these things that go unclaimed sometimes too. The next time the lottery gets to 500 million, I expect to see people complain that the chances of winning the whole thing and not having to split it have gone done and they think its unfair.... when the stakes go up, so does the competition. Such is life.
This thread has brought me down to its level - I am simply being a whiner like everyone else. I will not be at the swap.... but only because I am throwing a party for my gf.
I encourage everyone who thinks the club is doing the wrong thing to vote with your wallet by not going, but be respectful of what they are trying to do. These people are doing the best they can and are earning every penny they are paid... o wait, they are doing it for free.....
Thank you CMAS for allowing outsiders to take part in your events. Thank you for organizing these things and having thick skin to hear the feedback and work to improve it. I was excited to see the new venue as I was tired of being packed in like a sardine at the old place. I look forward to seeing everyone's photos and loot and hope I can make a swap in the future.
Good luck to all buyers and sellers!
CMAS appears to have grown its overall membership which increased the money within the club, but it appears to have grown beyond the intent of the club. I support the CMAS board in what they are doing. They are trying to grow the club for the ACTIVE members. The fact that the people on here are complaining about boring meetings shows that they are not looking to be active members. Most of them appear to just have joined the club for free entry into swaps - CMAS will be better off without them.
My opinion is that the reduction in members related to the complaints in this thread will ultimately be better for the club. It goes back to to a team mentality. Right now there are a lot of people in CMAS that would like to see things done differently - they would be better off not being part of CMAS anymore. However, the dead horse keeps getting beat. I hope that once this time frame of members expires that all of these complaints go away so we can go back to a reefing community that shares information and items from our tank.
And just to be clear - I am not a CMAS member. I pay the higher cost at the door and normally buy raffle tickets when I am there as well (easily enough to cover the membership fee). I choose to not be a member of CMAS because I have no desire to attend the meetings or organize the events. I also expect nothing from them. I enjoy the chance to participate in a raffle. I don't have money to win as many prizes as Uncle Karl but I also don't have the space in my house for all of them either - I am okay with that. I have been "that guy" at other swaps though, because many clubs do not have people that put that kind of money into the raffles. I walked away with 10 raffle prizes for about $50 worth of tickets at MOFIB last year - I am sure some people thought I was being ridiculous. Its all about perspective. I easily walked away with $300+ worth of stuff. I don't understand why people think its unfair that someone spends more money to win more stuff. Do I agree that maybe the system should change so that more people can win? Sure - but I don't have a better way to do it, so I keep my mouth shut. I am not willing to help either, so once again I keep my mouth shut. If I show up and don't think I have a good chance to win, I can choose to keep my wallet shut. A small chance is still better than no chance so normally I pick and choose what I try to win. I have never been to a raffle where there were not prizes available and accessible that would allow you a good chance to walk away with equivalent value to what you paid in raffle tickets - people just don't choose to try to win them most of the time. I see the clubs take home raffle prizes from these things that go unclaimed sometimes too. The next time the lottery gets to 500 million, I expect to see people complain that the chances of winning the whole thing and not having to split it have gone done and they think its unfair.... when the stakes go up, so does the competition. Such is life.
This thread has brought me down to its level - I am simply being a whiner like everyone else. I will not be at the swap.... but only because I am throwing a party for my gf.
I encourage everyone who thinks the club is doing the wrong thing to vote with your wallet by not going, but be respectful of what they are trying to do. These people are doing the best they can and are earning every penny they are paid... o wait, they are doing it for free.....
Thank you CMAS for allowing outsiders to take part in your events. Thank you for organizing these things and having thick skin to hear the feedback and work to improve it. I was excited to see the new venue as I was tired of being packed in like a sardine at the old place. I look forward to seeing everyone's photos and loot and hope I can make a swap in the future.
Good luck to all buyers and sellers!
Just a thought, but if you want to make money off of us non-members or non-active members, I would create a climate for a fair shake at winning raffle items. If people think its unfair or fixed they won't throw around any loot.
I would also raffle of items throughout the swap. Obviously save the big stuff for last, but at least people would hang out for a little while longer and maybe buy another coral or two and network. Cmas forum name tags might not be a bad idea if people want to put a face with a name.
I'm not sure how the meetings are, but I would couple meetings with seminars/hands on stuff to make them more interesting and less "dry/boring." You can also encourage more involvement for members at meetings by rewards from sponsors. Booze also helps....
Ex: 5-10% coupon for goods at abc reef store. Little stuff like that can go a long way to keep people active and involved at meetings. It would also benefit your sponsors/reef shops for more money in their hands.
Just a few suggestions from a non-member, who leeches information from this site like a lamprey on a whales arse. Looking forward to the swap, hoping to find a nice pair of clowns.
I would also raffle of items throughout the swap. Obviously save the big stuff for last, but at least people would hang out for a little while longer and maybe buy another coral or two and network. Cmas forum name tags might not be a bad idea if people want to put a face with a name.
I'm not sure how the meetings are, but I would couple meetings with seminars/hands on stuff to make them more interesting and less "dry/boring." You can also encourage more involvement for members at meetings by rewards from sponsors. Booze also helps....
Ex: 5-10% coupon for goods at abc reef store. Little stuff like that can go a long way to keep people active and involved at meetings. It would also benefit your sponsors/reef shops for more money in their hands.
Just a few suggestions from a non-member, who leeches information from this site like a lamprey on a whales arse. Looking forward to the swap, hoping to find a nice pair of clowns.
For those that are saying no one brought up constructive criticism for the way raffles were handled its BS. There was a long thread after the last raffle with ways to handle it differently on this site AND the CMAS site. The board may or may not have decided to handle the raffle differently but instead of being transparent, they have come up here and instead just talked about "surprises".
I'm not thrilled about the $5 charge(though yes I can afford it but that's not the point), an easy way to ease that change and address some of the raffle issues would be that those 5 tickets are a special set of tickets and only good for the largest dollar item in the raffle. No other tickets could be purchased for it, so every member would have only 5 tickets in that barrel and you could put your name/address on it so you didn't have to be present. This would address the issue of someone stuffing the box with 300 tickets and the complaint of having to be there 4-5 hours till the end for the raffle. Since only members would be eligible for those tickets, it would prompt non members to join if they wanted a shot at the top raffle prize.
And before anyone starts saying why wasn't this brought up earlier, IT WAS in the last raffle thread, the board just choose not to do anything with those suggestions, or at least not announce it beforehand which would have staved off a lot of this criticism.
I'm not thrilled about the $5 charge(though yes I can afford it but that's not the point), an easy way to ease that change and address some of the raffle issues would be that those 5 tickets are a special set of tickets and only good for the largest dollar item in the raffle. No other tickets could be purchased for it, so every member would have only 5 tickets in that barrel and you could put your name/address on it so you didn't have to be present. This would address the issue of someone stuffing the box with 300 tickets and the complaint of having to be there 4-5 hours till the end for the raffle. Since only members would be eligible for those tickets, it would prompt non members to join if they wanted a shot at the top raffle prize.
And before anyone starts saying why wasn't this brought up earlier, IT WAS in the last raffle thread, the board just choose not to do anything with those suggestions, or at least not announce it beforehand which would have staved off a lot of this criticism.
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I know there were lots of suggestions, but most of the suggestions were coming from people that wanted things done differently, but didn't want to help do them. Its not fair to only tell people to do things differently from the sidelines. Clubs like this are about participation. I think that is what the president has been saying. If you had made suggestions and volunteered some time to be part of the committee, you would know about the raffle and your suggestions would have been taken more seriously.
I am not sure that EVERYONE thinks its an issue that someone stuffs the box with $300. That is also a point that has been made over and over in this thread. The point of the raffle is to make money. Everyone that doesn't want to spend $300 has said how they are not going to participate and that the club is missing out on money. However, many of the complaints are that people involved in the raffle were winning many of the prizes. Once again, that means that an ACTIVE member who has contributed to the swap planning with time and energy is winning. I am guessing those are the people's who's opinions are being taken seriously. That's how it should be - the people doing the work should get the rewards - that is what a reefing community is about.
Does it appear fishy? yeah, kind of. That leads back to the whole question about transparency of the financials. If we know how much the club brings in for the swap, then we can verify that yes those active members paid for their tickets and not snuck them off the roll on the side. I don't believe this has been happening, but I do agree that it could be happening. This is another issue that has been promised to be fixed after the swap. Once again, if that doesn't happen, then the active members can complain.
My point was that the people on RC that do the most complaining do not seem to be doing any work for the club and that doesn't seem right. I have yet to hear one person that is working the swap that thinks the way it is run is wrong. As an outsider, I think the club has taken a lot of feedback into account during the planning of this swap. The #1 complaint I ever hear was how crowded the swap is. Now that they have fixed that, people seem to be focused on the raffle. Maybe they can come up with something one of these days to make everyone happy for that one as well. I agree that it would be nice to have a grand prize where you don't need to be present to win and where I have a better chance at winning, but I also see the number of tickets that end up in the grand prize bucket and don't think its fair to ask CMAS to potentially lose out on that money.
Here is my suggestion in advance - If the raffle does not change, then maybe CMAS can keep track of how many tickets each item gets. This will allow them to associate some numbers with each raffle prize. I believe a lot of people put their names on tickets too, so if they could try to estimate the number of different people that are contributing, maybe they could come up with a raffle system where they simply break even or make a set profit. Example: Work with a sponsor to get an aquarium at cost and sell $5 or $10 tickets and once the cost + a pre-determined profit is covered, then the winner is picked from that small pool. I still think the big, big prizes, need to be uncapped as they bring in a lot of money. By showing the member just how much, maybe people will understand why the suggestions being offered are not a win-win for the club. In all reality, a sponsor could do this at their booth and be very successful as well. Would you spend $5 for a chance to win a vortech if you knew that it would be a 1 in 100 chance? maybe. The only issue with this, is what do you do if you don't sell 100 tickets. Every raffle I have been to like this, was for a charity so if you didn't sell the tickets, it was just a donation. That would not go over well with this crowd, especially if it was a vendor.
I don't think number of suggestions was an issue. All of the suggestions require more planning. They require setting up different style tickets and collectors for different prizes. This is where volunteering comes in. Right now, they throw out X number of collectors for the prizes and wait for people to put tickets in. Any other method requires additional time - Time is a precious commodity for a volunteer club. That is why the leaders of the club continue to encourage you to participate and be part of making those solutions happen. They just don't have enough people. Look at the swap volunteer thread at the top of this forum for a perfect example.
I am not sure that EVERYONE thinks its an issue that someone stuffs the box with $300. That is also a point that has been made over and over in this thread. The point of the raffle is to make money. Everyone that doesn't want to spend $300 has said how they are not going to participate and that the club is missing out on money. However, many of the complaints are that people involved in the raffle were winning many of the prizes. Once again, that means that an ACTIVE member who has contributed to the swap planning with time and energy is winning. I am guessing those are the people's who's opinions are being taken seriously. That's how it should be - the people doing the work should get the rewards - that is what a reefing community is about.
Does it appear fishy? yeah, kind of. That leads back to the whole question about transparency of the financials. If we know how much the club brings in for the swap, then we can verify that yes those active members paid for their tickets and not snuck them off the roll on the side. I don't believe this has been happening, but I do agree that it could be happening. This is another issue that has been promised to be fixed after the swap. Once again, if that doesn't happen, then the active members can complain.
My point was that the people on RC that do the most complaining do not seem to be doing any work for the club and that doesn't seem right. I have yet to hear one person that is working the swap that thinks the way it is run is wrong. As an outsider, I think the club has taken a lot of feedback into account during the planning of this swap. The #1 complaint I ever hear was how crowded the swap is. Now that they have fixed that, people seem to be focused on the raffle. Maybe they can come up with something one of these days to make everyone happy for that one as well. I agree that it would be nice to have a grand prize where you don't need to be present to win and where I have a better chance at winning, but I also see the number of tickets that end up in the grand prize bucket and don't think its fair to ask CMAS to potentially lose out on that money.
Here is my suggestion in advance - If the raffle does not change, then maybe CMAS can keep track of how many tickets each item gets. This will allow them to associate some numbers with each raffle prize. I believe a lot of people put their names on tickets too, so if they could try to estimate the number of different people that are contributing, maybe they could come up with a raffle system where they simply break even or make a set profit. Example: Work with a sponsor to get an aquarium at cost and sell $5 or $10 tickets and once the cost + a pre-determined profit is covered, then the winner is picked from that small pool. I still think the big, big prizes, need to be uncapped as they bring in a lot of money. By showing the member just how much, maybe people will understand why the suggestions being offered are not a win-win for the club. In all reality, a sponsor could do this at their booth and be very successful as well. Would you spend $5 for a chance to win a vortech if you knew that it would be a 1 in 100 chance? maybe. The only issue with this, is what do you do if you don't sell 100 tickets. Every raffle I have been to like this, was for a charity so if you didn't sell the tickets, it was just a donation. That would not go over well with this crowd, especially if it was a vendor.
I don't think number of suggestions was an issue. All of the suggestions require more planning. They require setting up different style tickets and collectors for different prizes. This is where volunteering comes in. Right now, they throw out X number of collectors for the prizes and wait for people to put tickets in. Any other method requires additional time - Time is a precious commodity for a volunteer club. That is why the leaders of the club continue to encourage you to participate and be part of making those solutions happen. They just don't have enough people. Look at the swap volunteer thread at the top of this forum for a perfect example.
jeppun
New member
There goes most of ur members lol
DopeCantWin
Active member
How to run a raffle is such a googleable problem. I'm sure tons of other clubs have had similar problems. You can probably find an application or company that will run it well for you. There is no reason to resolve problems already solved.
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