Upsidedown wrasse

Wrasse has not eaten since the ninteenth but he is still alive. He looks horrible. I wish I knew what to do. I offer food every few hours and he seems interested, but he spits it out. It's like he wants to eat but can't.


Sorry to hear about your McCoskers, Bluecoyote.
And
Thank you for the support Nina.
 
First question I have; is it possible that your fish is blind? It may have had a neurological event (stroke/aneurism) and this is what fish often do when blinded. Do it react when light is flashed on it or you approach without making too much noise?

I've seen a few wrasses show similar behavior (lunare, paddlefin, melanurus) including reluctance to feed. Over a few weeks grow skinny. The first (Lunare) eventually develop external lesions. I had been treating it with medicated metronidazole food in a display and wasn't willing to scour the tank to get this fish out initially. When I saw the lesions I did pull the fish and QT with Prazi and kanamcycin sulfate (good drug for external and gastointestinal gram negative bacteria (most common)) as prophylactic antibiotic but I think that fish was too far gone. In necropsy I found large worms had burrowed through the body cavity. Im wondering if they started in the GI and got through the lumen into other organs. Needless to say, the next few times I saw this I treated prazi and antibiotic strait away and the others were fiune, though it took them a while to act themselves again. I feel a 6 inch wrasse can probably go a few weeks without eating. Also, the halflife of praziquantel in salt water is not explored and probably variable depending on chemistry/organic load but dosing just needs to be in bursts of the minimum threshold concentration...you can dose it and then use carbon a few hours later to remove it. If worms have eggs though and are a direct lifecycle species (babies can reinfect the fish directly) then you need to do multiple doses to break the worm lifecyle. (usually once a week for three weeks is a good default). Kanamycin is a relatively safe drug for fish and is sold by seachem as kanacyn. Metronidazole is only a drug which treats anaerobic bacteria (rare) and some protozoans( mostly used for fresh water gut parasites like hexamita/spironucleosis and cryptobia iubilans...might be ok in saltwater to shot gun it but overdosing causes neurological signs like lethargy/bouyancy issues/and blindness which are all similar to what yer guy might have now. Metro can be purchased from a few places included angelsplus and national pharmaceuticals but most petstores carry api general cure which has metro in at (and prazi) and seachem makes a metronidazole product as well. There is also "metro plus" which is a diluted version of the drug which you can get online or at the occasional LFS. Good luck. Sorry for typos but im in a hurry.
 
Thank you CNgreg! He's not blind, he reacts and looks at things. He looks at me when I come to try and feed him. Brain damage is possible. I'll look into that. Meantime...
This morning wrasse is still alive. I think he ate a few ova. There was a big white poo next to him, so I'm going to examine it. The dissecting scope told me nothing. Could this just be regular poo? I'm taking the slide to the other house where the good scope is. ( we are in the middle of moving) Maybe that scope will tell me something.
 
i'm glad the wrasse is still alive. i'm checking this thread everyday to see how the fish is doing. i hope the fish gets better and back to normal health again. good luck.
 
Thanks for all your support guys. I was gone all day to the other house. Looked in on Wrassie before I came to bed. He was on his side, still alive, colors were much better. I'm not sure if he ate a little ova or not. I think maybe a little.
I could tell nothing conclusive from viewing the white feces under the scope.
But given what CNgreg said, I'm going back to Prazipro treatment, maybe with kanamcycin as well. I will also double check his vision. I've delt with a blind fish only once. I hope I won't be dealing with another. It s too sad.
Speaking of sad, I'm sorry your wrasse didn't make it Bluecoyote. did both males die of the same thing? Do you think they catch it from the female? I hope the third time is the charm.
CNgreg thank you so much for all the info. Do you know of any websites or books that show microscopic photos of reef fish diseases? That would be great. I had thought about swabbing the wrasse for bacteria once he's dead, to see if there was a harmful strain that is causing his condition. But I have no idea what is considered normal flora for a reef fish, and I can't afford to streak two dozen plates trying to isolate bacterial colonies. If there isn't a book or a website, there should be. As for brain damage, the wrasse has had a few run ins with the lid and the glass. But would this cause the white feces?
Hello pyithar. Nice to meet you and thank you so much for your kind words and support. I never made it to Myanmar in my travels, but I've seen pictures and it's very beautiful.
 
in the grand scheme of things, given how delicate reef fish are, it's amazing he can show these sorts of symptoms and still be alive. he's a fighter!

i'm another one who checks here for updates every day. sure hope he recovers soon!
 
Thanks Nina. Yes, he is proving to be quite a fighter. Last night he was almost white and upside down. This morning colors look good, fins more erect and he ate a bit of ova. He's had two feedings so far today. I'm trying to test his vision just to be 100% certain that poor vision or blindness is not part of the problem. I had not read that Metro can cause blindness. I'm pretty sure his vision is ok, but it's hard to tell for sure when he's so out of it. I miss my sassy, bratty wrasse.
The fecal microscopic exam did prove that he is getting some nutrition. But as far as finding out if there are parasites and which ones they are, that was a bust. I'll have to report out " parasites suspected but not confirmed". I saw things that looked worm like, but without seeing a buccal I can't confirm anything.
I was reading another post from someone struggling with parasites and Prazipro wasn't working. What finally worked for him was fenbendazole. Should I give that a try?
 
The vast majority here would have given up. Major kudos to you, Morgan, for not doing so.

:love2:
 
Yeah definitely major kudos for working so hard. Like Nina I check this thread several times a day keeping an eye out for updates.

I don't know why the first wrasse died, I suspect a reaction to cupramine. I assume the second wrasse died of whatever the female has (I still don't know what it is), but why it doesn't affect the female as badly is beyond me.

I agree with you that these little wrasses have big personalities that are hard not to love.
 
are you adding any supplements to his food? if not, i'd give selcon and vita-chem a try. it certainly can't hurt and it might give him an extra boost.
 
Hi guys, latest wrasse update:
This morning I found him right side up and very alert. He ate a hearty breakfast. Well, hearty for an invalid: two helpings of ova. Most encouraging news is that whenever he slipped over sideways, he flapped his fins to right himself.
Doing a water change today, and he'll get offered food every couple hours, including some with Selcon. Thanks Nina! Let's see if we can build this wrasse' strength back up.

The rest of the tank inhabitants, back in DT, seem ok. Maybe I will dodge a bullet on them having caught whatever the wrasse has. And I've been mulling over how a parasite got into the tank. The last thing added were the Bergia nudis, but after matching pH and salinity, I pipette them out individually. A more likely source was the food. I get fresh fish from the grocery dept. a months worth of fresh baby scallop is fourteen cents. A raw shrimp is twenty one cents. Fresh wild caught salmon was three dollars last time I bought some. I buy it fresh, then freeze it, and mince off whatever is needed at feeding time.
But!
Whenever I buy it fresh, that day I feed it fresh. I assumed I'd see a parasite as I minced the fresh fish. It may be that I missed a parasite or some eggs. Maybe that's how the wrasse got sick. No more fresh fish for these guys, just to be on the safe side.
Good luck with your female wrasse, Bluecoyote. Hope you can clear out whatever she is carrying.
 
wow!!! this is just awesome news! GO WRASSE!!

also, while i don't routinely use it, i understand that garlic can jump start an fish's appetite.

your theory about the fresh fish/parasites is very interesting. i know with my dogs (raw fed), i stay away from fresh salmon. there's one that's safe to feed and one that likely carries parasites that can infect dogs and since i can never remember which is which, if they want salmon they get the canned stuff.

hope your little guy continues to stay upright!
 
What meds are you currently treating him with? I saw that he was in metro but you were going to switch him to Prazi and maybe kanamycin.
 
Wrasse update: last night he slept upright all night! Today he ate a hearty breakfast. He still has blotchy coloring but he's very alert and responsive even to the point of a bit of feistiness. I can tell if I poked him, he would dart away. I wouldn't call it a miracle but darned close. I will call it a miracle if he starts swimming and really beats this thing.

Newsmyrna80, he's in Prazipro. Went back to using it after the exam of his feces. There was evidence of parasites. So I did a water change and went back to Prazipro. I used it alone as directed. I'm on the look out for a fresher stool sample so I can ID these suckers!

Thank you all for your good wishes! Happy Holidays!
 
:bounce3::bounce2::bounce3::bounce2:

SO happy he's doing so much better!!!!!
 
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