Urgent - Disease Outbreak in my large reef

ReefTank1

New member
I have a 220 gallon reef system that has been running 9 months now. I have had a magnificent foxface rabbitfish for 3 years who was one of the first inhabitants. It was the picture of health and ate everything very well. It has never shown any signs of sickness at all.

126722rabbitfish.JPG


About 3 weeks ago I added a 8 dispar/ignitus anthias to the sump, as well as a 5" 'personifer' angelfish. I also put a large scribbled angelfish in the 90 gallon refugium to acclimate for my other large predator tank (its sump is too small).
Every one of the fish ate eventually, and I fed 3-4 times a day. All of their foods were soaked in selcon and 'garlic guard'. So I moved the anthias and angelfish to the reef tank where they immediately settled in, ate and got along with the other fish in the tank.
However, the scribbled angelfish still had not gained any significant weight. I was feeding it PE mysis and seaweed but it would eat very little in one sitting. Last week it stopped eating and developed white spots, and soon died. Just before this, the rabbitfish started to develop these black spots very rapidly:

12672220081211CRW_1145.jpg


The dead angel was removed, and the rabbitfish's spots faded away a little bit. The other fish were not showing any signs of this.

A couple of days ago the rabbitfish started to look really bad. It has white film peeling off of it, cloudy eyes, and many spots. Some of the anthias have gone missing, and the angelfish looks a little off colour. The purple and yellow tang have cloudy eyes now but do not have the peeling white stuff.

12672220081211CRW_1243.jpg


12672220081211CRW_1255.jpg


12672220081211CRW_1244.jpg


My father has been the one at home and he went to the store and bought "Aquarium Munster Proto marin coral", which is a mild skin disease treatment which is reef safe. That is being dosed, but I doubt that it is doing anything.

I have never dealt with fish disease, and have no idea what this is. I am very distraught by this. I take care to keep the fish happy all of the time and carefully selected specimens for this tank, although I do not quarantine or have a hospital tank (if one is necessary now, I will set it up). If anyone can please tell me what to do at this point that would be great because I really do not want to lose my fish. It is painful to see them like this.
 
I am starting to see damselfishes dying, and the rabbitfish is very disoriented.

I forgot to say my tank parameters - SPS are growing and waste levels are very low (which is why I felt confident adding so many fish at once).

Temperature has been low lately - about 73-75 degrees because it is very cold here. I don't know if this affects dissolved oxygen or contributed to the problem.

Fish in tank:

the rabbitfish
1 angelfish
yellow & purple tang
anthias
damselfish
3 flasher wrasses
2 black clownfish


thanks
 
Treating Ick

Treating Ick

This is the best advice I have ever found on Ick:

Ich is a ciliated protozoan called Cryptocaryon irritans. Common names for this parasite in the hobby are: Ick, Ich, white spot disease.

There are only 2 viable choices for treatment for ich. Copper and hyposalinity. Hyposalinity is safe and beneficial in more respects than just getting rid of the parasite, so there really is no reason not to use this as a treatment choice for this parasite. So-called Reef Safe medications are risky business. They are never very effective and could effect your reef ecosystem and inverts.

The “Bug”. What is it? How does it Work?
Ich has a multiple stage life cycle of approx. 2 wks at tropical aquarium temperatures [77-80 degrees] during which time the parasite undergoes 4 phases:

1. The trophont stage is seen as the mature parasite attached to the fish, feeding off fish tissue. This has the appearance of salt-like grains often described by hobbyists as white spots or white dots, thus the common name of the disease, “White-Spot Disease”. What the hobbyist is actually seeing with these white dots is a protective covering, or cyst, which the parasite creates over itself as a means of protection. Parasite defense mechanism! As the parasite feeds it will grow in size. It is this growth or varying sizes of the trophont that may confuse the hobbyist to think that the infected fish is suffering from some other malady [such as lymphocysts]. The visible distinction between Ich, and some other problem is usually numbers. Left untreated, ich will multiply on the fish and usually cover the bodyâ€"fins and body alike. [cycle timeframe: aprrox. 7 day stage]

2. The tomont stage occurs when the trophont matures after having fed on your fish for around a week. At this point, the parasite, engorged and well-fed on your fish, detaches its protective cystic covering, leaves the host fish and swims in the water column for several hours until it can find a place in the aquarium to settle. It will then attach itself to a surface in the aquarium: Sand, live rock and, perhaps even the surface of rocks where coral is attahced, or even the aquarium glass, filters, whatever. Once settled the cells within the cyst begin dividing to form more parasites [up to several hundred]. [cycle timeframe: several hours]

3. The tomite stage, are the products of the parasite reproducing. They become free-swimming in the aquarium as theronts. [cycle timeframe, approx 4 days at 77-80 degrees water temp].

4. The theront stage of ich are free-swimming protozoans that must locate a host fish within several hours, or die trying. This is the stage when fish become vulnerable to infection. The infection is transmitted through the water column.

When can I kill ich?

Some ich can be killed while still on the fish with freshwater dips. The operative word here being only “some”. Freshwater dips will not cure ich . At best, it can be employed when a fish is so infected with parasitic cysts that serious consequence, such as eminent death, will likely occur if something is not done immediately.

Effective treatment, however, can not occur until the parasite has left the fish. Using hyposalinity as a treatment, the parasite is killed when the protozoa is in the tank, on a hard surface, during what would be the reproduction stage. The hypo-saline conditions kill the parasite at the tomont stage of the life cycle. In a copper treatment, the medication targets the infectious, free-swimming theront.

Why Should I Care About When the ICH can be killed, as long as it is Killed?
Because there is a common misconception that the protozoa can be killed as soon as treatment begins, and this is not the case. The hobbyist needs to understand the stages of this particular “bug” in order to eradicate it.

Also, always keep in mind that ich is an organism, its lifecycle is not going to be like clockwork in the sense that all parasites in your tank are going to be at the exact same stage simultaneously.

Most Effective Treatment
HYPOSALINITY is Osmotic Shock Therapy [OST]. O.S.T. places the infectors [ich] in an environment in which they cannot hope to survive while the host, (or infected fish) can. This remedy WILL NOT work in reef systems or invert tanks as it incorporates lowering the specific gravity of the entire aquarium to 1.009 SG or to 14-16ppt [parts per trillion] salinity---this SG/salinity being too low for inverts, LR or LS. Marine invertebrates have the same osmotic concentration as the surrounding water and if placed in hyposaline conditions they will likely die of osmotic shock. Likewise, this procedure should not be used on sharks/rays, only boney fish. The procedure, can, however, work very well in strictly fish-only set ups.

The method of lowering salinity/SG is simple: Over the course of 48-hrs, salt water in the tank is replaced with fresh RO or DI water in several, but small increments until a SG of 1.009/salinity 14-16 ppt is achieved. Maintain pH, as pH tends to lower in hypo-saline water; you need to maintain a pH which is safe for marine fish and consistent with the levels in the display/hospital tank. The best instruments to use for measuring specific gravity are refractometers or high-quality, lab-grade glass hydrometers. The reason these instruments are recommended is because of their precision and the need to be very precise in attaining therapeutic SG/salinity for the procedure. Never use plastic sing arm type hydrometers. They are basically useless for this procedure, and, really, they are so inaccurate that they should not even be used for routine salt water assessment either. As to the beneficial microbes you rely upon to provide natural filtration in your aquaria/QT, NOT TO WORRY! The bacteria colony will survive, the fish will be more than fine; Ich, however, will not survive. By lowering the salinity, you will also be lowering the osmotic pressure of the water. The parasites NEED high osmotic pressure to convert saline water into freshwater. All marine animals need freshwater as we do [these parasites are considered marine animals as well, BTW]. They just convert it differently, usually via their tissues. Reduce this necessary pressure and the ich will die. As a higher life form, the fish will do fine with this short-term treatment. Preference for this treatment of ich over copper is based on toxicity. Hyposalinity has no ill effects on fish during or after treatment, whereas copper is a toxin, and could have enduring negative effects on fish even following a successful treatment.

Maintain the 1.009 SG/16-14 ppt salinity in the tank for 3-4 wks AFTER no visible signs of ich are present with your fish. After that time, you can slowly, over the course of several [5-7] days, raise the salinity back to normal levell. Take longer raising the salinity then you did lowering it. If the fish are in a separate treatment tank, leave them there for 5-7 days after returning the salinity to normal levels. If the fish are well after this time, then move them back to the display.

Copper Treatment is highly effective when applied precisely and monitored closely. The drawbacks to copper, however, unlike hyposalinity, is that copper is a toxin---to both parasite, as well as your fish.

In this treatment, the hobbyist will use use [best choice] Cupramine which is manufactured by Seachem. You will also need a compatible copper test kit that will “work with” the copper. If you use Cupramine, then also select Seachem’s copper test kit.

You should always set up a hospital tank, never adding copper directly to your display. At all times, maintain therapeutic copper levels in the hospital, using the copper test kit daily. READ THE LABEL of your medication and follow the directions. Like hyposalinity, copper treatment requires precision. Not enough copper, and the treatment is ineffective. Too much copper, and the treatment could be lethal to your fish. Take care, be attentive.

The treatment course for copper is 3 weeks after you have attained therapeutic levels. Following treatment, you should leave your fish in the hospital tank for an additional week for observation.

What else should I do during treatment?

Continue common sense maintenance practices. That means water changes, water quality tests, etc. In this case, while treating, you will want to perform water changes that match the water in your QT. If your tank is under hyposalinity, then the water you change out, must also be at the same salinity/pH as the water you remove from the tank. Likewise, if you remove copper treated water, then the water you put back into the tank needs to be copper treated as well, at the the appropriate therapeutic level.
 
Lateral Line Disease

Lateral Line Disease

The picture of the fish indicates you may have lateral line disease at work too. Here is the best info I have come across on Lateral Line Disease:

Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HLLE is not a contagious fish disease but, rather, a condition where the epidermis and scales along the lateral line and face of the effected fish become pitted and eroded. HLLE is thought to result in captive fish subjected to poor environment, poor nutrition, poor care and sometimes even another disease process. There is not always an obvious “cause” because many hobbyists may have what is considered a good setup with even so-called “pristine” water quality, but still have developing HLLE on a fish. If the cause of HLLE is not adequately addressed the smaller pits observed at the onset of the condition will enlarge and spread and could end up covering much of the fish’s body.

There are several ways to address HLLE:

Grounding Probe
All marine tanks must have grounding probes installed in each system: the tank, the sump, the refugium, etc. The grounding probe must be installed along with a properly installed Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) where tank electrical equipment is plugged in. There is no “ifs or buts” about this. Grounding probes are necessary to prevent the electrocution of hobbyists.

But what does it do for fish and the prevention of HLLE? Debatable is the answer.

The long-standing hobbyist theory
Grounding probes should be installed in all tanks and supporting systems [sumps, refugium] due to stray voltage in the aquaria caused by electrical equipment used in and near tank water [powerheads, lighting, heaters, filters, etc.]. Stray voltage is a causation of HLLE in sensitive fish such as tangs and angelfish; the irritating nature of this stray voltage results in the erosion of the lateral lines of fish. Properly installed [grounded] grounding probes in conjunction with a GFCI will divert or eliminate stray voltage out of the tank, thereby reducing or eliminating the cause of HLLE.

There is considerable anecdotal evidence to support this hobby theory.

The alternative-perspective
Grounding probes complete the circuit for electricity to flow, therefore causes more of a hazard to marine animals.

Explanation
Tank equipment is connected to a properly grounded GFCI with a grounding probe installed in the tank. A minute amount of voltage occurs due to tank water contact with an electrically defective pump, heater, etc. This small amount of voltage passes through the grounding probe and IS NOT detected by the GFCI because the voltage is very low. Because this voltage goes undetected by the accompanying GFCI, AND the grounding probe provides a grounded source of current, the tank is now charged with minute amounts of electricity that poses a thread to marine life. If a grounding probe was not installed, there would be no “current” by which electricity could travel, therefore, no threat to marine life.

Grounding Probe Essential for Hobbyist Safety
The grounding probe connected to a grounded GFCI will allow current to flow through the water providing the path of least resistant which is through the probe [and not human hands, or arms]. Bottom line, grounding probes are for human safety, not fish safety.

Human safety must always be a priority, therefore grounding probes must be installed in the aquaria.
 
Temperature

Temperature

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13922592#post13922592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefTank1


Temperature has been low lately - about 73-75 degrees because it is very cold here. I don't know if this affects dissolved oxygen or contributed to the problem.


thanks

IMO your tank temperature is too low, especially for stressed tropical fish. I would advise turning up your heater OR adding an additional heater to get the water temperature up to at least 78 degrees.

Also be aware that if the temperature is low, it can affect the reading on the refractometers. So be sure to calibrate the refractometer to the temperature and re-test the salinity levels (especially if you are going to be doing a treatment for ich).

I hope you are succesful in saving your pretty fish.
 
Great info on Ich and HLLE! Always good to get a refresher as well as pick up new info in advance :)
 
wow...your poor fish. :(

You're going to have to get them out of the reef and into QT ASAP, then do your copper or Hypo treatment. If you don't do this, they may all die and it can happen quickly.
 
Thanks for your responses, I have set up a small hospital tank with water from my fish only tank. What size do you think is the minimum for 3-4" tangs and a 5" angel for treatment? Any other general tips about QT tanks? I need to find a sufficient filtration system because all I have in there is an airstone and a pump.

About 10 fish have died already, including the rabbitfish. The angel and tangs are swimming and eating but I am finding it very difficult to catch them so that I can treat them. Do you have any tips for catching them? I want to get them in very soon.

If I get them in the tank should I use Copper or hyposalinity? I am prepared to do whichever one. I have a refractometer and "Mardel CopperSafe" which is chelated copper sulfate.

Please offer any opinions as I want to treat the fish that are still left back to health.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13940797#post13940797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefTank1
What size do you think is the minimum for 3-4" tangs and a 5" angel for treatment?
The angel and tangs are swimming and eating but I am finding it very difficult to catch them so that I can treat them. Do you have any tips for catching them?

If I get them in the tank should I use Copper or hyposalinity? I am prepared to do whichever one. I have a refractometer and "Mardel CopperSafe" which is chelated copper sulfate.


Well, I have been lucky because I have never had to treat a sick fish (yet). Put the tangs and angel in the largest tank you can- at least 40-60 gallons if you have it. (Or several smaller tanks if that is all you have.) Make sure there is no sand or live rock in there. However the fish will feel better with something to hid in so add some PVC piping or something else they can hide behind. Frequent water changes or even an over the edge filter are better than nothing.

Someone more knowledgeable than me can give you advice on which is more effective, copper or hyposalinity.

Since the fish are coming out of such a large tank, maybe you can use eggcrate to narrow down the area they are in so they are easier to capture. And maybe a second person to help wouldn't hurt, even if they just waive around a net to keep the fish in one area.

Sorry to hear you lost so many fish. Good luck with curing the rest. I know it can be done but you have to jump on the issue ASAP.
 
I'm a total newbie, but a vet, and have been looking into Ich recently and I really don't think that your pictures look like fish with Ich. I don't see any small white spots, I see dark spots which makes me think petichiae (internal hemorrhage). But what do I know?!


edited to add: Just saw something about black ich but can't get to it because the search function is down. Sorry!
 
Last edited:
Black ich is caused by the tubellarian, Paravotex, and is usually treated with formalin dips or trichlorofon.
 
Oodinium or velvet is very rare ( 9/10 times it is just ich). When dealing with weak fish, the key thing is to avoid stressing them out. If you must remove the fish, I would recommend hypo rather than copper because it is a lot less stressful on your fish and they will immediately be able to breath a lot easier. I know, someone is going to comment that this doesnt treat velvet - like I said, the chance of it being velvet is 1/10. Furthermore, the chance of fish dying from medicating copper from the stress is much higher than doing hypo. If you have a reef, you will have to leave it empty for 3 months - anything like hypo, copper, and you can kiss the reef goodbye - the hypo will kill the invertebrates - the copper will kill the invertebrates and permanently taint your rock and sand.
 
The remaining fish (angel, 2 tangs, 4 anthias, 2 female wrasses) appear to have made a full recovery. There is no visible disease anymore (but obviously it is still present). Where should I go from here?
 
i dealt with this as well not long ago. to successfully remove ich form a tank it needs to set without a host for 6 weeks minimum. velvet isnt as easy. i would say of possible, remove the fish and leave the dt tank fishless for as long as possible. or get yourself a uv sterilizer for the dt. this will take care of free swimming parasites but not the ich cyst. water changes with frequent vacuuming of substrate will help here. this is the least evasive action that will help imo.
 
Back
Top