Urgent help need to save the rest of my fish. QT Help please

[fairladyZ]

So i posted in the fish disease forum but haven't heard back so figured i would try a higher traffic area. The back story:

I've had my 90 gallon tank setup for 1.5yrs. Nothing has been added to the tank in the past 6 months. I setup a 210 gallon and got it running on 4th of July, After a little over a month i moved my corals out of the 90 and into the 210 along with about half the inverts. I kept all my fish in the 90 as my tang had been showing signs of what i thought was ich. Started with a few spots on him months ago that i thought was sand. Every since i took the corals out he has progressivly gotten worse. So i was trying to decide what route to take to treat the fish, Hypo or TTM. I decided on TTM and got everything ready and setup and decided it's go time. I didn't want to start off with my tang so figured since he was fine and eating that day that i would start with my mandarin, 1 of my dartfish, and lawnmower blenny. In order to get these fish out i had to remove all the rock. I tried to be as gentle as i could without stirring up to much stuff. I got them out and put all the rock back in the tank. The next day i get home from work and my tang is listing to one side and swimming badly. He goes belly up so i try to drop the salinity a little to help and kicked my flow way way up. He comes back around after an hour but he is still obviously not in good shape. All his color from the day before is gone and it almost looks like he has sores on him and his skin around his face is peeling off. He's always had great color and always had a huge appetiate. Over the last month his light specs that i thought were sand had turned into more of stains on his skin. They didn't seem to be protruding from him and he was just absolutely covered in it. But it was hard to see unless the atinics were on. It wasn't white but more of a greyish almost like powder on him. So the next day i say ok if he's alive when i go to work i'll do something proactive. When i wake up he's alive still and upright. I leave work early and get home to see he's not changed by now my 2 clownfish have lost their colors and are swimming at the surface almost vertical. I ask for some advice on here but dont really get any so in a last ditched effort to save them i put in the recommended dosage of copper into the tank. The clowns color seems to come back a little after a couple hours and i go to bed. Wake up this morning and the tang and both clowns are dead. I decide to pull all my rock again to see if i can find my remaining 2 dartfish and radiant wrasse that were in the tank that i hadn't really seen since i pulled the rock the first time. After awhile i find them and throw them into a 20 gallon tank with a tupperware container of new sand that i had and a powerhead/heater. I drained all the water out of the tank and pulled half the sand and all the rock.

So now i have 1 dartfish and blenny in a 10 gallon tank that i'm using for TTM. and i have 2 dartfish and a radiant wrasse in a 20 gallon tank. I'm not sure what to do now. Im stressed and frustrated and bummed the hell out. I'm thinking this may not have been ich but maybe velvet and once i moved the rock the first time and stressed the tank it unleashed hell. BUT i'm not sure. None of the remaining fish show any signs or symptoms.

I'm wondering if i should cut the TTM short on the 2 fish and move them to the 20 gallon and treat with copper? Or should i finish the TTM and then i dunno. My 210 is running good, but i did move a peppermint shrimp and emerald crab and nasariuss snails from my 90 to the 210 about a week ago. So now i'm wondering should i leave it fallow and treat all the fish in the 20 gallon with copper?

And also how do i keep ammonia out of that tank, There is no biological filtration, only a new tiny bed of sand for them to sleep. I have cupramine on hand and can dose it but what about ammonia? Should i pull 1 small rock out of my 210 and put it into the 20 since cupramine is said to no kill nitriying bacteria? That way the tank can atleast be safe for the fish since i can't use prime or anything with copper? I really have no idea where to go from here.

Thanks

 

[Royce7586]

whoooaa looks like you havent been having fun the last few days.

First off make sure none of the rocks or anything from the tank you treated with copper gets into the 210 or you will kill all your corals and inverts in it.

If its ich you need to leave the 210 fallow

I've never used copper for ich I used hyposalinity but do you have any filter pads or carbon in bags or anything like that that were in the 90? If you do they can be used for your filtration if not you can use a rock but it will make it harder to kill off the ich in the QT because they will hide in it.

After you finish the copper treatment you could drop the salinity in the qt a few points maybe to 1.018 or 1.020 the lower the salinity the more oxygen there is for the fish. Raise it back up a week before your fallow period is over for the 210

Even with biological filtration you need to be checking for ammonia daily for the first couple weeks too see what its doing
The hardest things to manage on QTs is the ammonia and ph keep an eye on both of those and you should be fine. Also need to make sure the water is getting oxygenated by some kind of mechanical filter

I'm no expert had my tank up for 2 years but no one else seems to be volunteering advice so good luck!

 

[tkeracer619]

Leave the 210 fallow. That is good thinking. The longer the better.

Put the fish in the 20 and run copper.

You are already doing what you are supposed to and what you could. Sorry that you have lost your fish, it happens to the best of us.

Try to relax and not do anything rash. Watch for ammonia. Things will get better.

 

[fairladyZ]

Thanks guys,

Nothing from the 90 has gone into any of the tanks other than some inverts that i moved over a week ago, the 210 will remain fallow until these fish are treated and healthy. So at this point im unsure of what parasite i have. I don't know if it's ich or velvet or brook. The tang was the only fish that showed any signs but he showed them for months. The clownfish showed signs 2 days before they died. I'm under the impression that if it was velvet it should have taken the tang down ALONG time ago. as nothing had even been added to the DT in about 6 months. Unless he was just healthy enough to keep it at bay and live with it till the end when i stirred everything up.

So i'm torn on if i should cut the TTM short and move all the fish into the 20 gallon and treat with copper? The only thing in the 20 gallon right now is the 3 fish and a tupperware container with about an inch of sand. I have my penguin filter going on it and bought some bio spira and put it into the tank to reseed it. Also have a heater and little powerhead in the water so oxygen should be fine. None of the fish in either the 20 gallon or the 10 gallon TTM are showing any spots or signs of anything. I really would like to treat with the easiest and most humane way. I know copper can be rough on fish and i don't want to hurt them at all. but it just seems like without knowing what parasite this is copper may be the best bet.

 

[fairladyZ]

anyone? ideas?

 

[kelrn98]

As far as ammonia goes in the QT I have a few suggestions based on my personal and recent (actually current) experience.
1. Definitely get ammonia alert badge.
2. Keep 10g of mixed saltwater ready for emergent water change.
3. Do not use any ammonia remover in conjunction with other meds without researching as the combination may be toxic.
4. I have been able to keep ammonia down with use of HOB skimmer and HOB filter with filter pad from DT. Definitely recommend the HOB skimmer. Though skimming can remove some meds it doesn't seem to remove cupramine.
5. Keep an air stone in at all times.
6. Feed lightly.
7. Manually remove uneaten food and fish poop.

 

[kelrn98]

From reading your story it seems like you may have had an ammonia spike in your 90g, from moving rocks around,which led to the demise of you fish.

If your other fish aren't showing any symptoms you may want to give them a day or two of rest and good nutrition be aggressively treating them with any meds or even TTM.

 

[fairladyZ]

I thought maybe it was ammonia to. I checked the water the day before I moved the rocks and everything was great. 0 ammonia. The one thing that makes me think it wasn't ammonia is the fact that the other 3 fish in the tank were perfectly fine. And the day that the clowns amd tang looked really bad. The wrasse was out swimming around and looked fine. But for the last week or more anytime he sees me he hides in the sand. I'm not sure if it's cause whatever parasite is affecting him or because I had been in the tank almost everyday moving stuff or grabbing stuff. Same with the dartfish. They all became reclusive.

I already have an ammonia badge on the qt. I fed a little bit to the qt yesterday and they ate alittle and seemed to want more but didn't push it. The dartfish and blenny in the ttm I put a tiny bit in and the blenny tried but they won't move from the corner to even try. I think tonight I will put those 2 in the qt and try to feed a little again.