URGENT: Possible sick clown...

[traveller7]

Yes to cleaning with tap, you are just trying to rinse any shipping, labeling, curing, residue.

Brook is listed on the same site linked above, but I would suspect amyloo over brook at this stage.

 

[Slakker]

Okay.

I forgot to list what I picked up for the tank.

I got 3 pieces of PVC, all 2" diameter. I've got a T, a 90' and a 45' elbow.

10g tank, 50w pre-set Whisper heater (pre-set to 78, but I don't know if I trust it...I might put it in the display and move that heater into the QT), a 10-20g "Aqua-Tech" power filter with activated carbon and some sort of bio-fiber for the bacteria to take hold in.

I grabbed some ORA-Glo food, as I couldn't find any Cyclopeeze at petco, a digital thermometer, and a seperate siphon for the QT tank (seemed like a good idea), and also an "Aqua-Tech" powerhead for salt mixing.

I think I've got most of my bases covered here...anything I missed?
(I didn't get a cover for the tank...will that be okay?)

 

[redvipe2010]

Definately keep an eye on the temp. with any new heater.

I don't keep a cover on any of my tanks. Its best not to cover them.

Got any pics?

 

[traveller7]

Hmmm, clowns are actually jumpers....I'd find something to cover the tank. Egg crate(light diffusion grating from Home Depot/Lowes) is not a bad longer term solution. Near term, use a lower water level to be safe, until you find a cheap and effective cover.

If you have to medicate, no carbon, but for now I would use it.

 

[Slakker]

Okay, I can head to a couple of hardware stores to pick up some egg crate.

I haven't gotten any clear pics of the clowns as of yet...my camera is really not fast enough, and the little guys move around quite a bit.

I am getting fairly close to transferring the water and clowns to the new tank, and am hoping that i won't stress them out too much with the netting and such.

Thanks again for all of the help...you guys are great.

Edit: Also, I'm planning on placing the heater horizontally underneath the return flow from the filter...good idea, bad idea?

 

[GSMguy]

dont net them use a drinking glas and shoo them into it one at a time

 

[Slakker]

Good idea...less risky...thanks!

 

[redvipe2010]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9682996#post9682996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
Hmmm, clowns are actually jumpers....I'd find something to cover the tank. Egg crate(light diffusion grating from Home Depot/Lowes) is not a bad longer term solution. Near term, use a lower water level to be safe, until you find a cheap and effective cover.

Your right, I assumed he was talking about glass covers when he said he didn't get a cover.

 

[Slakker]

Alright...got everybody transferred over. the clowns are hanging out near the bottom, I think they're freaked out by their reflection or something.

Here's a video so you can see how they're behaving. I've since added a few ORA Glo pellets and a crushed up Reef Herbivore pellet, but they haven't shown much interest in them. They went after it initially when I put it in, but ignored it once it hit the ground.



The spots seem to have become less obvious, but I'm still concerned.

Scott...according to the site you sent me to, if it is in fact Amyloo, I would need to treat with copper, unless there's another way?

After running around searching for the eggcrate and getting a 5g jug of distilled water (couldn't get RO in anything other than 1g, and certainly didn't want to transport 10 of 'em.) they seem to have gotten a lot more comfortable in the QT tank and are now enjoying the PVC.

I'm slowly adding ~1g of distilled water right now to start the process of bringing them down to Hypo.

 

[traveller7]

Congrats on the progress to date, you are ahead of the game and will be prepared for new additions later

First off, it is just the fish in the hospital tank, right?

Copper would be best if it is Amyloo. Don't go there yet. I would suspect the clowns in the pet shop would show signs of it now. Have you been shopping for supplies in the same shop the clowns were sourced from? If so, are the remaining clowns covered in junk, swimming head up or down in the corners?

I also suspect frozen brine should be on the buy list for today or tomorrow. Try to get get an enriched type, I pick up spirulina enriched personally. This should be easily obtainable and even though folks will come out of the woodwork decrying it's non-nutritional benefits, my breeder clowns don't seem to mind it mixed in with a good variety ;>)

Locating a local shop with PE mysis and cyclopeze will be a bit more difficult but the local fish clubs should be helpful.

Getting them eating, and eating well, is the next real task.

Be on the look out for them swimming in place head up or head down.
Be on the look out for a whitish slime.

Continued good luck and patience.

 

[Slakker]

Okay.

It's just the clowns in the hospital, yeah, the snails and peppermint shrimp are in my 3/4 full main tank (mixing up another batch of salt as we speak to finish that off). I'm correct in assuming that inverts are not at all affected by the same parasites and diseases as clowns are?

Also, I haven't seen them swim head down or up in any one place as of yet, but they do list slightly to one side from time to time and will kind of nip at the glass on the bottom. They physically appear to be normal at this point, as far as I can see, but don't seem too excited about eating.

Here's the tank with the eggcrate on (heating up some freshwater to bring salinity down, though I'm nervous about trusting the hydrometer.)



Edit: I just tried to feed them a few ORA-Glo pellets, and they went nuts over it, but the pieces were too big for them, so that's a good sign, right?

 

[traveller7]

It is unlikely the inverts would be suitable hosts for the "bugs".

Feeding small clowns is definitely a challenge, until they start eating, then getting them to stop becomes problematic ;>)

Hydrometer accuracy is an issue, especially with swingarm styles. Again someone in a local reef club should have a refractometer with which you can compare yours.

 

[Slakker]

I posted in the forum that MARS runs over at www.madisonreef.com, but I haven't gotten any responses yet. I guess I'll give them a status update and see if anyone's willing to help out.

 

[Slakker]

I've started moving towards Hypo by adding three cups of freshwater every couple of minutes. I plan to do this until I've got a gallon in. I plan to do this every 12 hours until the tank is full, testing with the hydrometer after I've got every gallon added to see where I'm at. I am afraid to get too close to hypo with the swing-arm hydrometer, and may take a trip yet again this evening to try to find one of those floating hydrometers, as I understand they are more reliable than the swing-arms.

 

[Slakker]

Also a quick question...

If they're having trouble getting food before it hits the bottom, should I turn the filter off for a few minutes to give them a better chance to eat?

 

[redvipe2010]

I had a floating hydrometer once, it was off a lot. Can you check your swing arm with a LFS's refractometer?

That sounds like too much fresh water too fast to me. Not sure on that one though, I've never had to treat ich. But I'm not sure I'd bring the Sg down so fast.

Turning off the filter for a few minutes isn't going to hurt the tank, it may startle the fish. How have the fish been doing? Are they freaked out? Don't be dumping too much food in or you will pollute the tank.

 

[Slakker]

I've just been adding little bits of food here and there, and after 5 or so minutes I siphon out as much of the food as I can get. I put as much water back in as I can without the food ending up back on the bottom of the tank.

I dropped the SG from 1.021 to 1.018 in the course of about an hour...is that too fast? The site article linked to in the thread recommended changing out 20% of the water every 12 hours to bring salinity down, but I thought that was way too drastic of a change and cut it in half. Still too much?

They were a little freaked out at first, which could be why they weren't eating too readily earlier on. They seem to have calmed down quite a bit, but are still not entirely happy.

The male spends a lot of time scooting along on the bottom of the tank, sometimes stopping on the bottom and just breathing for a moment or two. He always seems to be leaning a bit to the left.
The female from time to time will nip towards the bottom of the tank for a few seconds, but otherwise swims fairly normally. I'm not sure if this is the behavior Scott cautioned against relating to Amyloo or not, but she leans to the left from time to time as well.
Both fish open their mouths when they breathe, though I'm not sure if maybe I just never noticed this before and it's completely normal.

On the plus side the male tips to one side and bends a little sometimes when the female rushes him, so they're exhibiting pairing behavior...that's probably not a terrible sign.

 

[Slakker]

Also, great idea, i'll head somewhere tomorrow and check the accuracy of my hydrometer before I add anymore freshwater.

 

[redvipe2010]

I took this from the summary, is this your goal?:

Lower the salinity to 12-14‰ (specific gravity: 1.009 @ 27°C) over a 72 hour period

 

[traveller7]

You can drop the specific gravity a from 1.021 to 1.015 or so in the first 24 hours without issue. Yes I have brought fish down much faster, but I don't think you need to do that at this point.

Definitely want to compare your hydrometer to one that is calibrated to go down further. Plan on at least 4 points a day unless conditions change.

Going back up takes time and is best accomplished by topping off the evaporated water with full strength SW. This takes a few extra days/week/maybe two. But when the little clowns live long past 15 years old, what is an extra week between friends?

Challenges of the hypo environment:

-very little bio filtration going on, ammonia can spike.
-very little pH buffering, pH can plummet quickly.

Measure pH, Ammonia, and Specific Gravity daily, if not more frequently.