Uronema marinum - HELP

M

mark917

New member
ORIGINALLY POSTED IN GENERAL FORUM:

55 gallon newer (3 months) tank with LR
Sal 1.024, Tem 78.5, Nitrates<10, Nitites 0, Amm0

Purchased a few Green Chromis from LFS and one had the telltale red sore just below the dorsal. Not knowing what it was I assumed improper netting/stress, etc. Died in 2 days. Lost my Flame hawk next (Rapid breathing then dead) but did not notice sores, etc. Lost another Chromis and then the last in a matter of days. Treated remaining fish with medicated food only as I thought this was velvet. So far my wrasse, two clowns, and YWG are all ok and its been a couple of weeks since the outbreak. I also have a CUC in there.

What do I do? I heard others having to tear down the entire tank, bleach and start over . It will be tough to catch these others with the live rock in there (60-70 lbs). Can I just wait it out? Does this stuff have a terminal date at all? If I can somehow remove the fish and treat in another tank, can I just bomb the display with meds to kill without impacting bacteria etc?
 
When you say tear down & clean/sanitize, what is the minimum you suggest I can get away with in order to have a high comfort level that this has been eradicated (soak all items in 5% bleach solution and rinse with RO water and Prime, etc)?
 
Uronema is a nightmare. Doesn't die out in the absence of fish. I'd empty and bleach everything. Chromis and anthias seem to be common carriers these days. One more reason to QT.
 
ok so I'm assuming I can just take out the livestock and keep rocks and sand in the tank. Do a bleaching for a couple of days (say 5-10%) in tank and the rinse and Prime and let dry out the rinse again. I shouldn't have to give the rocks an acid bath right?

The funny thing is that while I lost all Chromis and my Flame Hawk, the other fish are not affected. I did feed medicated food (Dr Gs anti parasitic - contains Chloroquine) which I have read works on this. Not sure if they will eventually succumb. Also have been reading about Seachem Metroplex as a treatment for the display. Anyone have experience with this?
 
I would toss the sand,, put the rocks in a brute and soak for several days in bleach. Pressure wash them to knock off the now dead crud..A few soaks in water to get the bleach out... If you are running a hang on overflow or filters remove filter media and run the tank for a day or two with tap water and bleach. Drain it and let it dry, clean all equipment up... Then it will be time to start over...
Qt and treat the remaining fish while the tank cycles,, as far as coral if you have any, I have no idea how to clean them of the Uronema. TTM and QT everything, it will make life easier..
 
Uronema is an opportunistic parasite. It also doesn't primarily feed on fish or their tissue, but rather on bacteria. So for a fish to get infected with Uronema it usually first needs to have a wound that is settled with bacteria. Once Uronema has settled on the infected wound the toxins it releases will accelerate the decay. At this point you see the bloody sores. And once Uronema enters the bloodstream the fish is lost.
Fit and healthy fish may live totally unaffected by Uronema even if it is in the system. But anything that compromises their health, any injury, any kind of stress can change that in an instant. Alone for that reason you want to make sure that Uronema never makes it into your system.

Once you have it in your tank the only way to get rid of it is to sterilise the entire system with everything in it.

Fish that look healthy can be cleaned up with a Formalin bath followed by a transfer to an uninfected tank.
Corals are a trickier thing to save. Uronema will not be found on healthy coral tissue, but it could be on any piece of substrate or dead coral skeleton.
So, to save corals you would need to cut them off the substrate and then give them a bath in an iodine solution before reattaching them to clean rocks.

To avoid new fish bringing in Uronema you should always give them a preventative formalin bath before they go into the quarantine tank. A two months quarantine period should also be observed to prevent bad things to get into your display tank.
At some point in the quarantine period you may also want to incorporate a series of tank transfers (look up TTM) to keep ich out. Though I would do that only after the fish are stabilized. Only exception would be if they came with a decent ich infection.

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ThRoewer said:
Uronema is an opportunistic parasite. It also doesn't primarily feed on fish or their tissue, but rather on bacteria. So for a fish to get infected with Uronema it usually first needs to have a wound that is settled with bacteria. Once Uronema has settled on the infected wound the toxins it releases will accelerate the decay. At this point you see the bloody sores. And once Uronema enters the bloodstream the fish is lost.
Fit and healthy fish may live totally unaffected by Uronema even if it is in the system. But anything that compromises their health, any injury, any kind of stress can change that in an instant. Alone for that reason you want to make sure that Uronema never makes it into your system.

Once you have it in your tank the only way to get rid of it is to sterilise the entire system with everything in it.

Fish that look healthy can be cleaned up with a Formalin bath followed by a transfer to an uninfected tank.
Corals are a trickier thing to save. Uronema will not be found on healthy coral tissue, but it could be on any piece of substrate or dead coral skeleton.
So, to save corals you would need to cut them off the substrate and then give them a bath in an iodine solution before reattaching them to clean rocks.

To avoid new fish bringing in Uronema you should always give them a preventative formalin bath before they go into the quarantine tank. A two months quarantine period should also be observed to prevent bad things to get into your display tank.
At some point in the quarantine period you may also want to incorporate a series of tank transfers (look up TTM) to keep ich out. Though I would do that only after the fish are stabilized. Only exception would be if they came with a decent ich infection.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Knew it was not fun to get rid of, but wow..

Question,, as to the corals, when you get frags on the plugs, do you just do an iodine dip to prevent this, or still remove it from the plug..
 
What I do with new frags depends a bit on the state of the coral and where it came from.
If it's a fresh frag that hasn't encrusted yet I just snap it off and glue it to a new plug or piece of rock.
Otherwise I just dip them.
I never buy corals out of systems where sick fish are in, especially if they show symptoms of Uronema or Amyloodinium.

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ThRoewer said:
Uronema is an opportunistic parasite. It also doesn't primarily feed on fish or their tissue, but rather on bacteria. So for a fish to get infected with Uronema it usually first needs to have a wound that is settled with bacteria. Once Uronema has settled on the infected wound the toxins it releases will accelerate the decay. At this point you see the bloody sores. And once Uronema enters the bloodstream the fish is lost.
Fit and healthy fish may live totally unaffected by Uronema even if it is in the system. But anything that compromises their health, any injury, any kind of stress can change that in an instant. Alone for that reason you want to make sure that Uronema never makes it into your system.

Once you have it in your tank the only way to get rid of it is to sterilise the entire system with everything in it.

Fish that look healthy can be cleaned up with a Formalin bath followed by a transfer to an uninfected tank.
Corals are a trickier thing to save. Uronema will not be found on healthy coral tissue, but it could be on any piece of substrate or dead coral skeleton.
So, to save corals you would need to cut them off the substrate and then give them a bath in an iodine solution before reattaching them to clean rocks.

To avoid new fish bringing in Uronema you should always give them a preventative formalin bath before they go into the quarantine tank. A two months quarantine period should also be observed to prevent bad things to get into your display tank.
At some point in the quarantine period you may also want to incorporate a series of tank transfers (look up TTM) to keep ich out. Though I would do that only after the fish are stabilized. Only exception would be if they came with a decent ich infection.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


As I am apparently having to deal with this as we speak, I am interested in the difference between what you have said here and what Snorvich has posted regarding treatment of this condition with a number different medications.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437
 
There aren't other options besides bleach? Something like heating the tank to 100 degrees or treating with heavy doses of chloroquine phosphate won't take care of it?
 
Elricsfate said:
As I am apparently having to deal with this as we speak, I am interested in the difference between what you have said here and what Snorvich has posted regarding treatment of this condition with a number different medications.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437
Click to expand...

For once Brooklynella, Tricodina (almost identical symptoms) and Uronema have no trophonts, theronts or tomonts but procreate by direct division.

Brooklynella and Tricodina are obligate parasites (need a host to survive) while Uronema is an opportunist that can do just fine in a fishless system.

To my knowledge Uronema isn't really an actual parasite that initially lives directly of the fish's tissue, but rather an organism that follows the bacteria found on wounds of fish to feast on those bacteria. The actual harmful effect comes from the toxins Uronema releases and which cause more tissue damage.
I haven't found anything on it, but I could imagine that Uronema - as an organism that primarily lives of bacteria - can also harm injured corals or inverts.

Brooklynella and Trichodina are best treated with formalin baths followed by a tank transfer.
Early stages of Uronema (or prophylactic treatments) can also treated with formalin, but once the fish have ulcers that isn't really a good option anymore.

CP has been shown to kill Uronema so in a fish only system that may be an option.
If you get Uronema into a reef tank you are royally screwed. Either you have to live with it or bleach the tank and start over from scratch.
 
ThRoewer said:
For once Brooklynella, Tricodina (almost identical symptoms) and Uronema have no trophonts, theronts or tomonts but procreate by direct division.

Brooklynella and Tricodina are obligate parasites (need a host to survive) while Uronema is an opportunist that can do just fine in a fishless system.

To my knowledge Uronema isn't really an actual parasite that initially lives directly of the fish's tissue, but rather an organism that follows the bacteria found on wounds of fish to feast on those bacteria. The actual harmful effect comes from the toxins Uronema releases and which cause more tissue damage.
I haven't found anything on it, but I could imagine that Uronema - as an organism that primarily lives of bacteria - can also harm injured corals or inverts.

Brooklynella and Trichodina are best treated with formalin baths followed by a tank transfer.
Early stages of Uronema (or prophylactic treatments) can also treated with formalin, but once the fish have ulcers that isn't really a good option anymore.

CP has been shown to kill Uronema so in a fish only system that may be an option.
If you get Uronema into a reef tank you are royally screwed. Either you have to live with it or bleach the tank and start over from scratch.
Click to expand...

I just got 5 chromis, 2 of them have died from Uronema. Luckily for me this happened in QT, which I can treat however I want. So you're saying I should just be able to run copper(2 weeks?) and it should rid the remaining 3 fish of it and that time I can transfer them to another tank?
 
To my knowledge copper does nothing against Uronema.
CP stands for​ Chloroquine Phosphate.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
ThRoewer said:
To my knowledge Uronema isn't really an actual parasite that initially lives directly of the fish's tissue, but rather an organism that follows the bacteria found on wounds of fish to feast on those bacteria. The actual harmful effect comes from the toxins Uronema releases and which cause more tissue damage.

Early stages of Uronema (or prophylactic treatments) can also treated with formalin, but once the fish have ulcers that isn't really a good option anymore.
Click to expand...

So thinking on this more, since the 3 chromis left in the QT have zero signs of uronema, are you thinking that it would then just be floating in the water column waiting for them to get sick or show some opening for it? If that's the case, would multiple formalin baths + Tank Transfering in between make them safe?
 
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