Oops. Sorry, I confused your handle with someone else. Never the less, I see in your signature about being the designer for an ATS waterfall. I have never used an ATS and am interested in the concept. Particularly, removable drawers to facilitate harvesting algae.
Using Seaweed to get rid of nuisance algae in your aquarium or pond
- Thread starter SantaMonica
- Start date
Oops. Sorry, I confused your handle with someone else. Never the less, I see in your signature about being the designer for an ATS waterfall. I have never used an ATS and am interested in the concept. Particularly, removable drawers to facilitate harvesting algae.
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Using Seaweed to get rid of nuisance algae in your aquarium or pond, part 5
Let's start building! The device we'll be using to remove nutrients is called an "algae scrubber". It does exactly as was described in the previous 4 articles and it's called a "scrubber" because it grows algae to "scrub" (remove) nutrients from the water. The first algae scrubber we'll build is a waterfall style, in the shape of a pole. This type of algae scrubber was created by SantaMonica in 2016 to make DIY versions very easy to build. (The very first waterfall design by SantaMonica was in 2008). It also has a great feature: It cannot clog like other filters can
Here is the drawing of the pole waterfall style algae scrubber made with a pvc pipe. If you already have the water pump, and you don't mind taking the time to rough up the outside of the pvc pole, and if the pole is big enough to put the pump inside it, then the pole is the only part that you'll need to buy (the bottom will need to be sealed shut). This means that this pole version can be made with just one part.
The pole sits on the bottom of your sump, and water is pumped into the pole (or pulled into the pole if the pump is inside) so that the water overflows out the top of the pole. Or water can be fed into the pole using the overflow tubing from your display. The further down into the pole you put the overflow tubing, the more even and level the water will flow out of the pole to all parts of the pole. And since the pole has a large opening at the top, it can can never clog up with debris or algal growth.
After overflowing the top of the pole, water flows down the outside of the pole and in doing so makes a thin turbulent air/water interface layer which removes the boundary layers around the algae (meaning it lets you get nearer to the oven as explained in previous articles). The light shines on this turbulence, and grows algae which attaches to the rough surfaces. This growth of course is what removes nutrients from the water because nutrients are what algae consume. Then you just clean the algae off of the pole, and maybe feed some to your fish and snails.
Although any pipe can be used for the pole, white pvc solid NON-PERFORATED pipe of the sewer/drain "SDR-35" type is thin, super cheap, lightweight, and works great. 4" (10cm) diameter is probably the smallest you'd want to use because light from the light bulb will miss a lot of the pole if the pole is smaller. And if you can go bigger, then 5" or 6" (12.5 or 15cm) diameter pipe would catch even more of the light from the bulb, but of course would take a larger water pump. This pipe is readily available at any pipe, plumbing, or irrigation supply store, or online. You can ask them to cut it to length for you, but usually you have to buy a long length and cut it yourself. The pole must be NON-PERFORATED (meaning solid, no holes drilled in it). Google this: 4 inch pvc solid pipe sdr35 custom lengths
The pole should definitely be white, because white reflects the most light back to the algae, effectively doubling the amount of light the algae gets and this keeps the "roots" of the algae alive longer. If the roots die and let go, the algae falls off and you lose your filter. Therefore the pole needs to be very, very rough so that the algae can hang on without being washed away by water. There are 3 basic choices of how to do this, and this step is where you will spend most of your DIY time:
1. A hand drill or Dremel moto-tool with a steel cutter attachment can be used to make the outside of the pole extremely rough like a cactus. This only works with pvc pipe; it does NOT work on acrylic pipe because acrylic does not leave the cactus-like protrusions that you need. Give yourself several hours to do the grinding, and do it outside. You will have a pile of plastic dust on the ground and in your hair, when done.
2. A sheet of white plastic canvas (knitting screen) can be REALLY roughed up by hand with a wood saw blade, and then wrapped around the pole. The screen will need to fit tightly so that water does not go under the screen. You can glue a peg at the bottom of the pole or a hook at the top, for the screen to sit on, or the screen can just slide all the way to to the bottom of the pole and sit there.
3. White aquarium gravel, or course sand, can be epoxied to the outside of the pole. A size of 1 to 3 mm gravel works well, and Devcon 2-ton epoxy or similar will be permanent. It may take several applications to cover the entire distance around the pole, but it will be the roughest thing you've ever made. One way to do it is to put the epoxy on the entire pole and let it harden about half way, then roll it through the gravel.
The water pump needs to be able to supply at least 35 gph per inch (60 lph per cm) of circumference distance around the pole. A 4" pole has a circumference of 4 x 3.14 = 12.6" and thus needs at least 35 x 12.6 = 441 gph of flow out of the top of the pole. Simplified:
GPH Flow out of top of pole = 110 x pole diameter in inches
LPH Flow out of top of pole = 188 x pole diameter in cm
But because of the tallness of the pole, the "head" of the pump needs to be taken into account too. To keep it simple, you could start with a pump that is rated for twice what the calculation says; any extra flow just overflows more, which helps.
The height of the pole above the sump waterline needs to be enough to catch most of the light from the light bulbs or LEDs. Also, the lights might shine down into the sump water and cause unwated algae growth there, so making the pole taller with rough surfaces at just the upper part helps keep the lights farther away from the sump water. A general starting point is the height of the pole should be at least 8" (20cm) above the waterline if this entire 8" is roughed up. So if the water in the sump is 8" deep, then the pole would be 16" (40cm) tall. The pump will have an 8" head to pump up to. 12" above the waterline is probably easier to work with however, because there is more pole to point the lights at.
There is no maximum height that the pole could be, however. If you have a large sump and you want the lights way up high, you could make the pole 36" (90cm) above the sump waterline and rough up the top 24" (60cm) of the pole. Of course this greatly increases the head that the pump must handle, and you will need to watch for water that might "spray out" sideways from the pole when the waterfall hits a big piece of algae. (One solution to this is to lay a sheet of plastic sandwhich wrap over the pole so the water stays behind it).
The base of the pole needs to keep the pole from falling over, and also keep water inside the pole. Two easy ways to do this are either with a sheet of flat plastic glued to the bottom of the pole or with a string attached to the top of the pole that also attaches somewhere to the top of your sump area. If using a string, then a cap will need to be used to seal the bottom of the pole closed. This cap will need to be completely flat, not domed, so that the pole will sit flat. It's hard to tell from online pictures if a cap has a dome or not, so it might be best to buy it at a store. If you use the SDR-35 sewer/drain pole mentioned above in a 4" size, then one cap which works is a 4" number 406 drain cap made by NDS. When turning the water off, the water will drain backwards out of the pump, but if your pump for some reason does not do this then just drill a small hole at the bottom of the pole; it won't affect the pump flow too much. You could plug the hole if you want during normal use.
A neat space saving version is to use a big enough pole that you can put the water pump inside it, and cap off the bottom of the pole; the pump can pull water into the pole through a hole. The pump will act as a weight to keep the pole in-place, and the top of the pole can be tied with a string. The only space that this version takes up is the diameter of the pole. If you want to go real big, say 8" (20cm) diameter with a flat bottom cap and the pump inside, then you probably won't need a plate on the bottom or a string on the top because it will be stable from the weight of the water alone.
Cleaning is the fun part, because all that algae (and nutrients!) gets removed from your water. When new, all algae scrubbers in both salt and freshwater will grow a slime that will need the rough surface taken to a sink or outside to be scraped and sprayed off. In saltwater, after the growth gets thick, you might be able to just pull algae off without taking the rough surface to the sink, but freshwater will always need the rough surface to be scraped and sprayed in a sink or outside because freshwater always grows thin slime that you cannot pull off. So the way you want to clean it will determine what version you should build.
For cleaning, as shown in the picture with a base plate and a separate pump, and if there is no removable screen on the pole, then the pump will need to be disconnected and the pole and base plate lifted out so it can be cleaned in a sink or outside. If the base plate is removable from the pole, then the plate could stay in the sump but removable plates are harder to build. If the water pump is inside the pole, then the whole thing can be taken to your sink or outside. If a removable screen is slid over the pole, then the screen could just be lifted off by itself.
The lights are basically what fits the pole best. LED or CFL plant-grow lights in the red or pink color are good. A 30 watt light about 6" (15cm) from the pole, on one or several sides, should work well. Algae scrubbers and the lights are normally sized based on how much you feed, but for this pole waterfall version the size of the pole is going to determine a lot because it supports everything. A good starting point is two 30 watt lights, one on each side of the pole. The lights can simply be clipped on to any nearby part of your sump or cabinet.
Cleaning is every 7 to 14 days, or when growth is thick. The scraped off growth can be thrown away or put into your garden or lawn, or if it's thick green seaweed from saltwater then some of it can be fed to your dogs and cats. Some can even be fed back to your fish and snails; that's what a lot of them eat naturally.
So happy DIY'ing... and post pics of your build for others to see!
Let's start building! The device we'll be using to remove nutrients is called an "algae scrubber". It does exactly as was described in the previous 4 articles and it's called a "scrubber" because it grows algae to "scrub" (remove) nutrients from the water. The first algae scrubber we'll build is a waterfall style, in the shape of a pole. This type of algae scrubber was created by SantaMonica in 2016 to make DIY versions very easy to build. (The very first waterfall design by SantaMonica was in 2008). It also has a great feature: It cannot clog like other filters can
Here is the drawing of the pole waterfall style algae scrubber made with a pvc pipe. If you already have the water pump, and you don't mind taking the time to rough up the outside of the pvc pole, and if the pole is big enough to put the pump inside it, then the pole is the only part that you'll need to buy (the bottom will need to be sealed shut). This means that this pole version can be made with just one part.
The pole sits on the bottom of your sump, and water is pumped into the pole (or pulled into the pole if the pump is inside) so that the water overflows out the top of the pole. Or water can be fed into the pole using the overflow tubing from your display. The further down into the pole you put the overflow tubing, the more even and level the water will flow out of the pole to all parts of the pole. And since the pole has a large opening at the top, it can can never clog up with debris or algal growth.
After overflowing the top of the pole, water flows down the outside of the pole and in doing so makes a thin turbulent air/water interface layer which removes the boundary layers around the algae (meaning it lets you get nearer to the oven as explained in previous articles). The light shines on this turbulence, and grows algae which attaches to the rough surfaces. This growth of course is what removes nutrients from the water because nutrients are what algae consume. Then you just clean the algae off of the pole, and maybe feed some to your fish and snails.
Although any pipe can be used for the pole, white pvc solid NON-PERFORATED pipe of the sewer/drain "SDR-35" type is thin, super cheap, lightweight, and works great. 4" (10cm) diameter is probably the smallest you'd want to use because light from the light bulb will miss a lot of the pole if the pole is smaller. And if you can go bigger, then 5" or 6" (12.5 or 15cm) diameter pipe would catch even more of the light from the bulb, but of course would take a larger water pump. This pipe is readily available at any pipe, plumbing, or irrigation supply store, or online. You can ask them to cut it to length for you, but usually you have to buy a long length and cut it yourself. The pole must be NON-PERFORATED (meaning solid, no holes drilled in it). Google this: 4 inch pvc solid pipe sdr35 custom lengths
The pole should definitely be white, because white reflects the most light back to the algae, effectively doubling the amount of light the algae gets and this keeps the "roots" of the algae alive longer. If the roots die and let go, the algae falls off and you lose your filter. Therefore the pole needs to be very, very rough so that the algae can hang on without being washed away by water. There are 3 basic choices of how to do this, and this step is where you will spend most of your DIY time:
1. A hand drill or Dremel moto-tool with a steel cutter attachment can be used to make the outside of the pole extremely rough like a cactus. This only works with pvc pipe; it does NOT work on acrylic pipe because acrylic does not leave the cactus-like protrusions that you need. Give yourself several hours to do the grinding, and do it outside. You will have a pile of plastic dust on the ground and in your hair, when done.
2. A sheet of white plastic canvas (knitting screen) can be REALLY roughed up by hand with a wood saw blade, and then wrapped around the pole. The screen will need to fit tightly so that water does not go under the screen. You can glue a peg at the bottom of the pole or a hook at the top, for the screen to sit on, or the screen can just slide all the way to to the bottom of the pole and sit there.
3. White aquarium gravel, or course sand, can be epoxied to the outside of the pole. A size of 1 to 3 mm gravel works well, and Devcon 2-ton epoxy or similar will be permanent. It may take several applications to cover the entire distance around the pole, but it will be the roughest thing you've ever made. One way to do it is to put the epoxy on the entire pole and let it harden about half way, then roll it through the gravel.
The water pump needs to be able to supply at least 35 gph per inch (60 lph per cm) of circumference distance around the pole. A 4" pole has a circumference of 4 x 3.14 = 12.6" and thus needs at least 35 x 12.6 = 441 gph of flow out of the top of the pole. Simplified:
GPH Flow out of top of pole = 110 x pole diameter in inches
LPH Flow out of top of pole = 188 x pole diameter in cm
But because of the tallness of the pole, the "head" of the pump needs to be taken into account too. To keep it simple, you could start with a pump that is rated for twice what the calculation says; any extra flow just overflows more, which helps.
The height of the pole above the sump waterline needs to be enough to catch most of the light from the light bulbs or LEDs. Also, the lights might shine down into the sump water and cause unwated algae growth there, so making the pole taller with rough surfaces at just the upper part helps keep the lights farther away from the sump water. A general starting point is the height of the pole should be at least 8" (20cm) above the waterline if this entire 8" is roughed up. So if the water in the sump is 8" deep, then the pole would be 16" (40cm) tall. The pump will have an 8" head to pump up to. 12" above the waterline is probably easier to work with however, because there is more pole to point the lights at.
There is no maximum height that the pole could be, however. If you have a large sump and you want the lights way up high, you could make the pole 36" (90cm) above the sump waterline and rough up the top 24" (60cm) of the pole. Of course this greatly increases the head that the pump must handle, and you will need to watch for water that might "spray out" sideways from the pole when the waterfall hits a big piece of algae. (One solution to this is to lay a sheet of plastic sandwhich wrap over the pole so the water stays behind it).
The base of the pole needs to keep the pole from falling over, and also keep water inside the pole. Two easy ways to do this are either with a sheet of flat plastic glued to the bottom of the pole or with a string attached to the top of the pole that also attaches somewhere to the top of your sump area. If using a string, then a cap will need to be used to seal the bottom of the pole closed. This cap will need to be completely flat, not domed, so that the pole will sit flat. It's hard to tell from online pictures if a cap has a dome or not, so it might be best to buy it at a store. If you use the SDR-35 sewer/drain pole mentioned above in a 4" size, then one cap which works is a 4" number 406 drain cap made by NDS. When turning the water off, the water will drain backwards out of the pump, but if your pump for some reason does not do this then just drill a small hole at the bottom of the pole; it won't affect the pump flow too much. You could plug the hole if you want during normal use.
A neat space saving version is to use a big enough pole that you can put the water pump inside it, and cap off the bottom of the pole; the pump can pull water into the pole through a hole. The pump will act as a weight to keep the pole in-place, and the top of the pole can be tied with a string. The only space that this version takes up is the diameter of the pole. If you want to go real big, say 8" (20cm) diameter with a flat bottom cap and the pump inside, then you probably won't need a plate on the bottom or a string on the top because it will be stable from the weight of the water alone.
Cleaning is the fun part, because all that algae (and nutrients!) gets removed from your water. When new, all algae scrubbers in both salt and freshwater will grow a slime that will need the rough surface taken to a sink or outside to be scraped and sprayed off. In saltwater, after the growth gets thick, you might be able to just pull algae off without taking the rough surface to the sink, but freshwater will always need the rough surface to be scraped and sprayed in a sink or outside because freshwater always grows thin slime that you cannot pull off. So the way you want to clean it will determine what version you should build.
For cleaning, as shown in the picture with a base plate and a separate pump, and if there is no removable screen on the pole, then the pump will need to be disconnected and the pole and base plate lifted out so it can be cleaned in a sink or outside. If the base plate is removable from the pole, then the plate could stay in the sump but removable plates are harder to build. If the water pump is inside the pole, then the whole thing can be taken to your sink or outside. If a removable screen is slid over the pole, then the screen could just be lifted off by itself.
The lights are basically what fits the pole best. LED or CFL plant-grow lights in the red or pink color are good. A 30 watt light about 6" (15cm) from the pole, on one or several sides, should work well. Algae scrubbers and the lights are normally sized based on how much you feed, but for this pole waterfall version the size of the pole is going to determine a lot because it supports everything. A good starting point is two 30 watt lights, one on each side of the pole. The lights can simply be clipped on to any nearby part of your sump or cabinet.
Cleaning is every 7 to 14 days, or when growth is thick. The scraped off growth can be thrown away or put into your garden or lawn, or if it's thick green seaweed from saltwater then some of it can be fed to your dogs and cats. Some can even be fed back to your fish and snails; that's what a lot of them eat naturally.
So happy DIY'ing... and post pics of your build for others to see!
Interesting idea.
I've actually had a similar idea for a long time now. Only my idea is the reverse of what you've posted.
Think of an over flow on a tank. My prototype (never got wet) used a 4" pvc pipe. The screen was fitted to the inside diameter. Water was to flow from the outside of the pipe to the inside and cascade down the screen. A piece of acrylic tube that's sealed off on one end went inside the 4" pipe. Inside the acrylic tube is where the light would go. Thus utilizing 360* of the light bulb. Any light spill would just go straight up. Like a flash light.
It never got used. I lost the tank to an ice storm leaving me without power for three days. I just put the project on a shelf after that.
I've actually had a similar idea for a long time now. Only my idea is the reverse of what you've posted.
Think of an over flow on a tank. My prototype (never got wet) used a 4" pvc pipe. The screen was fitted to the inside diameter. Water was to flow from the outside of the pipe to the inside and cascade down the screen. A piece of acrylic tube that's sealed off on one end went inside the 4" pipe. Inside the acrylic tube is where the light would go. Thus utilizing 360* of the light bulb. Any light spill would just go straight up. Like a flash light.
It never got used. I lost the tank to an ice storm leaving me without power for three days. I just put the project on a shelf after that.
In our reef systems, it is impossible not to have algae, even if we don't see it. It is even an integral component of coral itself, zooxanthellea. Without a doubt, bacteria are the cornerstone for a successful reef and for that matter, life on earth. I have heard of using cynobacteria with an ATS. I would think that micro algae slim on an ATS is abundent with bacteria populations. It is difficult to seperate all the processes going on in unison.
Tell us about your bacteria scrubber. I will ask Santa Monica about DOC later.
sde1500
Active member
Because, and call me cynical, I think this isn't much more than a thinly veiled advertisement for their line of ATS. Surprising it is allowable since they aren't a sponsor here.
cabinetman123
Member
I think I'll stick to growing cheato myself. I've built several algae scrubbers and they are all a pain to maintain whereas a small cheato compartment well lit is the best imo
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Whoops forgot part 4, will post it shortly.
Yes on low power systems, with deep shadows, the algae can get by without darkness. But high power it has trouble with.
Yes I think all the growth on these things is edible by humans. And also is certainly great for pets, gardens, skin care, baths, etc.
Yes although some of our helpers are not.
Yes the first one in 2008. It's what most people DIY today, and what all other sellers make and sell.
Would like to see the drawers.
Sorry yours got lost in the crash. However a few folks have indeed built them and they work.
I think you mean "macro" algae
Yes being easy is important. And this one is fairly easy. But it doesn't matter if you can't build it in the first place. And this one was designed to be so easy that anyone could get it going in a few minutes.
FW does kill smaller pods, and probably some of the algae, but since pods eat algae, the overall effect of a quick FW cleaning is usually beneficial. If growing pods is the goal, then FW should be avoided.
No it is actually the opposite. Since nutrients are constant, if they are used up quickly in one location, then they are not available in the rest of the locations. Rate of usage is the important factor, thus the analogy to the oven.
Bacteria do consume nitrate and phosphate, but they are not autotrophs and thus also consume oxygen, and make ammonia and CO2. Algae however consume ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, CO2, and they make oxygen. And they are food too
They are not. But this design is. Many people have trouble building my original waterfall design (linked in sig) because the slot in the pipe. This pole version has no slot to cut or clog up. And it can take up little space in the sump.
We don't make these, they are for easy DIY. If anyone else has an easy DIY maybe they will post it too.
Chaeto does work to an extent, it's just weak. A scrubber will kill chaeto and cause the chaeto to fade away if the scrubber is built and operated correctly. This is because of the higher "heat from the oven"... a thinner air/water turbulence layer gets nutrients to the algae faster. Also the light is stronger in all parts of a scrubber. But if you already have chaeto, then hey!
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
I can directly attest to the fact that this is indeed, wholly incorrect. By accident, I flipped the switch on my timer to "ON" and the lights ran 24/7 at full current, in 5 days I had the same growth I was previously getting in 10-14. Since then (about maybe 8 months ago?) I've been running my lights 24/7 and absolutely no negative side effects that I've been able to detect other than having to clean more often.
But that is my particular setup. Everyone's is different so I can't recommend that everyone run lights 24/7, but I disagree that you "need" a dark period. In fact, RHF is the one that actually refuted that for me...in the Basics thread.
He can't post anything about what he sells here because he is not a sponsor.
http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/user-agreement
However I can post about his products, so here is the answer to your question: http://www.santa-monica.cc/
It doesn't look like he is currently selling these, but this idea could be paired up with the underwater lights he does sell, so that you can have close proximity of lights to the pole scrubber without the potential of shorting out the light fixtures on a power outage & sump level increase.
The issue I see is the lighting, both in how you would do it without flooding the whole sump area with light, and blocking that might be tricky - not impossible though.
The other issue is the one sided thing, IME that reduces effectiveness by better than just 50%, and the substrate bond strength doesn't have much to do with that so using aragonite vs plastic canvas, not a big difference.
Making this idea into a 2-sided cylindrical screen could be possible but makes it much less simple, harder to DIY and get even flow.
Certainly interesting, I'll give it that.
I don't buy that you can rough up PVC pipe with anything and get adequate attachment. I think that's just a guess if you ask me, I doubt that anyone has actually tried that. At a minimum this should be done with the epoxy & roll in sand technique or a rough canvas screen or a mortar screen, something that allows for much stronger attachment.
Last edited by a moderator:
djbon
New member
I built my bacteria twin tower condo as well. It works perfectly, consuming nitrate to an extent that I need to dose sodium nitrate when running fallow (damned ich
). If only somebody can add another tower to consume PO4 as fast as NO4 is being consumed, it would be great. Here are my design http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2587610
Santa Monica or Floyd,
Help me understand what type of algae grows on the screens. I said micro algae and Santa Monica corrected me saying it was macro algae. Because some words are used in differrent context I will list my understanding of the order plants grow in the marine enviroment: sea grasses are true marine plants with roots, seaweeds are macro algae, next is micro algae and then cynobacteria.
It was my understanding that micro algae like turf and green hair algae are used in ATS. Please educate me.
Help me understand what type of algae grows on the screens. I said micro algae and Santa Monica corrected me saying it was macro algae. Because some words are used in differrent context I will list my understanding of the order plants grow in the marine enviroment: sea grasses are true marine plants with roots, seaweeds are macro algae, next is micro algae and then cynobacteria.
It was my understanding that micro algae like turf and green hair algae are used in ATS. Please educate me.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
GHA, turf, etc are macros. Things you would grow in a fuge. Micro algae would be cellular algae, like the kind used in a photo bioreactor. Cyano is not algae, it is bacteria. Essentially. I might have missed some fine point buts that basically it.
Odd statement.
I've never shared my idea with you. Or anyone that I can recall.
If others have built the reverse of your post, please post a pic or two of them. Maybe a link to the builds. I'd really like to check them out.
JonezNReef
Member
Thanks for sharing this idea. I was trying to figure a way to incorporate a ATS in my system but didn't like the traditional waterfall because of its uneven flow and tendency to clog. So I will be giving this a go soon!
Thanks for the FREE DIY instructions and useful info.... Can't wait to try it out!!
Thanks for the FREE DIY instructions and useful info.... Can't wait to try it out!!
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Maybe yours will be the first build
I'll have real pics soon, but the drawing should be good enough to get started.
And next is Part 4...
I'll have real pics soon, but the drawing should be good enough to get started.
And next is Part 4...
