Using Seaweed to get rid of nuisance algae in your aquarium or pond

Using Seaweed to get rid of nuisance algae in your aquarium or pond, part 4

Let's start building our filter with the understanding of what the algae need to pull nutrients out of the water quickly: Light x Attachment x Turbulence. The light is obvious, and the attachment keeps the algae in place so the turbulence can occur without washing away the algae. The turbulence is the part mostly people don't understand, because they see algae in their tank without much turbulence. What they don't see is the rate of nutrient absorption; it would be very slow without turbulence, sort of like you standing in front of the oven and not letting other people get their turn to warm up.

Lighting is the simple one: Photosynthesis likes red and blue color light. It absorbs red and blue, and uses it, but it does not use much green. So green is reflected back to you, and that's why lots of plants and algae look green. And for algae, it turns out that mostly red is needed. Matter of fact you can use only red if you want to. 660 nm (nanometers) in particular, which is called "deep red". 630 nm works too. And you can add a little blue, such as 430 nm if you want, but the red does most of the work. "Plant grow" lights can be bought which already have these colors.

Three main types of attachment material exist: Rocks, strings and screens. Algae have developed a natural enzyme to allow them to bore into solid rock and attach to it, so if you use rock (live rock, or silica rock, for example), then the algae already know what to do. Strings, and screens, which are "new and unfamiliar material" to algae, work by offering the algae places to wrap around and attach back to themself. So while algae may not dissolve holes into nylon string or plastic screen, an algal strand can do a wrap-around and attach back to itself. Once it does this, it's as solid of a grip as with rock.

Turbulence, as in a thin air/water turbulent layer, is the area where all the work goes into when building, and decisions have to be made how and where you are going to be filtering. You want a lot of turbulent "turnover" touching the algae so that new nutrients are brought to the algae each instant, and you want a very thin layer of water separating the algae from the air, so that what's called the "boundary layer" of water surrounding the algae will be very thin, thus allowing CO2 and nutrients to get in and out of the algae easily. It's like giving everyone a turn to stand in front of the oven to get warm.

There are three basic ways to provide this air/water turbulence: Rivers, waterfalls, and upflows. A fast flowing river does provide fast water, but the air/water layer is rather thick because the river can get deep easy. More than about a centimeter deep will almost halt any rapid algae growth. Also, light can only reach the growth from the top, so rivers are essentially only 1-sided, which means that the bottom of the river, under the most growth, gets dark easily and can die; this stops your filtering. Therefore since rivers are less efficient, they need to be bigger to give an acceptable amount of filtering.

Waterfalls solve both of the problems of rivers: The air/water layer stays thin, usually 5 mm, and if the waterfall is flowing down a thin screen with a light on both sides, then the waterfall is 2-sided instead of 1-sided. This light on both sides keeps the "roots" of the algae alive longer, so it holds on longer, thus letting it grow and filter more. Waterfalls must be above the water however, so they take a lot of space. And if the water stops, the growth dries out.

Upflows, using air bubbles under water, improves upon the air/water turbulent interface of waterfalls because when air bubbles rub the algae, essentially the thickness of the water at that spot is zero for a brief instant. Plus there is an in-and-out swishing of the algae as the bubbles go by. This motion provides the thinnest boundary layer around the algae, and thus offers the least resistance to nutrient and CO2 flow into the algae. Also, upflow cannot dry out, because even if all bubbles stop, the algae just stay under water. And of course, being already under water, they essentially take up no extra space.

So next time we will start making some things.
 
Very nice discourse. The fluid mechanics and the chemistry are well laid out.

Back to DOC. While algae absorbs carbon from carbon dioxide, it leaves complex enzymes in the water that are grouped collectively as dissolved organic carbon, DOC. Corals also produce DOC. The DOC from algae fuel autotrophic (oxygen reducing) bacteria and the DOC from coral fuel hetotrophic (oxygen enriching) bacteria. On wild reefs worldwide the shift in bacteria populations are seen well in advance of algae covering the coral. After 40 years in the hobby, I am beginning to realize the importance of bacteria in a healthy reef. With that thought in mind, I think that two things would compliment the use of ATS in our reef tanks.

The most obvious one is the use of activated carbon. While protein skimmers, at best, remove 30% of DOC, activated carbon will remove 70%_80% of DOC.

Probiotic bacteria are the invisible microbial overlords that truely operate our reef tanks and for that matter, life on earth would be impossible without bacteria. Just ask the Martians in "War of the World". Just kidding. Twenty years ago, when I stopped using protein skimmers, it was because I felt that they competed with my use of macro algae in refugiums. My goal was to grow ediable Red Ogo for human consumption. However, as I further study on the complex interactions in our reef tanks, I realize the importance of bacteria. That is another reason for not using a protein skimmer, I do not know which bacteria type are being removed. That gets back to my point of using probiotic bacteria cultures to keep our reef tanks healthy. One method does not preclude the other. ATS should work in conjunction with the use of probiotic bacteria.

Just a thought from an "old school" reefer. The link below gets somewhat detailed into the science of using probiotic bacteria in our reef tanks.

https://www.tlc-products.com/pdf/HOW TLC BACTERIA WORK.pdf
 
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All plants consume O2 you schmuck, please remove this post, you are posting a lot of crap


That's bull that bacteria cannot do complete waste processing! How much are you selling these scrubbers for

One could argue that the guy throwing around insults is, in fact, the one posting a lot of crap.
 
I built my bacteria twin tower condo as well. It works perfectly, consuming nitrate to an extent that I need to dose sodium nitrate when running fallow (damned ich :D). If only somebody can add another tower to consume PO4 as fast as NO4 is being consumed, it would be great.

Here are my design http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2587610

How long have you had this in operation. The fact that you actually see nutrient export via nitrogen bubbles is too cool.
 
I don't buy that you can rough up PVC pipe with anything and get adequate attachment. I think that's just a guess if you ask me, I doubt that anyone has actually tried that. At a minimum this should be done with the epoxy & roll in sand technique or a rough canvas screen or a mortar screen, something that allows for much stronger attachment.

This is an up flow scrubber I made for my quarantine tank, but I can assure you that algae does attach to roughed up pvc. I just bent a piece of rebar in a drill to rough up the pvc. In fact, I had a conventional screen initially but the algae was growing faster on the pvc than the screen.
 

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How long have you had this in operation. The fact that you actually see nutrient export via nitrogen bubbles is too cool.

Sorry, just saw this a moment ago. Have been using this reactor more than six months and still running as intended. As mentioned before, nitrate is undetectable but phosphate is leaching out of my rock. I'm adding a different blend of carbon, which seems to be working as API PO4 test kit now showing zero at effluent output.
 
How long have you had this in operation. The fact that you actually see nutrient export via nitrogen bubbles is too cool.

This is an up flow scrubber I made for my quarantine tank, but I can assure you that algae does attach to roughed up pvc. I just bent a piece of rebar in a drill to rough up the pvc. In fact, I had a conventional screen initially but the algae was growing faster on the pvc than the screen.

I thought of doing this as well but i'm concern about heat generated by the light. Mind to share your experience?
 
I am curious what you think about this research:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23882445

I looked at it, what would you like to know? Maybe your after another's opinion?

I see nothing we don't already know. The more trophic an area becomes, the more algae grows.
I also see that man has interfered with nature to attain data results. A tent reguardless of what it's made of can't be used in my opinion to get test readings. No matter how much you think the tent doesn't interfere with the results. It will. Water and nutrients simply won't flow in the same manner as in the open water. You can't rush what the future brings us. There is a whole lot of things that can happen to change or shift the educated guess inside the tent.
Place a tent on a "really old sand bed" and guess how things will happen in a very short time frame is not cool. Heck, who knows what life will step into play and take on another role as things happen slowly.

Maybe, just maybe.....instead of striving to fill the screen with green. We use an algae scrubber as a metric (an indicator) as to what the real value of the nutrient load of our systems truly is? Just cause algae has the ability to read zero on a hobby grade test kit. Doesn't mean we have to run it on the very edge of its ability.
What if the scrubber was just simply there to capture the ebb and flow of life within our systems? Maybe a tank sitters heavy hand feeding the tank? A power outage that didn't get attended to fast enough?
Just simply give algae a place to grow if it needs to based on elevated nutrient levels within said system.
 
I thought of doing this as well but i'm concern about heat generated by the light. Mind to share your experience?

I had this set up in a 20 gallon tank. I just used an old phone charger (5v 1amp) to power 3 x 3watt led's. I used 2" grey conduit pvc, and put that inside a 3" piece of pvc. That contained the light, bubbles and salt creep. Unintended side effect is it would produce skimmate. I did a redesign to take advantage of that, but I don't currently have any fish in the QT tank due to a heater failure.

It absolutely makes some heat, though I don't know how much. I can tell you for certain that if the heater fails the water temperature will drop from 78 to 76.

If you have more questions, let me know.
 

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I had this set up in a 20 gallon tank. I just used an old phone charger (5v 1amp) to power 3 x 3watt led's. I used 2" grey conduit pvc, and put that inside a 3" piece of pvc. That contained the light, bubbles and salt creep. Unintended side effect is it would produce skimmate. I did a redesign to take advantage of that, but I don't currently have any fish in the QT tank due to a heater failure.

It absolutely makes some heat, though I don't know how much. I can tell you for certain that if the heater fails the water temperature will drop from 78 to 76.

If you have more questions, let me know.

I'm a bit confused. In your other post, you show the led's.
It's an up flow scrubber.....through the center pipe?
So, is it in essence a counter flow scrubber? Producing skim mate?

How cool would it be if a skimmer could be crossed with a scrubber? Hhmmmm?
 
I had this set up in a 20 gallon tank. I just used an old phone charger (5v 1amp) to power 3 x 3watt led's. I used 2" grey conduit pvc, and put that inside a 3" piece of pvc. That contained the light, bubbles and salt creep. Unintended side effect is it would produce skimmate. I did a redesign to take advantage of that, but I don't currently have any fish in the QT tank due to a heater failure.

It absolutely makes some heat, though I don't know how much. I can tell you for certain that if the heater fails the water temperature will drop from 78 to 76.

If you have more questions, let me know.

Thanks for the info. In my case it surely will increase the water temperature. I live at the equator. I do have chiller by the way. I built my low tide algae scrubber but not yet in use as i don't have space for refugium at this moment.
 
Thanks for the info. In my case it surely will increase the water temperature. I live at the equator. I do have chiller by the way. I built my low tide algae scrubber but not yet in use as i don't have space for refugium at this moment.

9 watts will increase your water temps??? How much gallonage is your system?
What about the cascading/cooling evaporate of the water?
If it's an up flow setup, the aeration should cool things so, 9 watts should be manageable. In my mind anyway.

9 watts is 30.69 btu's.
Put that into 10 gallons of tank water and it will take 2.8 hours to raise the temp 1 degree F.
I have been drinking a lot, so my math or my process might be wrong.

Edit:
I see you have 75 gallons listed in your sig. Is that total system volume or the size tank you have?
 
9 watts will increase your water temps??? How much gallonage is your system?
What about the cascading/cooling evaporate of the water?
If it's an up flow setup, the aeration should cool things so, 9 watts should be manageable. In my mind anyway.

9 watts is 30.69 btu's.
Put that into 10 gallons of tank water and it will take 2.8 hours to raise the temp 1 degree F.
I have been drinking a lot, so my math or my process might be wrong.

Edit:
I see you have 75 gallons listed in your sig. Is that total system volume or the size tank you have?


75G is my dt. Total around 80G. 9w might not be enough if i am going to build the same scrubber design. I'll wait until i have space for refugium, at this moment i'm happy with my nitrate destroyer. Zero nitrate but still having PO4 issue.
 
75G is my dt. Total around 80G. 9w might not be enough if i am going to build the same scrubber design. I'll wait until i have space for refugium, at this moment i'm happy with my nitrate destroyer. Zero nitrate but still having PO4 issue.

Remember the balance of nitrate and phosphate.
There are those that dose NO3 in order to decrease PO4. This is in carbon dosed systems, yet the balance still remains.

As to a scrubber, the size of the growing surface (and lighting) is dependent on the load within the system. Santa Monica has changed from system volume in the beginning to the amount of food fed to the system. So if you feed a cube of food every 4 days. Then you feed the same amount as a person feeding 1/4 of a cube each day. So you can use a "drop .2" scrubber (for example) and only have 1 3watt LED lighting up you algae export method.
If algae scrubbing is something you desire, you have to look at the amount of food you feed each day. Feeding habits vary greatly between hobbiest.
 
9 watts will increase your water temps??? How much gallonage is your system?
What about the cascading/cooling evaporate of the water?
If it's an up flow setup, the aeration should cool things so, 9 watts should be manageable. In my mind anyway.

9 watts is 30.69 btu's.
Put that into 10 gallons of tank water and it will take 2.8 hours to raise the temp 1 degree F.
I have been drinking a lot, so my math or my process might be wrong.

Edit:
I see you have 75 gallons listed in your sig. Is that total system volume or the size tank you have?

Remember the balance of nitrate and phosphate.
There are those that dose NO3 in order to decrease PO4. This is in carbon dosed systems, yet the balance still remains.

As to a scrubber, the size of the growing surface (and lighting) is dependent on the load within the system. Santa Monica has changed from system volume in the beginning to the amount of food fed to the system. So if you feed a cube of food every 4 days. Then you feed the same amount as a person feeding 1/4 of a cube each day. So you can use a "drop .2" scrubber (for example) and only have 1 3watt LED lighting up you algae export method.
If algae scrubbing is something you desire, you have to look at the amount of food you feed each day. Feeding habits vary greatly between hobbiest
.

Thanks for the explaination. I'll keep that in mind until my low tide scrubber is online.
 
I'm a bit confused. In your other post, you show the led's.
It's an up flow scrubber.....through the center pipe?
So, is it in essence a counter flow scrubber? Producing skim mate?

How cool would it be if a skimmer could be crossed with a scrubber? Hhmmmm?

The lights are only on the inside tube. I'm sure anyone who's put an air stone into saltwater is familiar with the salt spray/creep it creates. So I put a larger and longer piece of pvc over the first tube to capture that. It just forces the water up the inside tube with the air bubbles, then down the outside and exiting at the bottom. It was blind luck it also worked as a skimmer.

I don't have any pictures of the actual skim, and this tank empty until I get more fish or mine get sick. You can see the skimmate that's still stuck to the sides of the pvc though.
 

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This is an up flow scrubber I made for my quarantine tank, but I can assure you that algae does attach to roughed up pvc. I just bent a piece of rebar in a drill to rough up the pvc. In fact, I had a conventional screen initially but the algae was growing faster on the pvc than the screen.

I guess I should have clarified my wording - there's no doubt that algae will grow on just about anything you put under the right conditions. I guess what I meant more specifically is that I don't buy that roughing up a PVC pipe is an adequate substrate for an algae scrubber.

Or perhaps, I just don't envision the exact roughness of the initial example/description given by SM. I have a feeling that most people would just take a few minutes to create a roughed up surface and think that is good enough.

Your pictures sort of illustrate that in a way - you get algae growing, yes, but that base upon which the algae grows need to have enough "grabbiness" (can't think of a better word...) to be able to support a thick mat of GHA - thick enough to perform the needed filtration in order to make it effective. It will grow a coating of algae, but any significant growth with weight will easily detach, so it never really can effectively filter.

I've seen this a lot with people who make roughed up canvas screens - they don't spend nearly enough time roughing up the screen. The result is not enough "grabbiness". Maybe there is a way to do it and make it somewhat effective but I think the result will still be a one-sided cylinder and anything one sided loses effectiveness and it's harder for the water to breach the boundary layer as the mat grows thicker.

I have a friend who tried a waterfall by roughing up a sheet of plastic material in a similar fashion to how you would rough up a pipe and while it also grew algae, there was a lot of detachment no matter how rough it was.

The thing about roughing up a solid surface is that over time, the rough prickly parts tear off, leaving the non-rough surface behind. One could argue that all you have to do is rough it up a bit more, and while that's true, is also means that you rip away whatever mature areas you have and essentially your screen starts over.

If you rough up a canvas screen by first scuffing with a wire brush, then roughing up with a saw blade, what you get is a ton of surface area initially (the cactus-like surface) and that creates the initial foothold for the algae. Over time, those cactus-like protrusion disappear and you are left with algae that has populated inside the holes of the screen where your scraper doesn't reach, and if you did the scuffing step, that algae has a pretty strong foothold. So you never need to rough up again.

What's missing on the PVC pipe design is pockets for the algae to grow back from, but this again is assuming that you are scraping the tube to harvest the algae. The opaque tube causes there to be weak attachment. I'm not sure that this is a huge issue, I'm just thinking out loud - harvesting off a tube might be as simple as grabbing a clump of algae and pulling it off (which would be easy, because of weak attachment).
 
I see your point now. Unless you are trying to keep all the algae attached so it doesn't go into a pump or something, I don't see algae attachment as a very important design feature. If algae breaks off new algae will replace it. I might be missing something, but as long as algae is growing, it will do the same job 1/4" long or 4" long.

My main setup, not the one pictured in my QT tank, has filter floss immediately after the scrubber to catch anything that breaks off the screen. My growth is very short, I'm not even sure I would call it hair algae, but it's cleaning my tanks water. I would guess that you could probably maintain a smaller scrubber if the attach point is stronger, but I'm not sure how that's better than just having a larger screen with shorter algae?
 
I see your point now. Unless you are trying to keep all the algae attached so it doesn't go into a pump or something, I don't see algae attachment as a very important design feature. If algae breaks off new algae will replace it. I might be missing something, but as long as algae is growing, it will do the same job 1/4" long or 4" long.

My main setup, not the one pictured in my QT tank, has filter floss immediately after the scrubber to catch anything that breaks off the screen. My growth is very short, I'm not even sure I would call it hair algae, but it's cleaning my tanks water. I would guess that you could probably maintain a smaller scrubber if the attach point is stronger, but I'm not sure how that's better than just having a larger screen with shorter algae?

Quite the opposite in fact - algal attachment strength is critical to the effectiveness of a scrubber. If it wasn't, then roughing up the screen would be much less important, but it is.

Any algae that detaches is no longer exported from the water column. The whole point of an algae scrubber is to grow the algae in a controlled environment and then harvest it (remove it from the scrubber) thus exporting it from the system. If your algae constantly detached throughout the growth cycle, that algae would (in one way or another) release its nutrients (that it had absorbed in order to grow) right back into the system.

Regarding the length of the strand, this too is an important point to understand. A 1/4" strand only has so much area to absorb light and nutrients. A 4" long strand would have 16x that area (edited...Sunday Math). The primary production of a longer strand of algae is therefore much larger - the larger a mass of algae gets, the more production occurs, and it works at a somewhat exponential rate. There are of course things that would limit that such as the quantity of light (intensity, photoperiod, etc) and availability of nutrients and so forth, so it's not going to double in growth every day until it's flowing out of your sump like the Blob. But the point is that you want to be able to grow algae as long as possible without things like self-shading take place - where a thick mat blocks light to the lower layers, causing them to die off a release nutrients back into the water. The longer you can encourage the growth to keep going, the more effective your scrubber will be.

One thing that I find common is that most people clean too often, and the result is that they never really hit that accelerated growth stage, so their scrubber doesn't operate as effectively as it could. The mindset is "I've got to keep that screen clean" is incorrect, in many cases. Overcleaning is a problem too; scrubbing the screen with a brush to remove "all of the algae" works against the scrubber, effectively causing a re-start.

As to the attachment surfaces:

The HOG and SURF upflow scrubbers use a quartz material that is bonded to the growth area that creates a surface where attachment can anchor well, and this has shown to be much more effective over a roughed up submerged plastic canvas due to the tendency of submerged algae to attach more weakly (it doesn't have to support itself). Comparatively, on a waterfall screen, the algae seems to require a stronger attachment method.

My personal experiences with scrubber I have used is that in a UAS with submerged plastic canvas, algae was very easily removed and the holes never really filled in to the point where I had to scrape the growth off (after over a year of use). Every waterfall scrubber I have run, the growth evenually fills in the holes and attaches strong enough that I can't remove the algae without scraping it, and in some cases, really putting some elbow grease into it.

Edit: as I said, I haven't actually tried roughing up a pipe, but based on my experiences with roughing up plastic canvas to different degrees and using different techniques, I can tell you that what may not seem like it would make any difference sometimes makes a huge difference.

HTH
Bud
 
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