UV- Yes or No?

Emperor's one of the only two that I know of that rate their units at the effectiveness of the bulb at the end of one year. Plus that unit you mentioned (80w HO) is a HO bulb and the HO bulbs last longer anyway.

>the turnover time for a 200 gallon tank at 200GPH is 9 hours.<

That's about right, if you guys are interested in killing parasites you'll have to get them faster than that.

>hum ... on the turnover rate ... how does that work out? Is there a formula for this<

Look up ^

I get the feeling that you guys are not interested in breaking organic bonds, degrading organics, or photochemical reactions here, right? ;) Mostly parasites.

Here's some hints for fighting parasites with UV. Run carbon, less organics clearer water. Have adequate circulation in the main system to keep any parasites suspended - they're not very good swimmers. Lower temp, slows down the reproductive cycle and allows more time for the UV to work.

Gregt (administrator here at RC) sells DIY kits for UV's and uses the same HO bulb that the top of the line manfs use. If you're slightly handy, he can save you some money. We actually started ordering our replacement bulbs through him a while back.

Jerel
 
I used to run a 40 watt UV sterilizers on my old setup: a 75 and 125 plumbed together. For the past year, I have not run UV on my 300. I have noticed that the algae grows significantly faster on the from window of the 300 over the old setup.

I have never been concerned about ich, since I run with 2 CS (cleaner shrimp) at all times.

I plan on putting the UV back on line. I just have to replace the old bulb. I accidently ripped one of he power line out of it.
 
I have to agree with Jerel here. I've written several times about UV and the strengths necessary to take out crypto parasites. Jerel also points out a few things that you need to keep parasites in suspension (high flow in the tank) and lowering temp (which slows down their repro lifecycle a bit, but you need to really lower it to gain a significant numerical advantage). My rule of thumb that I've usually worked up is that you can put about 8 x the UV strength in watts (maybe 9) as the max flow rate for killing free swimming parasites. So a 80W UV, you're looking about 640gph. Don't believe the manufacturer rates, as most of those are quoted for algae at 15/30K uW/sec2. You need to look at 90K uW/sec2 for most parasites.

That's one the main reasons that I've stated that these 9/15/25 watt UV's are pretty much useless. I've done several tests with crypto, and using UV is quite difficult as the solution. In a substrate less tank, with a 30 gallon tank, it may take a 60w UV to to tackle the problem. On a 1000 gallon tank I have, I have a UV in line just in-case - it's sized at 400W, and the flow through it is about 3000gph.

Another good brand outside of Emperor for UV is Aqua UltraViolet. They make some very good high end UV units as well.
 
I'll look into them ... know of anyone who sells them online? It looks, based on your numbers, that I may be able to get away with the 60w Aquanetics unit for $400, even with a little bulb degradation. I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish though so I'll continue to do some homework here.

A thought: Is this something that you can run 'sometimes'? For example, fish come down with Ich ... so you turn the UV on and run it for a few weeks to clear it up ...

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Joe
 
anthem said:
That's one the main reasons that I've stated that these 9/15/25 watt UV's are pretty much useless.
Click to expand...

I'm running a 25W unit on my 75G (90G total with sump) at 48GPH.

With respect to dosage, the charts in the Escobal book indicate that my delivery dosage is about 90K uW/s2. Your numbers indicate that I'm doing even better than that.

With respect to tank turnover, I'm getting a complete turnover about every 16 hours. According to the Escobal book, every 12 hours is minimal and every 24 hours is optimal. Anecdotally, the sterilizer does seem to have reduced the incidence of ich and dinoflagellates. However, it has not completely eradicated the dinoflagellates as I had hoped.

So it sounds like my delivery dosage is at least adequate, right? But am I getting enough turnover?
 
lawndoctor said:
According to the Escobal book, every 12 hours is minimal and every 24 hours is optimal.
Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense. Are you sure you're quoting this correctly ? How can it be better by turning it over 24 hours than 12 hours. 12 hours means that you turn it over twice a day vs once. . .

Honestly, that flow rate is way too slow for the tank of your size. Your flow rate is probably a bit slow for the size UV you have - that can probably be a bit higher. However, you want to turn the tank over several times an hour to have a decent chance at free swimming parasites.
 
Hum ... okay, someone check my math here please :)

On a 250g system, the Aquanetics IL60 can handle protozoans at 11gpm (660gph). If I pump water through the unit at say, 500gph, I can turn my entire tank volume over in approximately 4.5 hours or a little over 5 times a day. Even if I lose 50% of bulb life in the first 6-8 months, I should still be at 2.5 times a day turnover ... which should be fine, yes?

or do I spend the extra $300 ($400 vs $700) for the Emperor unit?

Thoughts on this? Thanks in advance!!

Joe.
 
I have to agree with Jerel here.
Click to expand...

LOL Ed, I got a mental image of Bill holding a gun to your head.:D (I know you didn't mean it that way, I just haven't had enough coffee yet.)

A couple more points about lowering temp is slowing the fishes metabolism down and more O2 being available.

I couldn't remember Aqua UV's. But they are the other company that also uses the HO bulbs. I've never used them, but I've heard nothing bad about them at all.

Joe,

I would go with a 80w H(igh) O(utput) bulb minimum on a 250gal.

Good Morning!
Jerel
 
Jerel,anthem & all............great info on UV. I've searched through numerous threads over the past four months on this subject & this is by far the most informative. Thanks for sharing.
 
Big E, I had to go back and find this thread, I'll bet you didn't find this one. ;) It's actually got a lot of good information on UV's and goes into a little more detail.
It's even funnier if you know the background on it.
Disclaimer: I had decided to quit smoking, was wearing two of those patches and hopped up on coffee. A couple of people on that thread knew this and were having a ball with it.

Enjoy :D

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=69304
 
or do I spend the extra $300 ($400 vs $700) for the Emperor unit?
Click to expand...
Have you emailed Greg about it yet? The manufacturer regulates how low a store can publish a price. I know there's a lot of times when you ask him about a product, he will offer a lower price than is on his website.
 
Jerel, Yeah, I remember that thread. I still disagree with you on plumbing quarantine in-line, even with a humongous sized UV. It's just too risky. Who knows what will happen, the flow rate slows enough for the flow meter on the UV to turn the UV off for fear of frying the sleeve, something gets past that isn't fried (some larger things like flukes, whatever). hehe.

In terms of using it for treating crypto, I'm still against UV. In terms of it being an insurance policy that /might/ help - sure.

Yes, Aqua UV and Emperor both use HO uv units. It's a helluva nicer and more efficient to use a HO 400watt unit, than a pallet sized 8 bulbs x 50w (or more bulbs) beast. . . .

Also, anyone looking at using large uv units MUST keep in mind the additional heat that gets added into the water. Running a 60W UV on a 80/120 gallon tank will add several degrees easy. You really need to look at some sort of heat removal (chiller, etc).
 
Hey Bomber or anyone else who wants to chyme in,

Since you seem to know about this stuff, just wanted your input.

I have a 120g cube tank with a 20gal sump. Total water volume is probably around 100-120gal.

According to your recommendation, I would need something that can do 500-600gph right?

It appears the Emperor 50w HO would be best, but it is very expensive. I know you said the quartz sleeve isnt needed since temps dont dip below 70 in my house...

Are there any other UV systems out there you would recommend? I'd probably run it at a flow rate to kill parasites initially, but then eventually run it to eliminate algae etc...only dropping down to parasite flow rate when adding new fish or if new infections occur.

Can you recommend anything that is a little more affordable?

thanks
G
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6612457#post6612457 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ghever
Hey Bomber or anyone else who wants to chyme in,

Since you seem to know about this stuff, just wanted your input.

I have a 120g cube tank with a 20gal sump. Total water volume is probably around 100-120gal.

According to your recommendation, I would need something that can do 500-600gph right?

It appears the Emperor 50w HO would be best, but it is very expensive. I know you said the quartz sleeve isnt needed since temps dont dip below 70 in my house...

Are there any other UV systems out there you would recommend? I'd probably run it at a flow rate to kill parasites initially, but then eventually run it to eliminate algae etc...only dropping down to parasite flow rate when adding new fish or if new infections occur.

Can you recommend anything that is a little more affordable?

thanks
G
Click to expand...

I run that same 50w HO unit on my 180g with 70g Sump ... the Emperor stuff is awesome, and their newer units have a Quartz Sleeve Wiper as an Option ... I definitely would go with their stuff ... I just replaced my bulb this week after a year or so (wasn't burnt out, but was doing other maintenance and figured I should change it out). I can tell you that all the cases of Ich disappeared ... I battled ich for years using Hypo and Copper and all sorts of stuff ... the only thing that helped my guys fight it off was this HO UV unit. Water is super clear as well ... I can't believe it took me as long as it did to put one of these inline. :(
 
bump... cause i still would like some more opinion or options out there.. is the emperor 50w HO pretty much as cheap as it is going to get for me for an effective UV?

G
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6623485#post6623485 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ghever
bump... cause i still would like some more opinion or options out there.. is the emperor 50w HO pretty much as cheap as it is going to get for me for an effective UV?

G
Click to expand...

I think that the 50w HO is their smallest HO unit ... I know someone that sells them and can find out what it would run you. Though Bomber might be able to put you in contact with someone who can discount better?

From my conversations with Bomber in the past, I've learned that UV is something that you don't want to skimp on ... if you buy one too small, it's like buying nothing (so a big waste of money). I ended up going with the 50w HO on the 180/70 and have been extremely happy with it. I only wish that they had the Quartz Wiper option when I bought mine. I also run mine at about 500gph so I can cycle my entire tank about 50 times per day. I also found, thanks again to Bomber, that by placing the output of the UV near the intake of the Skimmer, much much much much much more 'poopies' come out ... ;)
 
thanks

thanks

jdg,

thanks for that info...I was just hoping there would be some other HO unit out there without the quartz sleeve, since it seems like they arent necessary for indoor use since temp is above 55 at all times. And I know that the quartz sleeve is an added cost.

Oh well, sounds like the 50w HO by emperor is my best bet..

If you can find out pricing for me, PM me ... I have found couple of places on line, and one of them price matches, and I found it for cheaper at a separate site, so I might be able to get it for sub $500.. we'll see.

G
 
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