Ventilation for fish room
- Thread starter Dmorty217
- Start date
A_CoupleClowns
New member
Sorry for coming in and hi-jacking your thread, just realized, LOL.
I bet you will evaporate a bit more than 100g a week in the winter months with 1300G total volume. Last Sunday we just tore down our 700g total volume system that we had at our old place, and we would go through around 10g+ a day on that. I topped it off and dosed manually so I really got to know how much water it was evaporating.
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
No worries on the hijacking. This isn't just to benefit me. Your probably right about more than 100g of evap a week.
daplatapus
New member
Have a quick peek at this site:
http://www.hvacquick.com/sysbuilder/hrvbuild.php
There's a calculator to help size a unit. And here's a decent link explaining how it's all supposed to work if it's installed correctly.
http://vanee.edenenergy.com/hw-vanee-airexchanger.php
http://www.hvacquick.com/sysbuilder/hrvbuild.php
There's a calculator to help size a unit. And here's a decent link explaining how it's all supposed to work if it's installed correctly.
http://vanee.edenenergy.com/hw-vanee-airexchanger.php
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A_CoupleClowns
New member
daplatapus
New member
That question too is always a cause for debate, even amount professionals. Have a read of this (the pertinent stuff is only a couple paragraphs)
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-much-fresh-air-does-your-home-need
But keep in mind our humidity loading is far more than just an average home. I'd be using the upper end of whatever side of the argument you choose to believe
gotfrogs
Premium Member
I purchase a Panasonic FV-04VE1 WhisperComfort Spot ERV. Out of fear of it pumping in chemicals from outside (such as the mosquito sprayer), I connected a Airbox 1 Stealth Edition 500 CFM 4" flanges HT4496 (carbon air filter) to the air inlet.
I plan on connecting it to a CO2 monitor and only turn it on when CO2 or RH gets too high.
I plan on connecting it to a CO2 monitor and only turn it on when CO2 or RH gets too high.
veloboy
New member
daplatapus-
I too live in Minneapolis MN and will be installing an HRV in my smaller, old (1930-) home. My tanks, totaling near 500 gallons, will be located in my landry/mechanical room where my gas dryer and hot water heater are located. Currently there is no make-up air supply to this room. I was planning on installing my HRV to service just this room (exhaust from and bring fresh air back into this room). Is it possible to have the HRV malfunction and just exhaust air rather than venting and bringing in fresh dry air thus creating a potentially dangerous negative pressure situation? Would it be a good idea install a make-up air supply near the hot water heater just in case?
I too live in Minneapolis MN and will be installing an HRV in my smaller, old (1930-) home. My tanks, totaling near 500 gallons, will be located in my landry/mechanical room where my gas dryer and hot water heater are located. Currently there is no make-up air supply to this room. I was planning on installing my HRV to service just this room (exhaust from and bring fresh air back into this room). Is it possible to have the HRV malfunction and just exhaust air rather than venting and bringing in fresh dry air thus creating a potentially dangerous negative pressure situation? Would it be a good idea install a make-up air supply near the hot water heater just in case?
jjk_reef00
New member
This is an excellent thread, and I'm learning a lot for my dream build which is still a few years out
I know at least 2 people in Arizona with dedicated mini split ac in their fish rooms.
Does anyone know if that is the prefered solution for hot climates or is there a better option?
I know at least 2 people in Arizona with dedicated mini split ac in their fish rooms.
Does anyone know if that is the prefered solution for hot climates or is there a better option?
daplatapus
New member
Mini-splits are an interesting idea. They will remove the humidity by means of condensation during the cooling cycle. I know some have a de-humidifying setting but I've never used that feature so can't speak to that side.
One possible minus is they don't actual vent any air to outside nor bring in any fresh air. Some of the nicer ones I've seen are built by Mitsubishi, very energy efficient for heating and cooling in the right environment. I'd imagine most of the heat exchangers are made from stainless steel simply because of the volume of water that these will see through their life span, but it would be the first thing I would confirm before I bought one. I'd also make sure the condensate drain is well plumbed with solid PVC and not some of the cheaper flexible plastic pipe that I've seen all kinked up resulting in very poor flow of the drains.
gotfrogs: I'm not sure how they'll be longterm around salt exposure either. IF you maintain a good schedule of filter cleaning and maybe spray the heat exchanger down with RODI water every few months, it certainly won't hurt.
IF you need the air conditioning for the majority of the year in the room you install it, a mini split is and option. But for the cost, if all you're trying to do is ventilate humidity out of your home, there are more energy and cost efficient ways of accomplishing it IMHO.
One possible minus is they don't actual vent any air to outside nor bring in any fresh air. Some of the nicer ones I've seen are built by Mitsubishi, very energy efficient for heating and cooling in the right environment. I'd imagine most of the heat exchangers are made from stainless steel simply because of the volume of water that these will see through their life span, but it would be the first thing I would confirm before I bought one. I'd also make sure the condensate drain is well plumbed with solid PVC and not some of the cheaper flexible plastic pipe that I've seen all kinked up resulting in very poor flow of the drains.
gotfrogs: I'm not sure how they'll be longterm around salt exposure either. IF you maintain a good schedule of filter cleaning and maybe spray the heat exchanger down with RODI water every few months, it certainly won't hurt.
IF you need the air conditioning for the majority of the year in the room you install it, a mini split is and option. But for the cost, if all you're trying to do is ventilate humidity out of your home, there are more energy and cost efficient ways of accomplishing it IMHO.
daplatapus
New member
I have seen some units with a pressure switch on fresh air side which doesn't allow the exhaust side to run unless it is. But I've also seen them without. I'd imagine that is very model/manufacturer specific. Add that feature to your checklist when you're doing your research to buy one.
If you have a gas fired appliance like a hot water heater and/or furnace, those particular rooms really should have combustion air provided to them already (unless they are high efficient direct vents with plumbed combustion air to them).
If yours doesn't I'd be tempted to have someone take a look at your situation to see if you need it. Many of the older homes have so much leakage, it wasn't a concern. But as people build or renovate their homes and seal things up, it becomes a greater concern.
Keep in mind too, what all these things are actually doing. There are instances like was mentioned earlier where my conditions are totally different from some one else who lives on the other end of the country. It may be that HRV's or ERV's are simply not the answer. In warm moist climates these units may actually do more harm than good. If the air outside is warmer and moister than inside - ventilating all you want won't help. In these cases a stand alone de-humidifier may be your answer. Here's a great read on some things to consider as well.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/hrv-or-erv
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
Thank you for all of your insight and first hand knowledge on this... If it weren't for you I would still think putting a squirrel cage blower in a window of my basement was a good idea and providing some sort of benefit. This has opened my eyes to what is really needed for this to work correctly
daplatapus
New member
With negative air pressure, air from outside is sucked into your home. Not necessarily a bad thing unless the only place it can suck air is where a gas appliance is supposed to vent the products of combustion. When those flue gases are prevented from escaping to outside via a chimney, because the negative pressure is causing a down draft in the chimney, they now vent into your home. Now there is the very real danger of carbon monoxide poisoning which can kill you in your sleep.
A curious little stat I just looked up: from 1999-2010 there was an average 430 deaths per year from non fire related carbon monoxide poisoning in the US
A curious little stat I just looked up: from 1999-2010 there was an average 430 deaths per year from non fire related carbon monoxide poisoning in the US
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daplatapus
New member
Yes, carbon monoxide is more likely to be produced in harmful amounts from HW tanks and furnaces, but entirely possible from gas stoves. Like everything, it would be very dependent on conditions existing at a specific time. At the very least, even from a gas stove, it has the very real potential of producing unhealthy accumulations of burned gas byproducts. Side effects can include head aches, nausea, vomiting ect. Not for the faint of heart.
And just as a very minor side note - one of the major byproducts of burning natural gas... water vapour. Totally worsening our cause, lol.
Check this out from Rheem's website:
Combustion is defined as a chemical reaction of oxygen with a combustible material, such as a gas fuel. This chemical reaction that we call "˜fire' produces light and heat. The chemical process of the gas fuel and the oxygen also produce a by-product we call flue gas. During incomplete combustion, the principle flue gasses are composed of carbon monoxide, hydrogen, carbon dioxide and water vapor. Incomplete combustion is always present when the efficiency rating of the water heater is below 92%. Anytime you have the presence of carbon monoxide in the flue gas, you have incomplete combustion.
Perfect combustion is the complete burning of a gas fuel with a careful balance of the required amount of fuel, air and oxygen. The principle by-products of a perfect combustion process are essentially carbon dioxide, water vapor and nitrogen. As the combustion process is improved, so does the thermal efficiency of the water heater. Assuming we had 100% complete combustion of a cubic foot of natural gas (mostly methane), the combustion by products would be one cubic foot of carbon dioxide and two cubic feet of water vapor.
