Vodka dosing going no where??

[tmz]

Good luck.
For clarification, the vodka does not get rid of any bacteria it feeds them. Aggressive skimming is needed to remove the excess bacteria and excess organics..Using gac is a good idea too. A "crash" is likely to occur from too many bacteria depleting oxygen as may occur when too much carbon is dosed; not too few.

Some use commercial bacterial concoctions to boost bacteria short term with the hope that they will out compete less desireable carbon consumers such as cyanobacteria for example. I prefer to rely on the bacteria in the tank and let them grow into the task without outside competition. Varying the carbon source( such as switching some vinegar for vodka )may help promote some beneficial diversity in the indigenous bacteria.
Most dosing regimes for bacteria involve ongoing dosing which suggests that the bacteria dosed are not viable long term in the aquarium, a circumstance which requires continual purchase of the product.

 

[aquaph8]

I was always told not to run GFO with vodka dosing. Maybe something to look into. There are many smarter guys then me in this forum and Im sure they will comment but its just what I heard.

 

[mike810]

I was always told not to run GFO with vodka dosing. Maybe something to look into. There are many smarter guys then me in this forum and Im sure they will comment but its just what I heard.

He said GAC (carbon) not GFO. Anyways, from what i've read, GFO is not needed but many still tend to run it due to the vodka lowering nitrates and the increased feedings. Increased feedings means more phosphates entering the system so ppl continue to use it. I'm Still running GAC and GFO. When I was out of GFO for 2 weeks, I saw a lot of algae growth on my glass.

 

[aquaph8]

read the whole thread it says GFO and GAC in the first post.

 

[tmz]

No reason not to run gfo. It's likely needed to ensure low PO4 levels even with carbon dosing( vodka.vinegar ,etc.)since plenty of
PO4 comes in with food and waste. The bacteria will consume some PO4 along with nitrogen and organic carbon but likely not enough to keep PO4 very low. Keep in mind reef water levels of PO4 are a scant .005ppm. I have been running gfo and gac alongside carbon dosing for about 16 months. Don't know where you heard you shouldn't use it. Many do and I need it to keep PO4 under .05ppm.

 

[aquaph8]

Good to know. Dont quote me on this but I think it was Sunnys thread. But like I said, its just what I heard. Did you notice a change in your PO4 well before your nitrates like I did?

 

[Genetics]

Also, remember that phosphate tests measure inorganic phosphate and not total phosphate in the water. I would up see how 4mL of vodka goes on your tank.

Side question, do you have a sandbed?

 

[tmz]

Yes, it seems to take longer for the NO3 to go down. I suspect bacteria in the water column respond quickly to the extra carbon and use phosphate as well as some nitrogen from the NO3 for food. I think it takes longer for the carbon to enhance anaerobic activity where the oxygen from the NO3 is used for respiration and may be used in larger quantities. In my case I took down high nitrates with a sulfur denitrator and then maintained them at very low levels with carbon dosing.

Well, wherever you heard not to use gfo when dosing carbon I disagree with it. Living things need organic carbon(C)( sourced to heterotrophs and produced by autotrophs via photosynthesis),nitrogen(N) and phosphorous(P). They consume CNP in certain proportions which vary somewhat by organism. For perspective a general ratio of 116C to 16N to 1P ( redfield ratio) is useful. As you can see very little phosphate is taken in relative to nitrogen or carbon . This coupled with the extremely low natural level of PO4(surface reef waers hold about .005ppm) makes it very unlikely that a PO4 deficiency inhibiting nitrogen reduction could occur in a tank receiving any food.

 

[aquaph8]

TMZ, thanks for the follow up as well as the extra info. Very imformative.

 

[mike810]

Also, remember that phosphate tests measure inorganic phosphate and not total phosphate in the water. I would up see how 4mL of vodka goes on your tank.

Side question, do you have a sandbed?

I do have a sandbed, a couple inches of aragonite alive sand. I'm due for my 1 week WC but I will hold off on that. I want to see how my tank responds to 4ML of vodka dosing. If there are no changes for the week i'm dosing 4ml. I will do my WC and bump the dosage up to 5ml. Does this sound like a good plan?

 

[Genetics]

Sounds like a plan. Have you noticed any increase in your skimmate?

 

[tmz]

TMZ, thanks for the follow up as well as the extra info. Very imformative.


You are welcome.

 

[mike810]

Sounds like a plan. Have you noticed any increase in your skimmate?

I have noticed increased skimmate, but I noticed this before I bumped my dosage up to 4ML. I recently added a few fishes which increased my bioload. I had a relatively light bioload before so my skimmer did not skim very well. I would consider my tank to be a heavy bioload now. Tons of new sps and a few fishes within a month. anthias eat a lot :beer:


BTW: is that a mystery wrasses in your avatar?

 

[Genetics]

I have noticed increased skimmate, but I noticed this before I bumped my dosage up to 4ML. I recently added a few fishes which increased my bioload. I had a relatively light bioload before so my skimmer did not skim very well. I would consider my tank to be a heavy bioload now. Tons of new sps and a few fishes within a month. anthias eat a lot :beer:


BTW: is that a mystery wrasses in your avatar?

Increase in skimmate is a good sign that it is reaching levels that work in decreasing nitrates.

Yes, it is a picture I took of my mystery wrasse. It took me a little while to photo edit to a form I liked and that would post on RC.

 

[mike810]

just did a test for nitrates, still at 20ppm. been dosing 4ml for 4days now. Safe to say I should bump it up to 5ml?

 

[shandy_say]

Im no expert with vodka dosing since I myself have been experiencing the same thing...but patience bro...only bad things happen quickly in this hobby!

 

[mike810]

i have been patient, the only reason why I'd consider bumping it to 5ml is cause some of the people who posted here said it was most likely safe to do so before I bumped it up to 4ml.

 

[shandy_say]

Do you mean you dosed it up to 5ml then when your nitrates hit 0 thats when you will go back to the maintenance dose of 4ml?

I myself am dosing 6ml of vodka per day already and have not yet seen any decrease in nitrates.

 

[mike810]

what is your total water volume? i have been dosing per the vodka dosing guide. bumping it up .05ml every week. but i have not seen any results even though i am at 4ml now. I am thinking about jumping up to 5ml and see if that has any results on my nitrates after about a week. If I see no results i will bring it up to 5.5ml or maybe 6ml if there are no objections from the vodka dosing pros on here.

 

[shandy_say]

my total water volume is about 100gals. I read through melevs reefs thread and saw it took him about 7 months before he saw any decrease in his nitrates cause of his dsb. Do you have a dsb? I think what you're doing now is what has been recommended and is actually what ive been doing also. I know how it feels to not see any difference despite the time it has taken already.