jordancemery65
New member
i dont use vinegar, however have thought of doing 70% vodka and 30% vinegar just havent gotten around to it.... Does the above post of 3.4 ml vodka sound right?
Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic carbon dosing
- Thread starter tmz
- Start date
Most folks settle in around .04 to .07 ml vodka per gallon(.32 ml to .56 ml vinegar per gallon) but each tank is different. 3.4ml vodka for 72 =.047. Vinegar is 95% water, 80 proof vodka is 60% water. So it takes 8ml of standard 5% vinegar to equal 1ml of vodka.
jordancemery65
New member
hence why we multiply by eight if using vinegar! That makes sense. Yeah, i am still climbing and waiting for the nitrates to go down. I just ordered a new salifert test kit to test for nitrates.... I am using a Red Sea kit which is about 5 or 6 years old... Once the nitrates go down i am supposed to cut the dose in half if i remember right.... because then i basically do somewhat of a "maintenance dose".
jordancemery65
New member
just got my salifert test kit in last night... My nitrates are at 50... I talked to the guy at the LFS and he has had a very bad experience with Vodka, and he told me to shy away from it.... I have not seen any ill effects from using the vodka so i think i am going to continue on with it... I have not had any algae outbreaks or anything... just my nitrates won't go down! hahah... I do have a DSB that could be holding some nitrates in it... not sure...
jordancemery65
New member
Tom, I have a question regarding the use of Vinegar. I currently only dose vodka but was reading somewhere that the more carbon sources you use the better off you would be. So i want to start dosing vinegar as well as the vodka... the same way you do (just want to automate it with pumps) anways i was wondering how much you would recommend to add. I know that 8ml of vinegar is equal to 1 ml of vodka but i guess i just cant figure out the right ratio/percentages.
jordancemery65
New member
Tom, I have a question regarding the use of Vinegar. I currently only dose vodka but was reading somewhere that the more carbon sources you use the better off you would be. So i want to start dosing vinegar as well as the vodka... the same way you do (just want to automate it with pumps) anways i was wondering how much you would recommend to add. I know that 8ml of vinegar is equal to 1 ml of vodka but i guess i just cant figure out the right ratio/percentages. can you tell me what you would do?
Well,
First there is no evidence that using mulitple carbon sources or dosing bacterial supplements will achieve bacterial diversity and more importantly, perhaps , nothing to suggest that such diversity if acheived is at all benefical. It might very well be harmful as with sugar for example.
Both vodka and vinegar are close to the bottom of the degradation ladder as carbohydrates move to sugars to ehtanol and then to acetic acid, on to acetate a beneifical substance and in deep se beds and muck and mire methane gas. Vodka wihich is ethanol and water oxidizes to acetic acid( vinegar is acetic acid and water). Using either or both of them eliminates the bacterial activity that occurs higher up the chainwith carbohydrate like plastic pellets, starches and sugars.
I use roughly 75% of the mix is ethanol and 25% is acetic acid. If that's the mix you'd like to use:
A) take you current vodka dose and mulitply it by .75 for your new vodka dose ;
B) Take you current vodka dose and multiply it by .25and then by 8 to get your new vinegar dose
C) The sum of A and B will be roughly equivalent to your current dose of vodka in terms of organic carbon dose.
First there is no evidence that using mulitple carbon sources or dosing bacterial supplements will achieve bacterial diversity and more importantly, perhaps , nothing to suggest that such diversity if acheived is at all benefical. It might very well be harmful as with sugar for example.
Both vodka and vinegar are close to the bottom of the degradation ladder as carbohydrates move to sugars to ehtanol and then to acetic acid, on to acetate a beneifical substance and in deep se beds and muck and mire methane gas. Vodka wihich is ethanol and water oxidizes to acetic acid( vinegar is acetic acid and water). Using either or both of them eliminates the bacterial activity that occurs higher up the chainwith carbohydrate like plastic pellets, starches and sugars.
I use roughly 75% of the mix is ethanol and 25% is acetic acid. If that's the mix you'd like to use:
A) take you current vodka dose and mulitply it by .75 for your new vodka dose ;
B) Take you current vodka dose and multiply it by .25and then by 8 to get your new vinegar dose
C) The sum of A and B will be roughly equivalent to your current dose of vodka in terms of organic carbon dose.
jordancemery65
New member
Thanks,
I retested today with a brand new salifert test kit the nitrates were still greater than 100. I am not sure if this is allowed but i was curious
so i took 1 ml of tank water and 9 ml of distilled water and redid the test.. it was at 25 so i multiplied it by 100 and received 250 for a value... I donk know if it is accurate or not i was just a little curious.... Anyways... i also added a poly fiber to hopefully help somewhat.... I took the skimmer out and cleaned the pump and adjusted to get proper aeration.... I re adjested to get more of a "wet skim" I know i am still early in the vodka process and hopefully i will see my nitrates go down soon! I am sure they already are i just am not seeing it... I had a very old red sea test kit i was using and didnt think it was reliable so i just bought the salifert one... so i really dont know where the nitrates were prior to this salifert kit. What would you recommend? Just keep going with the vinegar and wait to see if they go down? I have been testing daily and they have been over 100... i am not sure if what i did would have been accurate or not with the test kit but its the onyl thing i could think of.... hahaha
I retested today with a brand new salifert test kit the nitrates were still greater than 100. I am not sure if this is allowed but i was curious
so i took 1 ml of tank water and 9 ml of distilled water and redid the test.. it was at 25 so i multiplied it by 100 and received 250 for a value... I donk know if it is accurate or not i was just a little curious.... Anyways... i also added a poly fiber to hopefully help somewhat.... I took the skimmer out and cleaned the pump and adjusted to get proper aeration.... I re adjested to get more of a "wet skim" I know i am still early in the vodka process and hopefully i will see my nitrates go down soon! I am sure they already are i just am not seeing it... I had a very old red sea test kit i was using and didnt think it was reliable so i just bought the salifert one... so i really dont know where the nitrates were prior to this salifert kit. What would you recommend? Just keep going with the vinegar and wait to see if they go down? I have been testing daily and they have been over 100... i am not sure if what i did would have been accurate or not with the test kit but its the onyl thing i could think of.... hahahajordancemery65
New member
Double post 
Very high nitrates are difficult to crack with organic carbon without causing a bacterial bloom or overdosing. It can take a long time .
In my case I took them down into a reasonable range 10ppm or so; then began dosing. Despite high feeding they have been constant at >0.2 for several years. I used a diy sulfur denitrator for the then 550 gallon system. With a 72 gallon tank, I'd slow down the feeding and do series of 15% water changes say 6 or 8 over the course of a week and then the dosing should be able to keep up with imports unless there is another source in the tank.
What is your PO4 level?
How old is the sand bed?
In my case I took them down into a reasonable range 10ppm or so; then began dosing. Despite high feeding they have been constant at >0.2 for several years. I used a diy sulfur denitrator for the then 550 gallon system. With a 72 gallon tank, I'd slow down the feeding and do series of 15% water changes say 6 or 8 over the course of a week and then the dosing should be able to keep up with imports unless there is another source in the tank.
What is your PO4 level?
How old is the sand bed?
jordancemery65
New member
ive had the sand bed since i started the tank about 3 years ago now.... PO4 is at 0.04 according to the LFS... i am going to order a phosphate test from salifert as well... because he is using a red sea test kid... and i just dont trust those... I will start doing more water changes to try to get it down more....
jordancemery65
New member
I have cut my feeding way down to... the sad thing is, i didnt know this was the problem until about 8 weeks ago when i started this dosing thing.... Should i take out the bio balls or leave them in? I have never changed them because someone said to leave them alone... i am thinking i should remove them and clean them... but i dont want to disturb anything right now.... ugh...
jordancemery65
New member
Update - Nitrates are down to 50 with a huge water change the other day, and two 15% water changes - one last night, then again today.... I have tested the water after the first one and it had brought them down to the 25-50 mark and the nitrates havent changed since... I can tell that they are fluctuating a little bit because the pink color from the test seems lighter sometimes and darker others...
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but do you have bioballs in your sump?
jordancemery65
New member
Yes, i do have bio balls... i removed 1/4 of them the other night and am going to remove some more... How would you advise?
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
I would remove them slowly over a couple of weeks. You have more than enough live rock in your system (120 lbs.?) to handle things.
I wouldn't be surprised if you see your nitrate situation improve fairly quickly after removing the bioballs.
I would also consider removing the majority of hour sand over time as well. A 4-5 inch sand bed can trap a lot of detritus and harbor lots of nutrients.
I wouldn't be surprised if you see your nitrate situation improve fairly quickly after removing the bioballs.
I would also consider removing the majority of hour sand over time as well. A 4-5 inch sand bed can trap a lot of detritus and harbor lots of nutrients.
jordancemery65
New member
Sweet! I Removed a bunch of them yesterday... and never even saw a change in my tank... actually the tank looks better! But then again i never know what it is because of. I dont know if it was the 60-70% water change or the removal of the bio balls, or even the vin/vod dosing... hahaha... I removed a bunch more bio balls tonight... will remove some more next week... Hopefully i can get this crap under control!
S2minute
New member
Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic
Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic
With using vinegar, this read was very helpful. It even mentions where any excess vinegar may be used as a carbon source.
http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html
Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic
With using vinegar, this read was very helpful. It even mentions where any excess vinegar may be used as a carbon source.
http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html
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