Volcano club
- Thread starter tom obrecht
- Start date
looking good nanook... so you are saying that we should follow your "example" and mod our Volcanos like you did your Geo ? I am just trying to frame your posts within the thread topic. 
. Your skimmer seems to really be running great, kudos , I only hope to have our Volcano running somewhat similar to that 
. So just to clarify, you changed the tubing going to the venturi/inlet from the air pump, but you didn't change the venturi itself ? If no change to the actual venturi then I agree w/hahn about the bleen off option very likely having the same result, but it looks like the venturi itself is pretty short, so maybe the smaller diameter air feed pipe does affect the air injection beyond just throttling it somewhat.
I, like several on this thread, have an 1860 Volcano(fed by an Alita 40) that is functioning less than optimally. Long story short is that I have been away from the boards, and mostly the hobby, for over a year now (ever since our daughter was born). At about the same time my work ramped up to 60+ hr work week levels. During that time, like Tom, we experienced major livestock loss to the tune of 90% of our SPS, 15% of our LPS, inverts, clams, fish. At the time I had chalked it up to just a lack of attention on my part (although I specifically bought the Volcano the first of last year because I knew I would not have the time to preform proper maintenance and was hoping to leverage the "superior" skimmer to provide some "breathing room"). As I already noted, that very much did not go as planned, although I don't know if I can lay 100% of the blame on the skimmer, I just know that it didn't do anything to help the situation, and I will leave it at that.
I had been waiting on a new NW from Scott, but after reading through this thread I know now that I need to focus on "solving" this on my own, which is fine, it is just good to know one way or the other. I am glad to see that other Volcano owners and some "experts" in the skimmer field have come together here to try to find ways to turn these skimmers into performant foam fractioners.
I will re-state what others have said, that being that these are extremely well built, and I really want to find a way to make it work, not to mention that I just flat out do not have the discretionary funds required to go out and purchase a replacement skimmer.
Now that I have level set, let's get down to business
I had followed Jonathans skimmer back when he first set it up, but had not "caught up" for some time. I had always been impressed w/ the output from his skimmer (more like jealous). I do like the idea of a hybrid, possibly using our Alita to push airstone(s) at or near the input of the recirc pump in the volcano. That would take care of bubble size, etc.
The mesh mod also sounds interesting, but there does seem to be a couple of posts implying that the mesh won't "survive" long term at the RPMs that the dart spins at. That leads back to the Laguna pump option. At this point I would pay for a modded Laguna pump to try out. So if any modders out there have a working Laguna with a modified Volute and NW/MW, please PM me (Is MW an accepted acronym for Mesh Wheel these days ?).
I do know that "tuning" of the air input never seemed to help much. Our unit had one of the first wet necks that we ended up removing (at Scott's recommendation), so "tuning" that piece of it is no longer needed or an option. Even so we have alot of turbulence in the cone and neck, much more than I feel there should be.
P.S. Jonathan, I still have your tank moving suction cups in a box in our garage. I will try to get them shipped once I get a break.
. Your skimmer seems to really be running great, kudos , I only hope to have our Volcano running somewhat similar to that . So just to clarify, you changed the tubing going to the venturi/inlet from the air pump, but you didn't change the venturi itself ? If no change to the actual venturi then I agree w/hahn about the bleen off option very likely having the same result, but it looks like the venturi itself is pretty short, so maybe the smaller diameter air feed pipe does affect the air injection beyond just throttling it somewhat.I, like several on this thread, have an 1860 Volcano(fed by an Alita 40) that is functioning less than optimally. Long story short is that I have been away from the boards, and mostly the hobby, for over a year now (ever since our daughter was born). At about the same time my work ramped up to 60+ hr work week levels. During that time, like Tom, we experienced major livestock loss to the tune of 90% of our SPS, 15% of our LPS, inverts, clams, fish. At the time I had chalked it up to just a lack of attention on my part (although I specifically bought the Volcano the first of last year because I knew I would not have the time to preform proper maintenance and was hoping to leverage the "superior" skimmer to provide some "breathing room"). As I already noted, that very much did not go as planned, although I don't know if I can lay 100% of the blame on the skimmer, I just know that it didn't do anything to help the situation, and I will leave it at that.
I had been waiting on a new NW from Scott, but after reading through this thread I know now that I need to focus on "solving" this on my own, which is fine, it is just good to know one way or the other. I am glad to see that other Volcano owners and some "experts" in the skimmer field have come together here to try to find ways to turn these skimmers into performant foam fractioners
.I will re-state what others have said, that being that these are extremely well built, and I really want to find a way to make it work, not to mention that I just flat out do not have the discretionary funds required to go out and purchase a replacement skimmer.
Now that I have level set, let's get down to business
I had followed Jonathans skimmer back when he first set it up, but had not "caught up" for some time. I had always been impressed w/ the output from his skimmer (more like jealous
). I do like the idea of a hybrid, possibly using our Alita to push airstone(s) at or near the input of the recirc pump in the volcano. That would take care of bubble size, etc.The mesh mod also sounds interesting, but there does seem to be a couple of posts implying that the mesh won't "survive" long term at the RPMs that the dart spins at. That leads back to the Laguna pump option. At this point I would pay for a modded Laguna pump to try out. So if any modders out there have a working Laguna with a modified Volute and NW/MW, please PM me (Is MW an accepted acronym for Mesh Wheel these days ?).
I do know that "tuning" of the air input never seemed to help much. Our unit had one of the first wet necks that we ended up removing (at Scott's recommendation), so "tuning" that piece of it is no longer needed or an option. Even so we have alot of turbulence in the cone and neck, much more than I feel there should be.
P.S. Jonathan, I still have your tank moving suction cups in a box in our garage. I will try to get them shipped once I get a break.
jnarowe
New member
NO sweat Tom, and sorry to hear about the losses. I am indeed surprised at this turn of events, since I had felt the Volcano would be my next skimmer.
I wouldn't bother with a mesh mod. I think they can be productive in smaller skimmers to decrease bubble size, but on a large skimmer, I think a more "macro" approach needs to be taken. Having said that, looking at the vids of my skimmer and seeing it in person will show you that it is fairly "turbulent" and I am not convinced that is the problem you guys are dealing with.
It's my opinion that there is no substitute for air volume itself. Perhaps fine-tuning to reduce turbulence would be helpful, but first you guys need to ram a lot of air into those skimmers.
Also please keep in mind that my neck is 24" tall. WAY too tall probably, but I built it based on combination of info. gleaned from Snailman's DIY, early square work by HTK, and other sources. It is entirely possible my skimmer would perform better with a shorter neck.
Then you see Dave's skimmer there with a tall neck and one hell of an air-filled body. That thing is really rockin'. They make good stuff and obviously with a mod it really is doing a good job. You really couldn't hope for much better bubble density.
I wouldn't bother with a mesh mod. I think they can be productive in smaller skimmers to decrease bubble size, but on a large skimmer, I think a more "macro" approach needs to be taken. Having said that, looking at the vids of my skimmer and seeing it in person will show you that it is fairly "turbulent" and I am not convinced that is the problem you guys are dealing with.
It's my opinion that there is no substitute for air volume itself. Perhaps fine-tuning to reduce turbulence would be helpful, but first you guys need to ram a lot of air into those skimmers.
Also please keep in mind that my neck is 24" tall. WAY too tall probably, but I built it based on combination of info. gleaned from Snailman's DIY, early square work by HTK, and other sources. It is entirely possible my skimmer would perform better with a shorter neck.
Then you see Dave's skimmer there with a tall neck and one hell of an air-filled body. That thing is really rockin'. They make good stuff and obviously with a mod it really is doing a good job. You really couldn't hope for much better bubble density.
yea, his bubble density is off the charts. Very impressive.
Thanks for the condolences on our livestock losses. Like I said, unlike Tom, I have several other factors that could, and probably did, play a role in our losses.
Not sure what to do next w/ our skimmer. Maybe a bigger Alita, since most others w/ an 1860 are running Alita 60s and mine was shipped w/ a 40. I do note that, at least in our skimmer, that the bubbles are definitely not small, so remedying that seems like the best first step, either through a NW mod of some sort (which requires draining the skimmer, so it would not be my first choice.. or at least something I would only want to do once) or changing the air injection by using an airstone or two off of our Alita w/ the airstones at or near the recirc pump intake.
There has got to be a way to take these well built skimmer bodies and turning them into amazing skimmers. I know that Energy has great results, but I truly attribute that to his skimmer having a 24" diameter (which I didn't have room for, both in our fish room and in our budget).
BTW, I also have one of his CA Rx and have been pretty happy w. it. There were some noise problems w/ the earlier designs (that we have), but there were also supposed to be some retrofit parts to make them more quiet (like the newer designs he made). Since I have stopped waiting for the retrofit parts, I need to dig back into my memory and try to recall how he described the design difference to make the changes myself. It had to do w/ how he recirculated the CO2. Anyways, that is another topic for another thread.
Thanks for the condolences on our livestock losses. Like I said, unlike Tom, I have several other factors that could, and probably did, play a role in our losses.
Not sure what to do next w/ our skimmer. Maybe a bigger Alita, since most others w/ an 1860 are running Alita 60s and mine was shipped w/ a 40. I do note that, at least in our skimmer, that the bubbles are definitely not small, so remedying that seems like the best first step, either through a NW mod of some sort (which requires draining the skimmer, so it would not be my first choice.. or at least something I would only want to do once) or changing the air injection by using an airstone or two off of our Alita w/ the airstones at or near the recirc pump intake.
There has got to be a way to take these well built skimmer bodies and turning them into amazing skimmers. I know that Energy has great results, but I truly attribute that to his skimmer having a 24" diameter (which I didn't have room for, both in our fish room and in our budget
).BTW, I also have one of his CA Rx and have been pretty happy w. it. There were some noise problems w/ the earlier designs (that we have), but there were also supposed to be some retrofit parts to make them more quiet (like the newer designs he made). Since I have stopped waiting for the retrofit parts, I need to dig back into my memory and try to recall how he described the design difference to make the changes myself. It had to do w/ how he recirculated the CO2. Anyways, that is another topic for another thread
.
jnarowe
New member
Tom,
Go ahead and call or PM me and maybe we can work out the Ca reactor issue. I am really not sure of what result you would get from "feeding" the recirc pump with bubbles. And again, I am not entirely convinced that teh bubbles need to be uniform and/or tiny. My skimmer will remove some large pieces and the joke around here is that it could skim out a chromis. :lol:
Go ahead and call or PM me and maybe we can work out the Ca reactor issue. I am really not sure of what result you would get from "feeding" the recirc pump with bubbles. And again, I am not entirely convinced that teh bubbles need to be uniform and/or tiny. My skimmer will remove some large pieces and the joke around here is that it could skim out a chromis. :lol:
saleencobra
Premium Member
OK I know this is not enough air but I lust want to see what will happen. I put 4 wood stones on the end of my alita 40 and shoved right down the middle of the skimmer. It is an 1875 and there is still a foot of water and skimmer below the stones but that is as far as they will go without removing the diffuser plate. It killed the foam head when I put the tubing in(maybe oil on the tubing). I will wait a while and see what happens. My first observation is that it seems very turbulent with only 4 stones.
Looking at Nanok's pic's, I seem to have about the same density, and bubble size with my skimmer. Skimate looks similar too. Maybe I have the proper air ratio tuned in.Have not done a mesh mod, but am running the custom needle wheel.Pic's are on page 1, I'll see if I can get some better ones.
which alita are you running and do you bleed any off ? Also, what do you have the gate valve set to on the recirc pump ?
Can you also measure the body length for me ? (I know that some, especially in the beginning, were of varying lengths, based on the acrylic tube stock that was available). I would like to compare all of your values against our skimmer to see if anything jumps out at me for why we don't have the same bubble density as you appear to.
I believe that you posted the answer to some of these questions previously, but it would help to have them all in one place/post here.
Thanks
Can you also measure the body length for me ? (I know that some, especially in the beginning, were of varying lengths, based on the acrylic tube stock that was available). I would like to compare all of your values against our skimmer to see if anything jumps out at me for why we don't have the same bubble density as you appear to.
I believe that you posted the answer to some of these questions previously, but it would help to have them all in one place/post here.
Thanks
Sparkss,
Box height 7"
The height from the base box to the flange is 5"
Top of bottom flange to the flange for the cone is 29"
Top of the body cone to neck flange, cone length, 8"
Neck is 8" diameter 13"
So does this make it an 1860?
I run the Alita 40 full open.
Gate valve is turned in a couple turns at least.Went to were I got around 108 on the Kil-a-watt, and opened it up to around 125-126. This seemed to make the best most stable foam and bubble density.
I run a Reeflo snapper wide open for the feed pump.
I adjust the outlet back to the sump for the desired foam height.
jnarowe-
Yes the neck gets dirty pretty quicly, needs to be cleaned once a week or more. I do forget to do this some times and it gets a really thick nasty sludge build up. I think Energy also said he gets alot of crud in the neck.
I did state earlier that I think the volute on the Dart was opened up some and I do run the custom carbon fiber wheeel from Scott. I don't know the exact number of pins on it off hand.
My results were about the same from the beginning, other than fine tuning things a little.
I'm guessing that others density was not as good.HTH's.
Todd
Box height 7"
The height from the base box to the flange is 5"
Top of bottom flange to the flange for the cone is 29"
Top of the body cone to neck flange, cone length, 8"
Neck is 8" diameter 13"
So does this make it an 1860?
I run the Alita 40 full open.
Gate valve is turned in a couple turns at least.Went to were I got around 108 on the Kil-a-watt, and opened it up to around 125-126. This seemed to make the best most stable foam and bubble density.
I run a Reeflo snapper wide open for the feed pump.
I adjust the outlet back to the sump for the desired foam height.
jnarowe-
Yes the neck gets dirty pretty quicly, needs to be cleaned once a week or more. I do forget to do this some times and it gets a really thick nasty sludge build up. I think Energy also said he gets alot of crud in the neck.
I did state earlier that I think the volute on the Dart was opened up some and I do run the custom carbon fiber wheeel from Scott. I don't know the exact number of pins on it off hand.
My results were about the same from the beginning, other than fine tuning things a little.
I'm guessing that others density was not as good.HTH's.
Todd
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