Volcano club
- Thread starter tom obrecht
- Start date
just thought i would show people this link:
http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1348
read the specs.
max skimmer height
VENTURI ONLY 36"
http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1348
read the specs.
max skimmer height
VENTURI ONLY 36"
cnaegler
New member
Ok, i'm curious... I'm thinking of DIYing a skimmer and i like the Volcanos design, however, i realize that theres an "air" problem with this design, possibly with the amount of head heighth they possess. So, what i'm contemplating is making the main body a cone shape, from the mixing body to the riser tube. I read, somewhere in this thread..i think posted by hahnmeister, that this design should effectively lower the water level in the main body, thereby also reducing the amount of head heigth. I'm just not sure what pump to run, possibly a laguna?
Anyone have any input on this? What would make a Volcano design better?
Anyone have any input on this? What would make a Volcano design better?
There seems to be ALOT of confusion by non-Volcano owners. And maybe even some on the part of the owner set.
There are what I would consider 2 classes of Volcanoes. The medium and the large. Scott would have likely split them up based on venturi pulled versus forced air. But basically the first "class" is up to 36" total height (IIRC, but to be honest I don't know because I don't have personal experience w/ the smaller ones). The second "class" being the larger ones that all require an alita 30 - 100, depending on their size.
I get a little frustrated when people trying to "reinvent" a "better Volcano" and don't take that into account. It is like tryuing to compare an F-150 and lump it together w/ a Focus just because they are both a Ford.
Please read up before posting trash talk about the skimmers and be sure to know which model you are talking about, as they all desgined, configured and perform differently. There is no way to compare an 1860 w/ a 2460 or even a 1460 (or whatevee the smaller ones are called.. I only have personal experience with the 1860s and up).
I strongly encourage anyone who has any suggestions to frame them with the specific model, or group of models (14s, 18s, 24s, etc) that you are talking about. Most all suggestions that would be relevant for one model I can almost guarantee would not be relevant for the others, or would already be implemented by design, simply based on each models requirements. IE: a new venture might be great for the 14s, and maybe even an 1836 (if there is such a one), but would be useless and even detrimental for an 1860 or higher (since they are all force fed w/ alitas). Any suggestion w/o the preface of the model is worthless and likely bypassed by anyone who actually owns a Volcano, unless they like wasting time and money on a mod just to see if the proposed change is even remotely relevant for their model skimmer.
On another note, I haven't see anything from Hahn or any other "experts", I really had hoped that they would continue to post in this thread and welcome their feedback adn suggestions, even if it is to try out some product/brand motor that they are biased towards. So long as it works I really don't care at this point
. So far all attempts of our own to "tune" our 1860 have come up short of what we "expect" from this skimmer. But I am far from giving up on it.
There are what I would consider 2 classes of Volcanoes. The medium and the large. Scott would have likely split them up based on venturi pulled versus forced air. But basically the first "class" is up to 36" total height (IIRC, but to be honest I don't know because I don't have personal experience w/ the smaller ones). The second "class" being the larger ones that all require an alita 30 - 100, depending on their size.
I get a little frustrated when people trying to "reinvent" a "better Volcano" and don't take that into account. It is like tryuing to compare an F-150 and lump it together w/ a Focus just because they are both a Ford.
Please read up before posting trash talk about the skimmers and be sure to know which model you are talking about, as they all desgined, configured and perform differently. There is no way to compare an 1860 w/ a 2460 or even a 1460 (or whatevee the smaller ones are called.. I only have personal experience with the 1860s and up).
I strongly encourage anyone who has any suggestions to frame them with the specific model, or group of models (14s, 18s, 24s, etc) that you are talking about. Most all suggestions that would be relevant for one model I can almost guarantee would not be relevant for the others, or would already be implemented by design, simply based on each models requirements. IE: a new venture might be great for the 14s, and maybe even an 1836 (if there is such a one), but would be useless and even detrimental for an 1860 or higher (since they are all force fed w/ alitas). Any suggestion w/o the preface of the model is worthless and likely bypassed by anyone who actually owns a Volcano, unless they like wasting time and money on a mod just to see if the proposed change is even remotely relevant for their model skimmer.
On another note, I haven't see anything from Hahn or any other "experts", I really had hoped that they would continue to post in this thread and welcome their feedback adn suggestions, even if it is to try out some product/brand motor that they are biased towards. So long as it works I really don't care at this point
. So far all attempts of our own to "tune" our 1860 have come up short of what we "expect" from this skimmer. But I am far from giving up on it.
Considering the fact that there are many satisfied Volcano users I think the problem with the rest is tuning problems.
Interestingly all the skimmer masters who are posting in this thread never recommended to decrease the water input to the recirculating pump to increase air intake. I guess they didnt know this tweak, maybe??
This is the most important tweak to increase the air input, air/water ratio.
Via the pump's water input valve, decrease the water intake, while venturi valve is full open and see what happens, there will be a tremendous increase in the air intake.
If the air is still not sufficient, it means you need a bigger pump or the right size alita.
With this tweak I dont think the smaller, shorter volcanos will ever need alita.
I am recommending this tuning method to all volcano owners who thinks they dont have enough air in their skimmers.
You can do this only with the skimmers that has a gate valve on the pump's input line. This is another thing that makes volcanos the most sophisticated skimmer out there. Excluding the optional wet neck ofcourse; funny and useless.
Interestingly all the skimmer masters who are posting in this thread never recommended to decrease the water input to the recirculating pump to increase air intake. I guess they didnt know this tweak, maybe??
This is the most important tweak to increase the air input, air/water ratio.
Via the pump's water input valve, decrease the water intake, while venturi valve is full open and see what happens, there will be a tremendous increase in the air intake.
If the air is still not sufficient, it means you need a bigger pump or the right size alita.
With this tweak I dont think the smaller, shorter volcanos will ever need alita.
I am recommending this tuning method to all volcano owners who thinks they dont have enough air in their skimmers.
You can do this only with the skimmers that has a gate valve on the pump's input line. This is another thing that makes volcanos the most sophisticated skimmer out there. Excluding the optional wet neck ofcourse; funny and useless.
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Reefaquariumnut
Premium Member
I bleed air, had max air, tweaked every valve including my input gate valve, tried a high water line and low water line, read and did tons of research and nothing came close to what the new skimmer is pulling out. Not even in the same ballpark. I have the 1860 with an alita 40. I am at a disconnect as to why you think the volcano is the best skimmer on the market...other than Stan's and maybe St. Judes the volcano has totally fell on its face...yes, some people are getting some skimmate but not nearly what they should be pulling out of a tank. I know of this first hand because my ORP has increased 100+ points in a week of the volcano being offline and nothing else changed.
in this instance it just regulates the air to water ratio by limiting the water mixing w/ the air hitting the NW. It is important to note that if you limit it too much you will end up cavitating the pump (IE: more air than water and the NW doesn't move water).
With a normal pump when you limit the input you leave nothing for the pump to spin against.. no water and just a vacuum to make up the volume difference (I would guess ?). With a NW pump (w/ a venturi or other air inlet) the air makes up the volume difference and helps to limit the impact on the pump. Now, that also comes w/ the caveat that too much air and the pump cacvitates, stops moving water and you basically have the pump "running dry". I am honestly not sure which is worse, a pump running truly dry (and running w/o any water to cool the wet end) or one cavitating (and possibly putting vibration pressure on the seals). But within limits, adjusting the water input to a NW is fine and expected.
One way to tune that has been referred to in this thread is to use a Kill-a-Watt meter. Putting the meter on the recirc pump and tuning the inlet valve down to around 105 W then backing it out to around 120 (if I remember those #s correctly, someone please correct me if I did mistate them) is a good way to "find the sweet spot" between the air and recirc pumps. I forget who posted that, may have been Volcano1, I don't recall, but it is a proven method to tune them. We used that method before we swapped our skimmer body out for a slightly shorter one (for space logistical reasons), and haven't gone back to try that again (but I admittedly really do need to before I explore any other more drastic methods).
asnatlas
Hey, how goes it these days ? Got water in a tank still ? Seems like alot of reefers are getting out of the hobby these days. I know that we came very close (even still). Hope you are doing well, it's been a while
With a normal pump when you limit the input you leave nothing for the pump to spin against.. no water and just a vacuum to make up the volume difference (I would guess ?). With a NW pump (w/ a venturi or other air inlet) the air makes up the volume difference and helps to limit the impact on the pump. Now, that also comes w/ the caveat that too much air and the pump cacvitates, stops moving water and you basically have the pump "running dry". I am honestly not sure which is worse, a pump running truly dry (and running w/o any water to cool the wet end) or one cavitating (and possibly putting vibration pressure on the seals). But within limits, adjusting the water input to a NW is fine and expected.
One way to tune that has been referred to in this thread is to use a Kill-a-Watt meter. Putting the meter on the recirc pump and tuning the inlet valve down to around 105 W then backing it out to around 120 (if I remember those #s correctly, someone please correct me if I did mistate them) is a good way to "find the sweet spot" between the air and recirc pumps. I forget who posted that, may have been Volcano1, I don't recall, but it is a proven method to tune them. We used that method before we swapped our skimmer body out for a slightly shorter one (for space logistical reasons), and haven't gone back to try that again (but I admittedly really do need to before I explore any other more drastic methods).
asnatlas
Hey, how goes it these days ? Got water in a tank still ? Seems like alot of reefers are getting out of the hobby these days. I know that we came very close (even still). Hope you are doing well, it's been a while
Venturis on the pumps input, force feeding venturis are also kind of restriction for the pumps input. Slightly decreasing the water input will just increase the performance of venturi. Try it you will see. That is how I am getting plenty of air in to my 6' skimmer without any problem.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13493532#post13493532 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
in this instance it just regulates the air to water ratio by limiting the water mixing w/ the air hitting the NW. It is important to note that if you limit it too much you will end up cavitating the pump (IE: more air than water and the NW doesn't move water).
With a normal pump when you limit the input you leave nothing for the pump to spin against.. no water and just a vacuum to make up the volume difference (I would guess ?). With a NW pump (w/ a venturi or other air inlet) the air makes up the volume difference and helps to limit the impact on the pump. Now, that also comes w/ the caveat that too much air and the pump cacvitates, stops moving water and you basically have the pump "running dry". I am honestly not sure which is worse, a pump running truly dry (and running w/o any water to cool the wet end) or one cavitating (and possibly putting vibration pressure on the seals). But within limits, adjusting the water input to a NW is fine and expected.
One way to tune that has been referred to in this thread is to use a Kill-a-Watt meter. Putting the meter on the recirc pump and tuning the inlet valve down to around 105 W then backing it out to around 120 (if I remember those #s correctly, someone please correct me if I did mistate them) is a good way to "find the sweet spot" between the air and recirc pumps. I forget who posted that, may have been Volcano1, I don't recall, but it is a proven method to tune them. We used that method before we swapped our skimmer body out for a slightly shorter one (for space logistical reasons), and haven't gone back to try that again (but I admittedly really do need to before I explore any other more drastic methods).
asnatlas
Hey, how goes it these days ? Got water in a tank still ? Seems like alot of reefers are getting out of the hobby these days. I know that we came very close (even still). Hope you are doing well, it's been a while
Just try it and lets talk again....
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I don't think that it is the "best skimmer on the market", but I do think that 1. It is the skimmer that I currently own, and owing to the current financial outlook will be the only one I own for the foreseeable future and 2. That is has untapped potential.
I suspect that more than a couple of other owners/posters in this thread feel that same way that I do, about at least one of those two aspects of it. For those reasons we are here trying to make the best of what we have and to get our skimmers working as optimally as possible (w/in a reasonable budget).
If the cost of retrofitting these ever comes close to what a new skimmer would cost, then yea, I would end up like you replacing the volcano w/ something else. But for right now I feel pretty confident that we can accomplish getting a performant skimmer out of these Volcanos w/o breaking the bank (again). But then again I am often overly optimistic
, but not to the point of naive how far back did you post your target wattage #s ? (from your last post I am assuming it was you that detailed your tuning w/ the kill-o-watt ?
And I do plan to tune it this way I just need to dig out the meter to do it with. So far I had been just trying to tune it "manually", and as you can see from my posts, not with much success
.Thanks
Reefaquariumnut
Premium Member
You may be hearing me yeniraki, but you are obviously not LISTENING. I did get my volcano to skim, but it was not the skimmate like I saw on stan's tank. I never even saw skimmate pictures from St. Judes so who knows on that one.
Secondly, do you have a volcano? You keep telling volcano ownerd to do this and that when it worked on yours...that's like saying to a ford owner this is how I tuned my chevy because you both have trucks...
Secondly, do you have a volcano? You keep telling volcano ownerd to do this and that when it worked on yours...that's like saying to a ford owner this is how I tuned my chevy because you both have trucks...
I am sorry but I dont have kill-o-watt or another watt meter. I also dont have an air meter. I am tuning manually too but the increase in the air intake is so obvious, you wont be needing any of those.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13493633#post13493633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
how far back did you post your target wattage #s ? (from your last post I am assuming it was you that detailed your tuning w/ the kill-o-watt ?
And I do plan to tune it this way I just need to dig out the meter to do it with. So far I had been just trying to tune it "manually", and as you can see from my posts, not with much success
Thanks
Glad that you are happy with your new skimmer.
I dont have a Volcano, but I made one for myself very similar to it. And basically skimmers use the same principals of physics.
I am using this tweak and having to much air that my skimmer's neck can take so that I have to decrease the air intake.
I am suggesting the other Volcano users to give it a try and post their results.
I am not here to fight with you. Why are you taking things so personal. There are other Volcano owners whom I want to help.
You are free to do what ever you wish, even get the third BK and later find out that multiple skimmers perform less than one, on the same system.
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