Want a tank like the pretty reef pictures? Here's how to start.

[Trybltrtle]

This was so helpful. My tank water parameters have been the best, most stable since I started, but I still feel like my tank hates me, lol. Maybe I just need to give it time.

Also, nitrates dropped like a rock when I removed everything but the carbon from it. Had no idea the filter was the problem until I cruised this forum for a bit.

 

[Sk8r]

Keep that water spot-on and you should see those corals either overgrow those plugs or smother them and begin to negotiate with each other for space in the sunlight. Once corals do start to grow, they can grow a lot faster than you'd think.

 

[Trybltrtle]

I hope so. I've had this tank going since August and just feel like I've been getting nowhere with it. Even my clowns live separated! Lol.

 

[smedlin]

WIth a 120 you likely will need a reactor once you have a big lot of stony coral.

The evaporation rate for a 55 should be about a gallon a day, which is why we have open sumps and/or open tops. Putting kalk into the topoff water means that a gallon of kalk laced water is being delivered to your tank every day thanks to evaporation and that kalk (calcium powder) can feed quite a lot of coral. Kalk is good up to about 70 gallons, and then you have to start thinking about a calcium reactor for a stony reef.

So, it's not REALLY evaporation itself.. it's the fact the ATO kicks in and replaces the lost water with new water doused with Kalk?

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Sooooo much what you said I learned the hard way.

when I first got my tank, 13 years ago, I tried some of the "O, this looks like a cool coral!".. and they would die. (We didn't have these spiffy forums back then to ask/learn).

I found out in time, I didn't have the correct lights for "complicated" corals. I had fish, but no skimmer..etc etc.

I really did find out what I could keep by the method of "O, lets try this thing". Usually it died.

What lived, is exactly the things you talked about as being "easy"... the softies..shrooms and stuff.

I'm in the process of upgrading the equipment (pretty much replacing everything but the tank and the stand.)

For a good laugh, read my attempt at doing so here... Smedlin's attempt to upgrade his tank.

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I'd like to learn more about "dosing with kalk" and "calcium reactors".

You talked about water quality and nutrients, etc.. but what about water temp? My tank seems to run a constant 82F. I hoping if I EVER finish my canopy and switch to LED's, it will lower the temp some.. but I'd still like to know more about how temp can affect corals.

 

[Hitch08]

This was so helpful. My tank water parameters have been the best, most stable since I started, but I still feel like my tank hates me, lol. Maybe I just need to give it time.

Also, nitrates dropped like a rock when I removed everything but the carbon from it. Had no idea the filter was the problem until I cruised this forum for a bit.

What did you remove from the filter?

 

[MJV0103]

Sk8r, I currently have zero room for a ATO res under my tank. I'm the ATO. I top off everyday after I get home from work. I've been reluctant to start any corals but after reading this, you got me interested in putting in a zoa or shroom in my 50g to see how it goes. I'm no where near 1 gal a day for evap though. I'm atleast half that.

 

[Sk8r]

Re what you remove from the filter to have a reef? All the media. Filters can manage some softie coral, at least the hardier ones, fine...but in general, they produce too much nitrate. Filters are for fish-onlies.

 

[Sk8r]

How to manage an ato with no room? If you have a closet nearby that you can devote to fish gear, that's one way. A basement below. (which is what I do.)
But there are other ways. A fake potted palm concealing an ato bucket. A garage-sale end table or armoire concealing same. A hole-bit in a power drill will do all you need toward getting a hose over to the tank and getting cords out. With a nice big 1960's-style armoire standing next to your tank, you could sneak a sump and fuge and ato and all sorts of gear in. A shelved table behind your couch next to your tank, with a flower arrangement on top, and a sump below. There are ways to make it look like Good Housekeeping while getting a bit more processing power for your tank.

 

[kissman]

Sk8r great thread Thanks! Here is my equipment for my 55g trying to keep SPS have some succes with some not with others. Let me know if you would change anything
55g
20g L sump
Mag Drive 3 return
2 Hydor Koralia 4's on Wavemaker 2sec (in DT) front wall
1 Hydor Nano 240 (in DT) back wall
1 Hydor 2 (in DT) back wall
Warner Marine MF181 Skimmer (same as Skimz SK181 diff bubble plate)
Reef Breeders Photon 48 LED's
Phosban Reactor Carbon
Finnex Digital 200w Heater

 

[Sk8r]

On a 55 I use 950 gallons an hour pump... Mag 9.5. A really good flow is helpful. The wavemakers are going to add oomph, but see if they add to about 1000 gph to 950. On my 105 I have two hydors at full bore with a 2000 gph pump restrained a bit with a valve so the water doesn't splash on my lights.

 

[kissman]

On a 55 I use 950 gallons an hour pump... Mag 9.5. A really good flow is helpful. The wavemakers are going to add oomph, but see if they add to about 1000 gph to 950. On my 105 I have two hydors at full bore with a 2000 gph pump restrained a bit with a valve so the water doesn't splash on my lights.

Thanks Sk8r! The two Hydor 4's are 1400gph each. I have them at half or 700gph each then have the hydor nano 240 full bore 240gph and a Hydor 2 which is 600 gph. So 2240gph flowing around tank and then the Mag Drive 3 which unfortunatly the way my over flows are any higher and I have to add additional overflow. I have two drains drilled in the back of the tank that have a 3/4" PVC elbow that allows the water to drain down. I won't have that when I build a new tank I promise you that. It really limits my filtration i think. I did have a Mag Drive 7 on the tank and had an additional overflow but the noise from the drains was loud. It is possible that by the end of the year if everything works out I will be upgrading to a 90g.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Thanks Sk8r! The two Hydor 4's are 1400gph each. I have them at half or 700gph each then have the hydor nano 240 full bore 240gph and a Hydor 2 which is 600 gph. So 2240gph flowing around tank and then the Mag Drive 3 which unfortunatly the way my over flows are any higher and I have to add additional overflow. I have two drains drilled in the back of the tank that have a 3/4" PVC elbow that allows the water to drain down. I won't have that when I build a new tank I promise you that. It really limits my filtration i think. I did have a Mag Drive 7 on the tank and had an additional overflow but the noise from the drains was loud. It is possible that by the end of the year if everything works out I will be upgrading to a 90g.

I wouldn't worry about not having enough flow over your overflows and through your sump. What's important is lots of in-tank circulation (at least for SPS corals; LPS and softies may require lower flows to avoid getting blasted), and that you circulate enough water through your sump so that your heater is able to maintain a relatively constant tank temperature, and a reasonable amount of dirty tank water is provided to your skimmer.

That's where the recommendation of 3X - 5X of the tank's volume being turned over through the sump comes from - it's enough to keep the tank temp constant in most room temperature situations, and allows the skimmer and/or media reactors to process enough water to keep the tank's water chemistry about the same as what's flowing through the sump.

There are preferences when it comes to this - in the olden days (25 years ago) before the advent of inexpensive, highly efficient propeller pumps, and efficient needle-wheel skimmers, we tended to run 10X - 15X or even 20X the DT's volume through the sump. That's because a substantial amount of the main tank's circulation came from the return pump. Also, skimmers of the day were either air-stone powered, or venturi types. Venturi skimmers require very high flow velocity to achieve an efficient air draw - needle-wheel skimmers with their own pump and modern designs are far, far more efficient than even the best venturi-style skimmer from days gone by.

 

[dkeller_nc]

A thought about ATOs. There are many different competing brands out there, and you can even rig a DIY system with a couple of float switches/valves.

What I'd suggest for a new reefer is not to consider this an optional piece of equipment. It's very true that if you're absolutely diligent about adding make-up water to a drip jug every single day and constantly checking levels and specific gravity, then you can successfully keep corals. I did it for 15+ years in multiple tanks.

But keeping up with this is a real drag, and forgetting about it for 2 or 3 days may have disastrous consequences for your corals if you've a relatively high evaporation rate. It also means you can't leave town for a long weekend without entrusting your reef to the care of (possibly) an inexperienced person.

I'll go on record saying that the $200 you spend on a Tunze Universal Osmolator will be one of the best investments you can make as a budding reefer; they're bullet proof and have multiple safeties to prevent an over-fill or your tank and will warn you with an alarm when the ATO reservoir is out of water. There's no doubt that it hurts to spend $200 when you've a long list of expensive items to purchase for a basic reef tank, but I've yet to hear someone say that they regretted spending the money on one of these.

Other brands/systems are less expensive, but not a whole lot less so (perhaps $50 less when the top-off pump is included), and aren't as proven as the Tunze. A DIY float-valve based system can be constructed for as little as $75 or so, but if you go this route, be aware that you need to diligently monitor it - float valves, in particular, are very susceptible to getting jammed in the "on" position by debris, algae, snails, etc...

 

[kissman]

I wouldn't worry about not having enough flow over your overflows and through your sump. What's important is lots of in-tank circulation (at least for SPS corals; LPS and softies may require lower flows to avoid getting blasted), and that you circulate enough water through your sump so that your heater is able to maintain a relatively constant tank temperature, and a reasonable amount of dirty tank water is provided to your skimmer.

That's where the recommendation of 3X - 5X of the tank's volume being turned over through the sump comes from - it's enough to keep the tank temp constant in most room temperature situations, and allows the skimmer and/or media reactors to process enough water to keep the tank's water chemistry about the same as what's flowing through the sump.

There are preferences when it comes to this - in the olden days (25 years ago) before the advent of inexpensive, highly efficient propeller pumps, and efficient needle-wheel skimmers, we tended to run 10X - 15X or even 20X the DT's volume through the sump. That's because a substantial amount of the main tank's circulation came from the return pump. Also, skimmers of the day were either air-stone powered, or venturi types. Venturi skimmers require very high flow velocity to achieve an efficient air draw - needle-wheel skimmers with their own pump and modern designs are far, far more efficient than even the best venturi-style skimmer from days gone by.

My first skimmer was a TurboFloater T1000 Venturi Skimmer that had a needle wheel for improvemnt but still what a piece of junk compared to my WM MF181!

 

[Trybltrtle]

Re: my filter, my filter had two sponge comparments, a compartment with ceramic marbles, and a carbon compartment. The sponges and ceramic marbles create homes for the bacteria which turn nitrite into nitrate, but not for the kind which digest nitrate. You need to keep those two systems close, so one feeds into the other. By separating one in the filter and one in the sand bed, it slows the process, thus high nitrates. Remove the media and both systems reside in your LR and sand bed, making the cycle more efficient, so lower nitrates. At least that's what I've read here!

 

[LeRenard]

I've got cyano out the wazoo that must water changes aren't making a dent in. But, 1) I have my lights running a 30 minute ramp up, 11 hours on, 30 minute ramp down to 10% actinics which stay on for two hours as night lights. Should I cut this back? You said 8 hours but my book insists on 12. I've noticed my zoas stay open in the night lights.

Also, I have no bristle worms that I can find.. Just nerite, turbo, and trochus snails and 8 hermits or so. Should I add some worms to my DT sand bed? I've not been able to keep nessarius snails alive for some reason :/

 

[Sk8r]

You can go 10 daylight, 1 hour before and 1 after as actinic. Depends on what your corals are happy and growing with.

Be sure your lights aren't expired: old lights will bring on cyano outbreaks. And a 3 day a month lights-out (ie, ambient light only) emulates weather on the reef, and can do in cyano, with zealous water changes immediately after lights out and also a decent (doesn't have to be killer) skimmer. Also be patient: cyano just happens in newish tanks and may pop up in some seasons, then go away.

 

[Sk8r]

Bristle worms: I've read one article that says that the worms aid sps corals by breaking down food bits, but I wouldn't say one way or another on that. What they really excel at is getting into the crevices and holes of the rock to keep that clean. They're really good at adjusting their numbers to match the problem, then quietly dying back to the new reality. And they work cheap.

 

[smedlin]

Sk8r,

How does temp affect corals?

I keep reading how people try to keep their tanks at 78 or 79.

My tank tends to stay around 82. It doesn't seem to bother the few easy corals I have.. shrooms and stuff.

I'm hoping that when I finish my attempt to modernize my tank, I'll be able to bring the temp down with some fans. I'd prefer not to buy a chiller to handle a 150G tank. Ugh.

Is it more important to have a constant temp? As in no variations?

.

 

[Sk8r]

The only wisdom I can offer is that corals don't like change---and that the territory you really don't want to hit is 85. There's a lot less upward wiggle room than there is lower: falling ten degrees below 80---to 70---isn't going to hurt most tanks, but rising 5 degrees past 80 is entering lethal territory, in the simple physics of the fact hot water doesn't carry as much oxygen as cold, and that light, in the presence of 85 degree heat, just seems to be a tiny push too far. If you ever do find the temperature spiralling upward, immediately turn out the lights and turn fans on the water. [Note: STAYING at 70 would not be good! Corals prefer it warmer, and life processes run faster when a bit warmer.]

I've had decent growth of euphyllias at 80, but I run metal halide lights, so balancing the swing is a little harder, day to night. The less swing the better, and every tank seems to find an equilibrium eventually. I'm wishing mine was a degree lower, about 79, just for safety's sake if nothing else, but the corals thus far don't mind. Understand that my tank is primarily euphyllia (torch, hammer, frog).