Water Quality Issues

L

Lifwilend

New member
Hi,

I am not new to the hobby, but i might as well be. I have a 72 gallon bowfront tank (Oceanic) and it has been set up for three years. I have about half the tank filled with live rock and about 2-3'' of aragonite sand, a 20 gallon sump, a uv sterilizer, EuroReef skimmer and 3 power heads for circulation. Oh i also had a power compact lamp which crapped out on me and i replaced it temporarily with floresant lamps from my old fish only aquarium. At this point I only have 3 fish, a Seargent Major Damsel, 1 Bi-Color Blenny and a Blue Devil Damsel. I had a bubble coral some Zooanthids, feather duster worms.... In short I had quite a few animals in my tank and as time had gone on I just got very discouraged with everything being very healthy at the start and then declining. I realize the current lighting set up is not good for keeping anything else but fish. So I purchased a Coralife Aqualite Pro with moon lights and still have to set it up. I realize this will probably help things.

Now, The issue with the water. Ever since I started 3 years ago I have never been able to get my water parameters correct. I usually have a reading of 8.0-8.3 PH. 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and a staggering 50+ Nitrate reading. Phosphates come in at about 0.25 , Alkalinity as ALK-DKH 6.4 ALK 2.284, Calcium i stopped checking because at this point I am quite frustrated. I can never get my nitrates calcium or alk in check. My water temp is around 80 degrees (it could be a bit lower so i bought a chiller which i need to set up). My salt reading is at 1.023. I am basically willing to start from scratch to solve whatever issues i can. I must say I had let a good bit of time go by in between water changes. sometimes as much as six months. If course I added make up water as needed do to evaporation. When i slowed down on the water changes it seemed like fish were doing much better then when i did it monthly. As far as the rest of my corals etc. well lets just say thier history. (this is not something i take very lightly) I really want to do this right.

One more thing, I don't use any additives except Kent Super Buffer and a local fish store recommended Amquel water conditioner which i Just added after my water change a few days ago. I used to use additives and got away from it because i thought they were adding to the problems but since i stopped the water parameters have always been the same.

I have been considering a refugium a calcium reactor a plenum system and anything else that would solve these problems.

Can someone help me?

Thanks

Bill:(
 
water changes will definately help with the nitrate. IMO you definately want to keep up with them I do 40 gallons every 2-3 weeks. you mention a euroreef skimmer is it producing skimmate? That will also help export before waste gets turned into nitrates. The only additives I would worry about are those that will keep your calcium and Alk levels proper. Of the things you would like to add to the tank the plenum is the only that will help with nitrates. I run one remotely in my sump. What do you feed your fish and how much how often. In most cases this is the largest contributor to the problems you are having. Your phosphates are high so I supspect you may be overfeeding.
 
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

I was in a similar situation to yours when I bought my setup as an established tank from a coworker, except on top of the nitrates and phosphates out of control, my fish came with ich.

First off, are you using tap water or RO? Either way, I would test your source water before adding anything and find out if it could be adding to your problem. Your corals and other inverts will fare better at a slightly higher salinity, 1.026 is closer to natural sea water.

As for the phosphates, they are easily removed with a phosphate-binding media. Phosban took mine down from off the charts to undetectible within a few weeks.

I am still battling my nitrates. I found that even daily water changes were not helping. If you have bioballs or other biological filtration media in use, you're better off slowly removing them. Your live rock should be able to handle the biological filtration for the most part. Also, how much flow do your powerheads plus your return total to? You skimmer is going to be useless if all the detritus in your tank sits in or under your rock and rots. Increasing the flow will blast that stuff out and get it into your overflow so your skimmer can go to work on it. Using a turkey baster regularly to blast out the rocks can also help. Also, make sure you aren't feeding too much. I feed my tank every other day now, and sparingly. As you mentioned a refugium, installing one with macroalgae would also help bring down your nitrates.

With a shallow sand bed (like yours), I opted to install a remote deep sand bed (link) to help with denitrification. If your sand bed is full of detritus, try siphoning it some, or replacing it altogether. If you feel that you just want to start new, and that your live rock is also loaded with detritus and other nasties, you may consider "cooking" your rock. There is lots of info about this in the Reef Discussion forum here.

Despite all my nutrient issues, all of my current fish and corals are doing very well. They're all growing and behaving normally, even with nitrates sometimes in the triple digets at first, so I wonder if your invert problems were not nutrient related? Either way, if you can work through the water quality issues at least you can rule them out as a cause.

Good luck!
 
Hi Bill. There are several issues that could be addressed. I'm no expert by any means, so I'll only offer up a few simple suggestions. I'd stop making so many changes (chiller, Ca reactor, plenum) and instead work towards getting your water chemistry stable.

1. I'd raise and maintain the SG to 1.025-1.026.
2. You already know this, but six months between water changes is simply too long. I'd do a 40-50% water change now and 30% every two weeks for at least a couple months.
3. Do you use RO water?
4. You don't have a ton of corals. Instead of adding a Ca reactor, regular water changes might be enough.
5. Ca and Alk work hand in hand. I wouldn't keep adding super buffer without checking Ca. Again, water changes first.
6. If your ammonia tests zero, I wouldn't add Amqel. This can affect your pH.
7. 80 degree temp isn't bad ...as long as it's stable. IMO you probably don't need a chiller either.

Well that's my 2 cents worth. Bascially some salt, testing, time, and TLC.
 
I think you will need to choose a calcium supplementation method. For the short term, you could buy some B-Ionic. It'll probably be expensive over the long haul, but it'll get you started. You'll be adding supplement every day for that size tank, I'd guess. This article talks about a lot of methods:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

I mostly agree with the previous post, and would add that I target 82 as the temperature for my tank. 80 actually sounds a tad chilly. :) I'd also limit water changes to 25% or so at a time.

Some SG devices are inaccurate, so this article might be useful:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

I would raise the SG no more than 0.001 units every other day or so. After the SG, calcium, and alkalinity are in line, the tank might work towards a better steady state, slowly.
 
First, I would slowly raise the SG to 1.025-1.026. Then I would do a large water change (about 50%) using high quality salt. Once that is done, work on the calcium and alk. Randy's 2 part recipe is an excellent way to do this and quite cheap. Once your parameters are in check, I would look into dripping limewater for your topoff. This will help you maintain the calcium, alk, and pH. I use pickling lime since it's rather inexpensive.

Definately use RO/DI water. If you don't have a unit, seriously look into getting one. I use a Typhoon III, but there are low cost alternatives which may be just fine for you.

Adding a fuge of some sort with macro algae will help get the nitrates under control. Let us know how things turn out.
 
A refugium is a fine idea to try, but I think getting the basic parameters under control first is a good idea.
 
Ok, this past weekend I did a water change of about 15 gallons. I used tap water for the water change. All the tests i listed in my original thread were done after this water change. When should i consider doing the next water change. Oh, I also removed some sand. The sand that is in the tank has been in there since last year, probably sometime between January and March. After reading your replies i am considering changing some more water this coming weekend. Maybe i should remove all of the existing sand and replace it with new???

What do you think?
 
I haven't reconnected my RO-Di system yet as a result of construction in my house. So can i use distilled water? I was told when I started 3 years ago I could use distilled water. Also, I recently picked up a 5 gallon container of natural sea water at petco. I was told this becoming very popular among hobbists.
 
Replacing the sand might help. If it's looking ugly, I'd say go ahead and ditch it.

Distilled water can be okay. Some of the samples I tested weren't great, but acceptable, and much better than most any tapwater. The natural sea water is fine, but expensive.
 
Is there a specific water test kit for RO-Di water to see if its working properly? If not what tests should i do?

How should I test distilled water and what tests should I do. Is there anything specific to look for?
 
they are about 20-25 bucks very nice to have as it gives you a reading on exactly what is coming out of the filter.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6594970#post6594970 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pandora
You'll need a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. Ideally should read 0 out of your unit.
Click to expand...
Don't forget to get a Chlorine/Chloramine test kit too, in case of a chlorine leak, very small amount of chlorine is very harmful to fish and TDS meter might not be sensitive enough to pick it up.
 
I am far from an expert reefer, but I have been told to be careful when disturbing the deeper layers of your sandbed. The anaerobic bacteria living there will release toxins (ammonia?). If you were planning on changing your sandbed, you may want to get opinions on how to safely do this. Anyone?

As far as a chlorine test kit, wouldn't letting the water sit for a few days get rid of chlorine without the need to test it?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6595530#post6595530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Holmie_D_Klown
As far as a chlorine test kit, wouldn't letting the water sit for a few days get rid of chlorine without the need to test it?
Click to expand...
Chlorine yes, but not chloramines which will stay in the water (if it exist) for a week or longer.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6595626#post6595626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dchao
Chlorine yes, but not chloramines which will stay in the water (if it exist) for a week or longer.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info dchao:rollface:
 
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