Weeds

[Michael Hoaster]

It is one of the many different strategies to combat dinoflagellates. It works for some, but not all. I thought I'd give it a try.

Here's an article:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Another algae export today. I want the grass to have full light access. The dinos come back fast. I think I'm wearing them down, with UV and manual removal. I'm adding macros for competition, and snails and pods to eat them.

Live rock will be added soon. At that point I'd like to have the main pump running. So I need to figure out if I can get it going again. I need to get that done.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Today I did another algae clean on the grasses. I also pulled my Dart Gold pump to se if I could get it running again, and I did! So now I have the option of dialing up the current. I wanted to have that in place before getting live rock. I'm very excited to add that facet that's missing right now. It'll have a huge effect on the whole system. I'll wait for the live rock, then turn on the pump.

More pieces of the puzzle.

 

[lapin]

Another algae export today. I want the grass to have full light access. The dinos come back fast. I think I'm wearing them down, with UV and manual removal. I'm adding macros for competition, and snails and pods to eat them.

Live rock will be added soon. At that point I'd like to have the main pump running. So I need to figure out if I can get it going again. I need to get that done.

Sounds like the dino's need to pack up and leave town. The sheriff is not going anywhere. It will interesting to see how new flow effects the plants.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks lapin!

Yeah, I think I'm making some progress with the dinos. I'm trying different methods to see which mine respond to. It really is mind-blowing how many sometimes opposite methods are suggested to combat this not-quite-algae. Apparently there are over a thousand species of dinoflagellates.

I don't know for sure, but I am guessing these are the same dinos I had in v1. They show several similarities. I found that UV was effective, so I'm expecting similar success.

When I start up the circulation pump, I expect the plants will be a little more happy and the algae, a little less. The biggest change will happen to the sand bar. I think it will be reshaped pretty significantly. That's one of the reasons I'd like to get the live rock in before I turn on the pump. I'm hoping it will help hold the shape of the bar, to some extent. I'm looking forward to it!

 

[lifeoffaith]

How much live rock do you plan to add? I've enjoyed the minimalist look of your tank, but I agree it could use a little more depth with some added live rock.

 

[vlangel]

Please take a video of the return pump going along with the wave maker. I want to enjoy the hypnotic sound and motion of the waves!

 

[Chasmodes]

Glad the pump is working!

If you had to rank the most effective methods of your experience with fighting the dinos, how would your rank them?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks lifeoffaith! I like the minimal look too.

Right now, I only have ten pounds of dead rock, that was live rock in v1. My plan is to add only another ten pounds of live rock, mainly to add diversity and sponges. I will put the new stuff on top of the old stuff, so it will remain pretty low and minimal.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Hey Dawn! Sorry I haven't posted any vids yet. I promise I will! My wife tells me almost everyday how much she loves the rhythmic sounds of the waves.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Kevin! It's a huge relief to get that pump running again. There were about fifty snails in there!

Good question, on the dino methods. so far, UV seems to be the most effective, along with manual removal. But it's heartbreaking to see it come back the next day. I think that's what really demoralizes people. It's hard enough removing it. For it to come right back is a slap in the face.

My strategy at this point is to try different things and see what works, and wear it down. Then, when I feel like it's the right time, I'll do a full-on dino-massacre, combining several methods, including a three day blackout and two large water changes.

I am seeing signs of a slow-down, so we're on track.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Another seagrass algae cleaning today. I'm doing them every other day. I can tell for sure the dinos are weakening. The grasses weren't as coated as they have been. That's good!

This is not a quick setup. It will take some time to develop. When you have a specific plan, time is secondary. I could hurry things along, but I'm particular about what goes in. This time of year, the selection of macros for sale is limited. So, I plan next acquisitions and wait.

In v1, I planted a lot of macros at the same time as the grasses. The macros grew faster. I often wondered if it would have been better to have planted only the grasses, at first, to give them more focus (and nutrients). This time, I have more grasses and few macros. The grasses are growing faster. I'm very happy about that, but I wish I had a few more macros to compete with algae. Using ulva has worked well, both for nutrient uptake and shading. The two tiny red macros I have are no help at this point. The two reds from eBay didn't make it.

My second addition of pods should arrive Tuesday. They will be valuable crew members and a key food chain player. There are a few more detrivores and herbivores to add and then live rock. Lots more to come…

 

[vlangel]

I love your methodical approach this time around. I can really see where your experience in v1 has helped give you the patience and perseverance you need to see past the ugly stages to the vision beyond. Kudos to you, Michael.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

It's funny, I was thinking the same thing, Dawn! Having gone through all this before, I'm just not worried. I keep doing what I know I need to do, and I know it will work out fine.

I really like my vision for this tank. I've addressed all the issues that bugged me from v1, and I have a clear vision of what I want. I look forward to 'getting there' but I want to enjoy the journey (or the puzzle) and build a stable ecosystem that looks as good as it functions.

I appreciate the encouragement, Dawn!

 

[vlangel]

It's funny, I was thinking the same thing, Dawn! Having gone through all this before, I'm just not worried. I keep doing what I know I need to do, and I know it will work out fine.

I really like my vision for this tank. I've addressed all the issues that bugged me from v1, and I have a clear vision of what I want. I look forward to 'getting there' but I want to enjoy the journey (or the puzzle) and build a stable ecosystem that looks as good as it functions.

I appreciate the encouragement, Dawn!

You are welcome. I am enjoying the journey as well so thank you for documenting it for the rest of us.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

My pleasure!

I'll climb out of this ugly phase at some point. I've got more pods, plants and snails coming. I thought I'd get the pods today, instead they shipped today.

With algae starting to wane, the time is right to get some more macros in, to replace it. More nerite and mini cerith snails should help with algae consumption.

I like this part. Adding more puzzle pieces. Building an ecosystem!

 

[Chasmodes]

Thank you for explaining your approach in dealing with the dinos...much to think about and remember. I probably should invest in a UV unit for the big tank. I'm not going to worry about the dinos in my current tank just yet, but maybe I'll try the blackout thing. I guess you still feed the fish, right, then cover up again?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Kevin. I wish my approach to dinos was helpful to everyone who has them, but there is so much variation in what works. It really depends on which dinos you get! And I am far from an expert! I'm more of a simpleton. I love simplicity and simple solutions.

I just read a bunch of articles and threads first. Then I wrote down things to try, and tried them. This helped me narrow down what was effective for me (and my dinos).

I used my experience to 'filter out' a lot of stuff that just didn't make sense to me. For example, some say that low nitrates fuel their growth. My experience tells me the opposite. Both of my dino outbreaks followed my own ill-advised dosing of ammonia. My dinos did not flourish in nutrient-poor conditions. For people to believe that dinos were caused by zero nitrates and phosphates is a bit of a stretch! When this happens with other algae, we conclude that the nitrates and phosphates are all bound-up in the algae. Why don't we reach the same conclusion with dinos?

Dinos are not aliens. They don't require us to do the opposite of every other algae cure. Though technically, dinoflagellates and cyano are not quite algae, for our purposes, they're just another algae. Sure, they're a tough one to crack, but there's no need to try outlandish methods that fly in the face of conventional wisdom.

One of the better articles I read had the author trying a multitude of chemicals and techniques, without success. It was only after he started using natural methods that he won the battle. He increased competition with added macros, and he increased predation with pods and snails. That's right up my alley!

Now, if you have the kind that kills snails and fish, there are other methods that work. Maybe someday someone will come up with a dino calculator, where you input your symptoms and it suggests solutions. For now, it's a bit of a maze, with many possible solutions and contradictions.

You can feed your fish during blackouts. You can choose to not feed. I generally don't. Three days without food shouldn't be a problem for fish, and withholding those nutrients helps in the fight.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Yesterday, I removed some dinos, cyano, and ulva from the back wall, but not the grasses, which weren't too coated. This produced a rather large export. My shipment of 1000 pods came and I added a small, red macro I found at my LFS as well. I ordered a few more macros and snails from GCE too. More puzzle pieces.

I've been re-reading my old thread. It's particularly interesting to read posts at around the 2-6 month mark. They sound eerily similar to what I'm posting now. Even the puzzle metaphor gets tossed around! I had a brutal cyanobacteria infestation that I struggled with for three months, before finally giving in and using Chemiclean. I combined that with blackouts, manual removal and water changes, and I still wasn't completely out of the woods.

Also in that time frame, I added the reproducing mini strombus snails. I only started with around eight or ten of them, so it took months for them to reproduce to the point that they made a difference. But they did make a difference! I now believe that they were likely the key puzzle piece in my battle with algae. Still, they were only one piece. I added pods, live sand, live mud and live rock soon thereafter.

I'm hoping that this time around, with more players in place, earlier in the process of maturation, maybe I'll get out of Algaetown a bit sooner this time. Supplying the newly-forming ecosystem with diversity, and then stepping back, letting Nature work her magic, seems to be the right course of action.

It would be an interesting experiment to set up two identical tanks, with identical herbivore and detrivore additions. One tank (A) gets all the aquarist's attention, with algae removal etcetera, and the other (B) gets none. How would they differ after one year? I suspect they wouldn't be very different! Sure, tank A would look better after maintenance days, in the interim, but after one year, I believe Nature's influence would be greater than a year's worth of 'aquarium work'. This reenforces my belief that no matter what methods we choose as aquarists, if we are patient enough, Nature makes it work. I can think of no other explanation for so many different methods producing successful aquariums. Miraculous!

 

[vlangel]

Yesterday, I removed some dinos, cyano, and ulva from the back wall, but not the grasses, which weren't too coated. This produced a rather large export. My shipment of 1000 pods came and I added a small, red macro I found at my LFS as well. I ordered a few more macros and snails from GCE too. More puzzle pieces.

I've been re-reading my old thread. It's particularly interesting to read posts at around the 2-6 month mark. They sound eerily similar to what I'm posting now. Even the puzzle metaphor gets tossed around! I had a brutal cyanobacteria infestation that I struggled with for three months, before finally giving in and using Chemiclean. I combined that with blackouts, manual removal and water changes, and I still wasn't completely out of the woods.

Also in that time frame, I added the reproducing mini strombus snails. I only started with around eight or ten of them, so it took months for them to reproduce to the point that they made a difference. But they did make a difference! I now believe that they were likely the key puzzle piece in my battle with algae. Still, they were only one piece. I added pods, live sand, live mud and live rock soon thereafter.

I'm hoping that this time around, with more players in place, earlier in the process of maturation, maybe I'll get out of Algaetown a bit sooner this time. Supplying the newly-forming ecosystem with diversity, and then stepping back, letting Nature work her magic, seems to be the right course of action.

It would be an interesting experiment to set up two identical tanks, with identical herbivore and detrivore additions. One tank (A) gets all the aquarist's attention, with algae removal etcetera, and the other (B) gets none. How would they differ after one year? I suspect they wouldn't be very different! Sure, tank A would look better after maintenance days, in the interim, but after one year, I believe Nature's influence would be greater than a year's worth of 'aquarium work'. This reenforces my belief that no matter what methods we choose as aquarists, if we are patient enough, Nature makes it work. I can think of no other explanation for so many different methods producing successful aquariums. Miraculous!

Wow, that is an interesting thought Michael about setting up 2 identical aquariums. I have always been of the assumption that that scenerio would be like 2 identical gardens...and at the end one garden would be beautiful and the other would be a weed patch. Maybe not however, its interesting to ponder.

I think you are correct however that v2 may go thru Algaetown a bit faster with more puzzle pieces in place earlier. Ahh, nothing like experience to help smooth the way as you go along.