Weeds

[Michael Hoaster]

I've been looking at dart fish lately, focusing mostly on the zebra dart fish, which are natural schoolers. In my opinion, you can really see a difference between fish that form loose groups and true schoolers. They seem to exhibit a need to school. I saw it in the Lookdowns. I'd love to display natural schooling behavior. The vertical bars on the Zebra's sides would likely go well with the grasses too.

Choosing these timid fish would take me in a more placid community direction, so damsels likely wouldn't work. It puts a fork in the road, for fish stocking. It also highlights the need to plan ahead. If I do choose to go the dart fish route, I'll need to fill in the rest of the community differently.

Right now, I have a damsel/semi-aggro fish list figured out. Fleshing out a uber-peaceful community that would work with the darts gives me a whole other direction to look at.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Kevin and Dawn!

If I do go the chemiclean route, I'll manually remove algae first, then chemiclean, then blackout, then water change.

Yes, Kevin, once you get your big tank and lights going, you'll have much better luck with plants. That must've been some vacation! Ten days sick, yuck! I'm laid up myself right now, after clipping a stump on my snowboard Saturday. It's the price we pay for playing hard…

 

[McPuff]

Thanks Kevin and Dawn!

If I do go the chemiclean route, I'll manually remove algae first, then chemiclean, then blackout, then water change.

Yes, Kevin, once you get your big tank and lights going, you'll have much better luck with plants. That must've been some vacation! Ten days sick, yuck! I'm laid up myself right now, after clipping a stump on my snowboard Saturday. It's the price we pay for playing hard"¦

Michael, if you use chemiclean there is no need for blackout. It's smart to manually remove what you can, first, then treat. After 2 days, add some carbon as it will REALLY help to get things back to normal. Since you don't use a skimmer (right?) you won't need to worry about the excessive foaming the chemiclean causes. A water change will also be helpful but it doesn't have to be massive. 10-20% along with the carbon.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for the input, McPuff! Yep, I'm still skimmer-free. I'm not going the chemiclean route just yet, but I'm willing!

I have found that combining strategies is more effective than doing one at a time. Also, I'm fighting two foes - cyano and dinos. Whether this combo works is anybody's guess. It would be great to get out of this phase without resorting to chemiclean. We'll see how this one goes, and if needed, I'll bite the bullet.

Good call on the charcoal! I put fresh stuff in my canister a few weeks ago. I'll repeat that at the end of this combo, and again, if I do chemiclean.

I just went back and re-read (some of) my old thread, to see how things progressed at this phase of the old tank. Water changes and export helped and chemiclean was maybe the knockout blow. My macros took off at about the same time, so I'm sure that was a factor as well. This time around I'm relying less on water changes and more on manual removal. It just makes sense that you're getting a much more concentrated source of nutrients in the algae, rather than the water. So it's a more focused and efficient process.

We'll see how big the water change ends up being. It now looks like my live rock will be here tomorrow, so I'm running out of time to save up ro/di water. Given the fact that I initially filled the tank with my unfiltered well water, I think a big water change could be helpful. I'll be lucky to get to 20% though.

I haven't peeked into the tank during the blackout, so I don't know how well it's working. I wrapped it with craft paper to really seal out the light. My guess is that most of the algae will be gone. How much and how quickly it comes back is the big question.

I think this could be a crucial time. Here's the sequence again: big algae removal, blackout, big water change. Next, I'll add ten pounds of uncured live rock and replant all the macros I have. The rock will be a nutrient source at first, and hopefully, will fuel macro growth. If so, it may outcompete any algae trying to return. Will it work? I don't know. I wish I had another fast growing macro to help, but I'll make do with what I have.

So I'm basically doing what I did last time in Algaetown. Again I'm holding off on chemiclean, but ready to use it if needed. The biggest difference between this time and last, is that I've got a much more diverse crew in place. Will that make the difference?

 

[Chasmodes]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck!

I'm definitely paying attention to your progress here. I have similar problems. But, my not purchasing macros is because I'm cheap and wish to collect my own, and it's to daggone cold to go collecting right now. We have CO weather today!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Kevin!

I'm anxious to get the lights back on and see what it looks like today. Lots more to come!

 

[lapin]

Sounds like a man with a plan
With any luck the live rock will come with some bacteria to finish off your problem algae and cyano.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks lapin! It's funny, even with a plan, I still felt like a bumbling idiot. It must be the change of routine. The big combo is a lot of work too. I'm pooped!

My 10 pounds of live rock arrived today. I saw sponges, corals, mussels and macros. A huge injection of diversity! I ended the blackout, which went three and a half days. I unpacked the rocks and popped them in the QT temporarily.

I unwrapped the tank and turned on the light. It looked so clean! After thorough inspection, I found a few small patches of cyano. I manually removed what I could before I did the water change. 30 gallons, roughly 20%. Then the rocks went in the display, uncured, basically on top of the old rocks. The macros went back in too, but I couldn't quite muster the gumption to take them out of the mesh bag and plant them. I'll leave that until tomorrow. I'm not satisfied with the rock placement yet. I have a feeling I've got a fair bit of tinkering to do with it. I want it to blend into the sand bar better, like a mini patch reef.

I turned on the main pump for a while, but turned it back off at lights out. With a lot more water moving through the system, the added noise was noticeable. I may put it on a timer, so it shuts off with the lights. I'm also still playing with the flow rate.

A good day of progress. Next, some fine tuning. Get the macros placed, and wait to see if the algae comes back. I imagine it will. We're at three months. It took me six to get out of Cyano City, in v1. I'm hoping I'm ahead of schedule this time!

I'm also curious to see what comes out of the live rock…

 

[vlangel]

Thanks lapin! It's funny, even with a plan, I still felt like a bumbling idiot. It must be the change of routine. The big combo is a lot of work too. I'm pooped!

My 10 pounds of live rock arrived today. I saw sponges, corals, mussels and macros. A huge injection of diversity! I ended the blackout, which went three and a half days. I unpacked the rocks and popped them in the QT temporarily.

I unwrapped the tank and turned on the light. It looked so clean! After thorough inspection, I found a few small patches of cyano. I manually removed what I could before I did the water change. 30 gallons, roughly 20%. Then the rocks went in the display, uncured, basically on top of the old rocks. The macros went back in too, but I couldn't quite muster the gumption to take them out of the mesh bag and plant them. I'll leave that until tomorrow. I'm not satisfied with the rock placement yet. I have a feeling I've got a fair bit of tinkering to do with it. I want it to blend into the sand bar better, like a mini patch reef.

I turned on the main pump for a while, but turned it back off at lights out. With a lot more water moving through the system, the added noise was noticeable. I may put it on a timer, so it shuts off with the lights. I'm also still playing with the flow rate.

A good day of progress. Next, some fine tuning. Get the macros placed, and wait to see if the algae comes back. I imagine it will. We're at three months. It took me six to get out of Cyano City, in v1. I'm hoping I'm ahead of schedule this time!

I'm also curious to see what comes out of the live rock"¦

O wow, I can't wait to see the tank after you fine tune the rock placement and plant the macros. It sounds like the new rock is exactly what you were hoping for which is cool.

I am also anxious to see if you are ahead of schedule with v2 because that will really show what can work faster. 6 mos was a long time to struggle with algae the last time, (very few folks would have the perseverance to do that). Hopefully you have laid ground work that will encourage others to try a grass reef that will get established with a bit less long term work involved at the front end.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Dawn! I am very happy with the new rock. Tons of stuff on it. I still have a lot to do!

I believe I will be ahead of schedule, compared to v1. I think I slowed the maturation process in v1, keeping it nutrient poor in the first three months. Then I added fish, fed them, and cyano came acallin'!

This time I started with a dirty, high-nutrient sand bed and fish I fed from the start. So the algae onslaught began much earlier. I also made more of an effort to get a substantial crew in place much earlier. By applying what I learned in v1, this version should progress more quickly. We'll see!

If I succeed, I'm sure I'll go on and on about it!

I do hope to encourage others to try seagrasses. I was encouraged by a small number of people much smarter than me. I urge potential grass growers to study up. Probably the most helpful source of info was the "Forum Favorites - Old Helpful Posts", right here in RC's macro section.

Anyway, I best get in there and move some rocks and plant some plants!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I got a couple quick shots from today's rock and macro planting, post blackout. I'm always amazed how effective and simple blackouts are. I found a little cyano, but no dinos, today at least. Usually, you'd see oxygen bubbles increase through the day. Not today! It's a good sign but I'm not going to claim victory just yet.

Full tank view, with new rockscape. Back wall is almost algae-free.

The new rocks and macros. Kind of a low profile patch reef. I'm diggin' it!

Now I just need to sit back and watch.

 

[vlangel]

O wow Michael, that looks so good, I love it. Have you turned the return pump on yet or are you letting the new red macros establish themselves first?

I have a question for you...what depth should a sandbed be for the easiest to grow grasses? Could I get away with 5-6"?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Dawn! I'm cautiously optimistic. I have found traces of cyano, but no dinos.

I have turned on the main pump a couple of times, and turned it off. The increased flow has lead to some unforeseen problems. Mainly it's that it caused the water level in the overflow chamber to drop, leaving my top off sensor, canister intake and UV intake high and dry. It's fixable, I just need to think on it a while to figure out the best solution. So no massive tidal current for now. I had a feeling that turning on the pump wouldn't be so simple…

Sand bed depth is a function of root depth and size. Turtle grass has the biggest, deepest roots. Seven inches is recommended for them. The much smaller star grass can probably get by with two inches depth. In my experience, Shoal grass is the easiest to grow, and would probably need a minimum of three inches. So yes, 5-6 inches would work for most, if not all seagrasses.

That's an interesting question, Dawn! You got something up your sleeve?

 

[McPuff]

Whoa! That looks really cool. I like the new rocks as well. Nice addition.

 

[vlangel]

Thanks Dawn! I'm cautiously optimistic. I have found traces of cyano, but no dinos.

I have turned on the main pump a couple of times, and turned it off. The increased flow has lead to some unforeseen problems. Mainly it's that it caused the water level in the overflow chamber to drop, leaving my top off sensor, canister intake and UV intake high and dry. It's fixable, I just need to think on it a while to figure out the best solution. So no massive tidal current for now. I had a feeling that turning on the pump wouldn't be so simple"¦

Sand bed depth is a function of root depth and size. Turtle grass has the biggest, deepest roots. Seven inches is recommended for them. The much smaller star grass can probably get by with two inches depth. In my experience, Shoal grass is the easiest to grow, and would probably need a minimum of three inches. So yes, 5-6 inches would work for most, if not all seagrasses.

That's an interesting question, Dawn! You got something up your sleeve?

LOL, yes you sniffed out a motive for my question! I really love the idea of grasses and actually have been pondering it for awhile.

Back a bit I had considered using the 30g seahorse tank (after seahorses of course) for a grass/display fuge but I do not like the idea of 2 display tanks to keep clean plus 2 overflows don't thrill me either.

As I look at and study my tank I have not really successfully done much with the front middle right of the 56g blenny, goby macro tank. I tried to get the calcareous macros to take there but I have not had much luck with them. Right now dead center I have feather caulerpa but I would prefer not to have that in the display as it requires me to be super vigilant about keeping it contained to its area. I think I would enjoy building another retaining wall and layer a 4-5" sandbed of mixed grains (probably miracle mud too) and plant grasses in that area. It would not have the massive hypnotic effect of your tank but I do have the gyre set on forwards then backwards and I might get some swaying motion which could be cool. It looks like I could have about an 11" x 5" area for the grasses.

It will not really mimic any biotope but it is completely compatible with my natural high nutrient philosophy in that it gives me more DSB and something that will utilize nutrients. What do you think and am I missing anything obvious?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks McPuff!

Dawn, I don't see why you couldn't make that work. Go for it!

I have a suggestion that has popped into my head a couple of times, but haven't brought it up. For your post-seahorse days, why not consider one, big tank? I could see you easily filling a 120 or so with what you already have. Or maybe a 75 would work. It's a thought!

 

[vlangel]

Thanks McPuff!

Dawn, I don't see why you couldn't make that work. Go for it!

I have a suggestion that has popped into my head a couple of times, but haven't brought it up. For your post-seahorse days, why not consider one, big tank? I could see you easily filling a 120 or so with what you already have. Or maybe a 75 would work. It's a thought!

Ha ha ha, yes I have thought about a bigger tank too. I have been telling Dave for about the last 3 tanks that, "this is the LAST one ever!" My credibility is going down the tubes, and I used to have a very nice 90 gallon. I really feel that I need to make this tank work. I do not want to invest in new lights, tank and stand. I'd give up the sea grass idea before I would do that.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I hear that! My wife just barely puts up with me…

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Later in the day I noticed a few oxygen bubbles here and there, indicating dinos. A few spots of cyano remain as well. Tomorrow I'll do some export. My mantra is export the uglies, favor the macros. It would be nice if my macros would kick in and grow, but they need to adjust to their new placement. I added more Ulva to help out. Plus several of them growing on the fake wall are looking promising after the blackout cleared them of dinos.

The new live rock looks good. I may have to make one more adjustment to them, then I think I can leave them alone. The new Codium plants have not done well, but I have a few left that could make it. I turned down the temperature for them.

My metal halide fixture is on rails, so I can move it, left to right. I'm playing around with moving it closer to the middle of the tank to give the dark side a little more light.

 

[vlangel]

Later in the day I noticed a few oxygen bubbles here and there, indicating dinos. A few spots of cyano remain as well. Tomorrow I'll do some export. My mantra is export the uglies, favor the macros. It would be nice if my macros would kick in and grow, but they need to adjust to their new placement. I added more Ulva to help out. Plus several of them growing on the fake wall are looking promising after the blackout cleared them of dinos.

The new live rock looks good. I may have to make one more adjustment to them, then I think I can leave them alone. The new Codium plants have not done well, but I have a few left that could make it. I turned down the temperature for them.

My metal halide fixture is on rails, so I can move it, left to right. I'm playing around with moving it closer to the middle of the tank to give the dark side a little more light.

Persevere is the name of the game at this point!