what do i need for an ATO?

[PapaKlix]

unfortunately, my RO/DI reservoir is a floor below my tank (location on a stand has it no more than 7' below the top of the sump, but about 42' across the house). i've read use an aqualifter, then people saying they are only good up to 60" (which won't work for me).

would i basically need something like this Bulk Reef Supply ATO Kit and a pump? wouldn't the relay constantly be switching the pump on/off? this isn't bad for the pump? what kind of pump would work best if an aqualifter is insufficient?

 

[jg900rr]

couldnt u just use a mj 1200 for top off pump?

 

[PapaKlix]

Would the constant on/off be bad for the pump? Does the ATO system include an electrical switch to power the pump on and off?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

That ATO kit includes a relay ("electrical switch") that you splice into the power cord of your pump. Then, the float switches (which, in that kit, are powered by a 12v wall wart) turn the relay on and off, which turns your pump on and off.

Most float switches have a rated throw between being on and off. If a switch travels 1/4", it means your water level will change by 1/4" for each cycle. If you have a 10" x 10" return area in your sump (I'm making this up!), then that's about 1/5 gallon. If your tank evaporates one gallon a day, it'll turn on and off 5 times a day. This is generally not a problem for most pumps.

couldnt u just use a mj 1200 for top off pump?

There's no way in heck a MJ 1200 (or an aqualifter for that matter) will pump against 7' of vertical head and 42' of horizontal.

IMHO the best solution here is to move your RO/DI. If not, you're gonna have to use a pretty stout pump. It might make sense to use a much smaller RO/DI tank inside your stand if possible. You could run a line straight from the RO/DI unit itself, and use line pressure to get the water up to the smaller RO/DI tank. Then, use the ATO kit you linked to with an aqualifter to pump from that smaller RO/DI tank to the sump.

 

[kgross]

For that much head you will need a pretty good sized pump to pump the water up. A maxijet or aqualifter will not do it, but 2 or 3 aqualifters in series should.

To stop the constant on off, you can build you own latching relay setup and use 2 float switchs, one that turns on the pump and one that turns them off.

Kim

 

[Reefer2727]

I am following this thread as I also want to set up my RTO in the basement. So far, the thing I know is that I wont directly hook up my basement RTO to my sump. Seems very risky.

I plan to have a smaller ATO reservoir somewhere in my stand cabinet. As well as a bigger one in the basement. Just trying to figure out the best and safest way to get that water to my smaller ATO reservoir. I am considering just topping up my ATO reservoir manually once a week or so. I certainly will figure out a way to avoid carrying buckets of water up the stairs.

Keep the recommendations coming.

 

[PapaKlix]

thanks to all for the replies and suggestions, moving the RO/DI is not an option. i am not averse to getting a larger pump, but why would that be risky? i have no problems checking the sump daily to ensure that it is maintaining the level, i just have an issue with having to constantly (and not regularly enough throughout the day IMO) haul pitchers of water from the basement. i also do not have ANY kind of room in my sump for a reserve tank of any sort so that option is out for me.

please keep the good suggestions coming.

 

[cdness]

get the ATO kit from BRS with the 12V relay to add the safety factor. Then put a timer on the 12V power supply to turn on a couple times poer day. That can control how often the ATO pump is turned on. It can also help prevent flooding in case a switch fails...

 

[kgross]

Just use a larger pump, or multiple pumps in series and have a backup shut off device so you don't overflow the sump.

Kim

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15168866#post15168866 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
I am following this thread as I also want to set up my RTO in the basement. So far, the thing I know is that I wont directly hook up my basement RTO to my sump. Seems very risky.

I plan to have a smaller ATO reservoir somewhere in my stand cabinet. As well as a bigger one in the basement. Just trying to figure out the best and safest way to get that water to my smaller ATO reservoir. I am considering just topping up my ATO reservoir manually once a week or so. I certainly will figure out a way to avoid carrying buckets of water up the stairs.

Keep the recommendations coming.

Run standard RO tubing directly from the RO unit to the small ATO in your stand, then control as you would with any ATO tank. IMHO any other method introduces complexity (additional pumps, additional controls, etc.) which increases the risk of failure.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15169006#post15169006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kgross
Just use a larger pump, or multiple pumps in series and have a backup shut off device so you don't overflow the sump.

Kim

Or, run Ro tubing up to the tank, and use a solenoid controlled by float switches and/or a float valve to control flow into the sump.

If you decide to go with a pump, autotopoff.com has some pumps specifically for small flow rates that might work:

http://www.autotopoff.com/pumps/

The highest head model is good to ~17 feet, which should cover your needs.

 

[Reefer2727]

Thanks Der Willie..

I like this method but I am terrified of flooding the ATO reservoir under the stand. This could easily happen when a float valve fails. And it seems like they fail often. I guess I could set up redundant safety float valves.

How would this be set up? How would the RO unit know when to shut down and how would that happen? Please explain where valves would be. Kind of confusing for me to picture it with the RO unit being in the basement.

 

[kgross]

This is why you need a secondary backup shutoff. If you are using a float valve, have a seloniod and float switch mounted as a backup to turn it off if the float valve fails for any reason.



With the RO in the basement, run RO tubing to the sump. have a float valve mounted in the sump to control the flow. In the sump above the float valve mount a float switch, which runs a 12 volt selinoid that will shut off the water before the float valve incase the float valve fails. Now you have 2 devices which must fail before the sump can overflow.

Kim

 

[Reefer2727]

Thanks Kim,

This sounds like it may be the way to go.

Sorry for the hijacking of this thread. I will start a new one as I have some more questions.

 

[kgross]

I will say you need something for a secondary backup failsafe with any ATO setup. Either a small ato container, or double shutoffs, or all the above it is very easy for something to go wrong with an ATO and cause water on the floor.

I took over maintance on a tank in a doctors office a few years ago that for the ATO had a blue line tsunami unit with the float mounted in the return on the sump (just using the suction cups) and a a30 gallon top off container. Floor would get wet about once a month since the suction cups would fail, float would float on the water and not shut off, ato would pump all the water from the container.

I had to redu the sump to mount the float solidly, plus I put a float valve on it as a backup, never flooded after that.

Kim

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15169455#post15169455 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kgross
I will say you need something for a secondary backup failsafe with any ATO setup.

Absolutely. Having overflowed more than one sump due to my own ATO stupidity, I would never use or recommend any ATO setup that had a single point of control (which always means it has a potential single point of failure).

 

[cabrego]

no really good solution for you. You will need some kind of float switch style ato system coupled with a large pump. Forget about running pumps in series, I don't think that will work first of all. And 2 it is not a smart idea.

If you can not buy a strong pump, move your ro di, or setup an ato tub near your tank. there is no real solution to your problem.

 

[therealfatman]

A used MasterFlex 7543-XX pump from ebay and a #18 standard pump head or a Easy load I or Easy Load II pump head would work great with a couple float switches in the sump that are hooked up to relays. The XX stands for pump rpm. A rpm of 01 up to 30 would work quite well. The pump long distances and heigths but are limited in suction heights and suction lengths so the pump should be near the water source. kgross, StuRay or Beananimal could help you with relay wiring directions/schematics.

The below setuo would work quite well and is quite cheap.

cgi.ebay.com/Cole-Parmer-Masterflex...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

It is a variable speed pump and the combination would usually sell for around $75.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15170933#post15170933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by therealfatman

The below setuo would work quite well and is quite cheap.

cgi.ebay.com/Cole-Parmer-Masterflex...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

It is a variable speed pump and the combination would usually sell for around $75.

What is the flow rate on something like that? I'd imagine many perstaltic pumps are quite low. (Of course that's not a bad thing, just worth knowing IMHO.)