What do I need to go beyond 1:1?

Kinetic

Active member
I have a Sigma 105mm F/2.8 1:1 Macro, and I've been taking 1:1 shots (which is VERY difficult without a macro focusing rail). But I've seen photos (like gregr's) that go a bit beyond with some more magnification (yes I know the digital is a bit more than 1:1, but still).

What single piece of equipment do you add on? What would you recommend? I know there are a few methods to do it, but what's the best way?

I've heard of extension tubes, teleconverters...

How do they compare when attached to my sigma macro?
 
The best answer I have received are with teleconverters and/or extension tubes. A TC will give you more magnification without affecting the minimum focusing distance where as extension tubes will give you more magnification by bringing the focusing distance closer. The pro's of a TC more magnification without getting closer. The con's are the TC's are glass and shooting through less glass is always better. Extension tubes work but may not do much good since the minimum focusing distance may be so close that it won't always be useable since you are limited by the distance between the coral and glass. I plan to get a Sigma 150mm macro, add a 1.4x TC and extension tubes which will give me some crazy magnification at about 6". I should be able to fill the sensor with something the size of about 1cm at 6". I ordered a 1.4x TC for my Canon 100mm F/2.8 macro lens and should have it any day now to play with but the 150mm is on my shopping list.
 
thanks for the tips! I would definitely think bringing the focusing distance closer won't be a good idea for reef photography... I mean that's why people go with the 105 or 150 rather than a 60mm.

I guess we just need to get a really good TC?

I'll research into those. Thank you!
 
I bought the Kenko Pro 300 DG 1.4x teleconverter. It was like $130 or so shipped from Hong Kong. And be sure to check the compatibility with the TC's and your lens as they can vary (example, the Canon one doesn't work with the Canon 100mm). I hear good things about the Sigma 1.4x TC but it's a little more expensive than the Kenko. I also heard the 2x would degrade the image much more than the 1.4x, keep that in mind as well.
 
I've got the Tamron 1.4x and am happy with it. It was used on a couple of the Yosemite shots that I posted last week.
 
I've been taking 1:1 shots (which is VERY difficult without a macro focusing rail)
This comes with practice. A good technique is setting the magnification first, then rock back and forth to get the plane of focus onto the desired point.


There are two main points of consideration when acquiring macro gear:
1. Required magnification: this is usually 1x magnification
2. Working distance

There are several “routes” into higher magnification, these includes:
  • Extension tubes: These are basically just a metal tube with electronic connections. The purpose is to increase the distance between the focal point and the sensor/film. This allows for closer focusing, however you lose the ability to focus to infinity. Extension tubes do not contain any optical elements, and thus theoretically do not degrade image quality. The best value for money tubes are the Kenko set of three. They are manufactured for every major camera mount that exist.
  • Diopters: Diopters are essentially high quality magnifying glasses. Both Nikon and Canon offers these. The multi-element ones are much much better, but with corresponding prices. Nikons are called the 3T, 6T etc and Canon's the 500D and 250D. Testing gives a slight edge to the Canon 500D, but the Nikon's are cheaper. Not brand specific. If you do go this route, buy the 77mm one and get a 77->Xmm step-down adapter, this way it can be used all future lenses too and thus protecting your investment. Nikon have recently discontinued their T series of diopters.
  • Reverse mounting: These adapters allow you to mount your camera lens in the reverse direction. This effectively turn your lens into a very high quality and magnification diopter. These adapters are cheap and easily found on Ebay.
  • Dedicated macro lens: The only lens that fits the bill would be the Canon MP-E65. While this sounds great, the 65 isn't for the faint hearted. It is difficult to shoot with but can produce excellent results with practice.
  • Teleconverters: These are specially designed "lens". However, you will find that Canon/Nikon TC's are not compatible with third party lenses. In addition, Canon and Nikon TC+lens combo are specially designed to maximise performance, i.e. some Canon lenses have a hole at the back for the TC to insert into. In fact, compatibility with manufacturer's TC is one of the strong points going for Canon/Nikon macro lenses over 3rd party offerings.

With these many choices all providing extra “macro” capabilities, which one is suitable for you? It depends on your purpose. Here's some pro and cons for each of the above:

Extension tubes are cheap, but you lose quite a bit of light. A 25mm ext tube will cut the light by about 2 stops (need 4x longer exposure to achieve the same exposure). Extension tubes can be used on longer lenses to reduce working distance. i.e. the 300mm lens + extension tubes is a favourite for shooting butterflies. You lose infinity focus with ext tubes.

Diopters are cheap, and high quality diopters give good optical result. They work on all lenses so long as the filter ring fits (hence getting the biggest one protects your investment). Examples of diopters include Canon’s 500D and Nikon’s 3T. You also lose infinity focus with this.

Reverse mounting a lens gives very high magnification but the working distance is very bad. Personally I would recommend this only to more seasoned macro shooters. It's not all that useful for everyday macro shooting since it gives very high magnification. In terms of aquarium photography, this technique can only be used to photograph subjects close to the glass due to the poor working distance. No infinity focus, but is very economical. The adapter rings can be had on Ebay for next to nothing. This approach stands the highest chance of being approved by the CFO.


Some example of high magnification:

Canon EF MP-E65:
CRW_2405.jpg


CRW_1359.jpg


CRW_2046.jpg


Stacked extension tube:
crw_9529.jpg


centennial_long_legged_fly_02.jpg
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9410277#post9410277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by louist
[*]Diopters: Diopters are essentially high quality magnifying glasses. Both Nikon and Canon offers these. The multi-element ones are much much better, but with corresponding prices. Nikons are called the 3T, 6T etc and Canon's the 500D and 250D. Testing gives a slight edge to the Canon 500D, but the Nikon's are cheaper. Not brand specific. If you do go this route, buy the 77mm one and get a 77->Xmm step-down adapter, this way it can be used all future lenses too and thus protecting your investment. Nikon have recently discontinued their T series of diopters.

those photos you posted are amazing! nice =)

From what I've gathered from your extremely informative post, it seems like diopters would be my best option with my 105mm sigma? I didn't see many pitfalls of a diopter... such as increased stops, etc. (only the infinite focus I guess).
 
Kinetic, unfortunately diopters don't offer great increases in magnification. I understand that you are looking for >2x, which isn't possible with diopters.

If I was in your position, I would consider:
1. The MP-E65 if you are a Canon shooter and if budget allows
2. Reverse lens setup. Reverse a 50mm lens onto your current macro lens. This would give plenty of magnification
3. Reverse lens setup by reversing a 30~50mm lens directly onto the camera body.

Keep in mind that due to the nature of subjects being behind glass and perhaps "far" away (far in the relative sense), some of these technique may perform very poorly since they require very short working distance.

In summary, there isn't a good way to get high magnification when it comes to aquarium photography due to the working distance constraint. Even with a dedicated lens like the MP-E65, you can still only photograph subjects close to the glass, IF you can get your tripod that close. Your best option is to upgrade to a 10'000 gallon system and go diving in there with an underwater housing.
 
I've noticed decreased image quality when using diopters. Remember, adding extra glass to shoot through won't help image quality.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9410495#post9410495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by louist
2. Reverse lens setup. Reverse a 50mm lens onto your current macro lens. This would give plenty of magnification

Reversing a 50mm lens and then attaching the macro to it? This is the kit you mentioned a few posts earlier?

Is reversing a lens permanent? I have a 50mm F/1.8D Nikkor, would that work? I don't want to destroy it, using it only as a reversed lens... but again I don't know enough about reversing.

Do you have any online resources that talks about this method? I'd hate to keep asking you these newbie questions without researching existing resources first =P

I really appreciate the help!
 
yeah... though I'm hoping it'll still be managable for my hobbyist purposes, but I guess only testing will tell. Even being a hobbyist, i'm pretty darn picky =P I'm sure you guys are all too hehe

I'm going to go research into reversing a 50 and putting a macro on it.
 
i just saw this:
http://www.ephotozine.com/equipment/buyersguide/fullbuyersguide.cfm?buyersguideid=12

That last coupler ring looks like what I need right?


edit:
and from wikipedia:
Reversing a lens of lesser focal length in front of a normally mounted lens using a very inexpensive "macro coupler," which uses two male filter threads to join lenses. This method allows most cameras to maintain the full function of electronic communication with the normally mounted lens for features such as open-aperture metering. Magnification ratio is calculated by dividing the focal length of the normally mounted lens by the focal length of the reversed lens (i.e., when a 50 mm lens is reverse mounted on a 200 mm lens a 4:1 magnification ratio is achieved). The use of automatic focus is not recommended due to the extra weight of the reverse-mounted lens. Attempted use of automatic focus with this technique could result in damage to the camera or lens. Working distance is significantly reduced as compared to the original lens.
 
You can buy a reverse coupler ring that will allow the 50mm to attach to the end of your macro lens via the filter threads. Nothing will be permanetly changed or anything, but your workind distance may be too shallow to work with your aquarium (though I haven't tried it). I have messed around holding the 50mm in front of my 100mm and the working distance was like under 2".
 
eek, 2"?

well it's worth a try for about $15:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Macro-Coupler-Reverse-Ring-52mm-62mm-Closeup_W0QQitemZ180082476330QQcmdZViewItem

My 50mm has a 52mm thread, and my 105mm sigma macro has a 62mm front thread. I'll probably pick this up and give it a try.

If it doesn't work because of the working distance, I'll just go for some flowers and bugs instead ;)

Or heck, dive into my 40g prop tank ;)


Which brings me to another question, enclosures for taking top down shots... I'll start another thread about that =P
 
Reverse mounting rings are not brand specific, you just need to purchase the correct sized ones for the "main" and "reversed" lenses.

If your choice of the "reversed" lens is sensible, and choice of aperture is correct, you can get very good quality photos from this kind of setup. The main enemy of reversed lens setup is vignetting, which can be minimised if you close down a bit and pick a "reversed" lens that's isn't too wide (in terms of focal length).
 
I'm going with my Sigma 105mm F/2.8 1:1 Macro and a 52mm to 62mm macro coupler to attach my Nikon 50mm F/1.8D.

The only thing that scares me is the fact that the rear element is so exposed!

I'm thinking of getting an end cap and cutting the bottom of it open, thus making a "hood" to somewhat protect the rear element.

Hope that doesn't create vignetting either, but it shouldhn't since this isn't really wide at all (quite the opposite) right?


I'm still so confused why reversing would magnify... I think I need to look into exactly how the lens optics work.
 
I'm thinking of getting an end cap and cutting the bottom of it open, thus making a "hood" to somewhat protect the rear element.
That's the way to do it.

Hope that doesn't create vignetting either
It shouldn't since the field of view is very narrow. The faster the reversed lens the better, since it provides a bigger lens opening. i.e. a 50mm f4 lens might not work too well at all. 50 f1.8 should work very well for reversed setups.

I'm still so confused why reversing would magnify
The reversed lens act as a high quality magnifying glass, a diopter, that magnifies the projected image. Your main lens is then focused onto this projected image and hence the increased magnification.

For diopter filters:
Magnification = Diopter power of supplementary lens X focal length of lens in meters

Diopter power of reversed lens = 1000mm / focal length of reversed lens in mm

The magnification gained with a reversed lens setup is calculated as follows:
Magnification = focal length of prime lens / focal length of reversed lens
So, stack a 50mm on the front of a 100mm macro lens, and you have 2x magnification.
 
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