What do people with large tanks do when Ich is present?
- Thread starter guyguerra
- Start date
guyguerra
Premium Member
Sorry for not posting for a while, but that means I have a longer period to use for an example. The ich I had in my display occurred in the first week of April, and lasted for two or three weeks. You can see what I did in my posts, but basically just kept my water quality up and gave vitamins and Garlic, and made sure I didn't do anything that stressed my fish. The Ich cleared up, and I didn't loose any fish. I had the emergency in my 50 gallon tank, which you can read in my post of 5-12-2006, and added the fish that almost died in the 50 gallon to my refugium in the 230. I decided to put them in the 230 once they got healthier. Even these fish, that were at deaths door, didn't pick up any Ich in my tank, so I am convinced it is gone. I have not seen anything since. No Ich, no sickness of any kind, and I haven't lost a fish. I'm convinced that it is best to avoid over reacting to Ich. I also think that large tanks are harder for Ich to infest strongly enough to do serious damage, and I also believe you can't help but get it someday when you have these large tanks. I add macro algae every month, and pods, and still an occasional coral. You can't QT everything. On the other hand, I will always QT fish.
Psionicdragon
New member
I still have Ick after doing hypo on my tank and its in hypo again.
I lost a powder blue tang
. I reintroduced my ozone generator and hopefully it will help. I may add a UV to the tank just to finally get rid of this.
I lost a powder blue tang
. I reintroduced my ozone generator and hopefully it will help. I may add a UV to the tank just to finally get rid of this.
guyguerra
Premium Member
Poknsnok, I asked that same question at the beginning of this thread. A lot of people with large tanks have seen ich, but were able to beat it by good husbandry methods. My tank had ich in April, and it went away after a couple of weeks. I have added several fish since then, and have not seen ich again. It's my experience and hypothesis that large tanks make it harder for ich to overtake the tank, where it can more easily get hold of smaller tanks. I had many people tell me that I had to tear down my tank and QT all the fish. That was impossible, and would have killed my fish for sure, and I would have had to tear out much of the rock, and corals to catch them. I would need a 150 gallon QT just to house all the fish that live in my 230. It's been 5 months and my tank still looks great, and all the fish are healthy. I believe the size of the tank has a lot to do with your treatment options.
Psionicdragon, what is your tank like/ I looked for pictures but didn't see any. I assume it's fish only since you were able to do hypo. How many of your fish have ich? How long have you had it?
Psionicdragon, what is your tank like/ I looked for pictures but didn't see any. I assume it's fish only since you were able to do hypo. How many of your fish have ich? How long have you had it?
jkmargerum
New member
I have a mild case of ich in my 215. The system is new and so am I to this. My hippo was the first to show signs and then all the Yellows followed. I was already feeding garlic and Zoe. I now feed them twice a day now and hooked up a UV sterilizer. The ich disappeared on the Yellows before I had the UV set up. The hippo started looking really bad, almost completely covered in dots. That same day she finally started visiting the cleaner shrimp. The very next day her ich was 90% clear.
This has been going on for almost a month now. The yellows have been clear for over 2 weeks now and the hippo still has a few dots on her fins. None of the fish have slowed down activity or appetite. All I plan to do is keep them fat and comfortable and wait to see what happens. If it looks like one of them is going to die then I'll take it out and treat it. At that point a potentially deadly treatment will be worth the risk.
Kim
This has been going on for almost a month now. The yellows have been clear for over 2 weeks now and the hippo still has a few dots on her fins. None of the fish have slowed down activity or appetite. All I plan to do is keep them fat and comfortable and wait to see what happens. If it looks like one of them is going to die then I'll take it out and treat it. At that point a potentially deadly treatment will be worth the risk.
Kim
Kennyboy1984
New member
Any experiences with fish living long term(I am talking for 1 or 2 decades) in a tank with ich?
poknsnok
New member
jk... mine had the same "cycle" occur.. the ich will show... then disappear and theen it comes back.. it has a life cycle where the parasite emerges from the fish and falls off which gives the appearance that the fish is better. unfortunately for me and my "dory" it continued to come back and she finnaly died. Ich is VERY" hard on Hippo Tangs..If you can remove her and do some sort of treatment i would. my other tangs fared much better. the naso never showed any spots and the kole had a single minor outbreak and never showed another sign of ich. that was 6 months ago
jkmargerum
New member
Yes, I'm fully aware of the life cycle. The last of the dots came off last night on the blue. I'll see in the next few weeks what happens at the next cycle. The UV is still on. I'm not going to stess my tank out to get her out.
I finally got the fish to the point they know when to expect food but do not act like they are starving or get aggressive at each feeding. Those who like the flake eat it and those who prefer meat wait for it. The tangs actually "graze" on thier veggie clip rather than ravage it in the first few minutes. I believe that they are comfortable with the amount and variaty of their food and that takes a lot of natural stress off of them. That's my goal.
Last I checked this thread was about methods other than ripping apart tanks and segragating fish. I'm not here for advice, I'm just sharing my point of view.
I finally got the fish to the point they know when to expect food but do not act like they are starving or get aggressive at each feeding. Those who like the flake eat it and those who prefer meat wait for it. The tangs actually "graze" on thier veggie clip rather than ravage it in the first few minutes. I believe that they are comfortable with the amount and variaty of their food and that takes a lot of natural stress off of them. That's my goal.
Last I checked this thread was about methods other than ripping apart tanks and segragating fish. I'm not here for advice, I'm just sharing my point of view.
guyguerra
Premium Member
I'll be curious on your Hippo also. I lost a Hippo when I started in this hobby, and decided they were to prone to ich for me, though others seem to do better with them than me. I have become a die hard about not tearing a large reef apart because of ich, and believe it kills more than it cures when you do. I just re-landscaped mine after a year just to freshen the tank and have a new look, and that was hard to do without damaging any of the corals, I couldn't imagine what it would be like to try getting the fish out! Keep us posted.
jkmargerum
New member
OK Guy, I'll keep you posted on how she's doing. But first let me give you an insight on my approach.
My goal for my fish is to provide a healthy happy environment through good nutrition and a comfortable environment. I've finally gotten my fish past the feeding habits of the LFS who normally feed the minimal amounts for cost reduction and to keep them from outgrowing the small tanks. At first, like any new fish, feeding time was a frenzy. Don't get me wrong, they still get excited over food but not near as ravenous.
I feed a variety of foods at each feeding. First I start with a pinch of Formula One flake moistened with a few drops of garlic and Zoe. I feed this for about 2 min. Next comes meat. I take 3 cubes (1 Formula One, 1 Brine w/Omega 3, and 1 Brine/Mysis w/spirulina) all soaked in garlic and Zoe. These 3 cubes last about 2 days. I also feed the meat for about 2 min. I buy Nori sheets at the Whole Foods store to be sure there are no preservatives and I soak that in garlic and Zoe as well. The veggie clip takes about 3 hours to be consumed by lazy swim-by nibbles.
All of the fish seem to have their preferences. The tangs really enjoy the flake and the veggie but only nibble a little on the meat. The cleaner wrasses won't touch the flake but like the meat and veggie clip. The clowns have mood swings; sometimes they prefer meat over flake, sometimes vice versa. The Chromis' will eat both flake and meat although they seem to enjoy the meat more.
I started feeding twice a day when the ich was first noticed. Since the new feeding regimen has been working so well I will probably always feed a morning and evening meal.
I also believe aquascaping is also very important for a fish's happiness (stress level.) My tank is set up with the minimal amount of live rock placed in a way that every rock creates a cave or cavern of some sort. I am adding corals but I will not overload the tank with them. My main priority for the tank is fish. The corals just make it look nicer.
I know I'm not an expert at this but I've done lots and lots of research to get to this point. The way I see it, because all of the "proven" methods for curing ich is potentially deadly to the fish, there is no definite treatment or cure. I'm not saying anyone should take my approach as gospel I'm just sharing what I believe is the best for my fish.
A picture is worth a thousand words, here's a few thousand....
Here are some pictures of my aquascaping. My tangs especially love the caves and caverns to swim through and around...
Who are you calling FAT!?!
When a large piece of the veggie is pulled off, all the tangs get in on disposing of it properly... :lol:
My goal for my fish is to provide a healthy happy environment through good nutrition and a comfortable environment. I've finally gotten my fish past the feeding habits of the LFS who normally feed the minimal amounts for cost reduction and to keep them from outgrowing the small tanks. At first, like any new fish, feeding time was a frenzy. Don't get me wrong, they still get excited over food but not near as ravenous.
I feed a variety of foods at each feeding. First I start with a pinch of Formula One flake moistened with a few drops of garlic and Zoe. I feed this for about 2 min. Next comes meat. I take 3 cubes (1 Formula One, 1 Brine w/Omega 3, and 1 Brine/Mysis w/spirulina) all soaked in garlic and Zoe. These 3 cubes last about 2 days. I also feed the meat for about 2 min. I buy Nori sheets at the Whole Foods store to be sure there are no preservatives and I soak that in garlic and Zoe as well. The veggie clip takes about 3 hours to be consumed by lazy swim-by nibbles.
All of the fish seem to have their preferences. The tangs really enjoy the flake and the veggie but only nibble a little on the meat. The cleaner wrasses won't touch the flake but like the meat and veggie clip. The clowns have mood swings; sometimes they prefer meat over flake, sometimes vice versa. The Chromis' will eat both flake and meat although they seem to enjoy the meat more.
I started feeding twice a day when the ich was first noticed. Since the new feeding regimen has been working so well I will probably always feed a morning and evening meal.
I also believe aquascaping is also very important for a fish's happiness (stress level.) My tank is set up with the minimal amount of live rock placed in a way that every rock creates a cave or cavern of some sort. I am adding corals but I will not overload the tank with them. My main priority for the tank is fish. The corals just make it look nicer.
I know I'm not an expert at this but I've done lots and lots of research to get to this point. The way I see it, because all of the "proven" methods for curing ich is potentially deadly to the fish, there is no definite treatment or cure. I'm not saying anyone should take my approach as gospel I'm just sharing what I believe is the best for my fish.
A picture is worth a thousand words, here's a few thousand....
Here are some pictures of my aquascaping. My tangs especially love the caves and caverns to swim through and around...
Who are you calling FAT!?!
When a large piece of the veggie is pulled off, all the tangs get in on disposing of it properly... :lol:
jkmargerum
New member
ok, last time I posted she had cleared up completely. 2 days later she showed a small area on her left side with several dots. That was gone in a day (I think the shrimp had something to do with that.) Since then she has been clear. Still no change in appetite and activity. We're still watching....
boxfishpooalot
Active member
Would you think an aquarium with 200ppm of nitrates and 3ppm of phosphates would have fish infested with ich?
Well this is my aquarium unfortunately. Why is it this way? Well its because I feed my 17 fish in 125 gallons of water way too much! I run chaeto under a 400watt halide for nutrients export. But still nuteints continue to rise. I have never done a waterchange. But still, all fish are ICH free!
Funny thing is, listen to this story. I recently started doing water changes daily to bring down the nitrates and phosphates so I can have nice corals. Well my trates are down to 40ppm and phospahtes is 1ppm. You know whats funny? My fish started scratching!
Why? Well I pondered to myself, what can cause my fish to get sick,after all im bettering the water.Right? So anyways on to a little testing of water.
I test my specific gravity, one of the most major constitues of seawater. And its 1.025. After 5days of large changes, my salinity dropped from 1.026-25. That is my cause of ich right there.
Strange it seems? Nope, its chemistry effecting your livestock. So now im raising the sg back up to 1.026. This is their natural salt level, and thats where they have always been happy.
On a side note. My fish act this way all the time. They only seem to contract the scratching period of ich when the salinity drops like this. Bring it back up, and the fish go back to normal.
Stability and feeding is the key to go.
Well this is my aquarium unfortunately. Why is it this way? Well its because I feed my 17 fish in 125 gallons of water way too much! I run chaeto under a 400watt halide for nutrients export. But still nuteints continue to rise. I have never done a waterchange. But still, all fish are ICH free!
Funny thing is, listen to this story. I recently started doing water changes daily to bring down the nitrates and phosphates so I can have nice corals. Well my trates are down to 40ppm and phospahtes is 1ppm. You know whats funny? My fish started scratching!
Why? Well I pondered to myself, what can cause my fish to get sick,after all im bettering the water.Right? So anyways on to a little testing of water.
I test my specific gravity, one of the most major constitues of seawater. And its 1.025. After 5days of large changes, my salinity dropped from 1.026-25. That is my cause of ich right there.
Strange it seems? Nope, its chemistry effecting your livestock. So now im raising the sg back up to 1.026. This is their natural salt level, and thats where they have always been happy.
On a side note. My fish act this way all the time. They only seem to contract the scratching period of ich when the salinity drops like this. Bring it back up, and the fish go back to normal.
Stability and feeding is the key to go.
boxfishpooalot
Active member
Im not going to repeat that again...
Its happend many times my friend
just my observations about fish for 12 years of my life.In gereral feed them alot and they will be fine. The sick ones dont make it when they are not fed enough.
Osmorgulation is causing this. Any fish that has to expend more energy to maintain it internal pressure will have less energy for critical biological funcitons. Like disease resistiance!
Its happend many times my friend
just my observations about fish for 12 years of my life.In gereral feed them alot and they will be fine. The sick ones dont make it when they are not fed enough.
Osmorgulation is causing this. Any fish that has to expend more energy to maintain it internal pressure will have less energy for critical biological funcitons. Like disease resistiance!
Just to note to say that I (well, the fish really) am going through my first outbreak of 'ich' in many, many years. As most of you know, I have a 500g, 'sps' dominant reeftank that has been in constant operation for 10 years. Many of my fish have also been with me quite a long time and they range in size from a 1" Flame Hawk to a 12+" Sohal Tang. The most frustrating aspect of this particular event to me is the fact that I haven't added any new fish to the tank since last Feb. And, as I have no room for a dedicated QT tank, even they were given Formulin baths and held for observation in my refugium for a few weeks before introduction to the tank. What I DID do was disturb some long established live rock while preparing for some fragging work and re-aquascaping and THIS, according to Kelly Jedlicki, a well known expert in the field of fish disease and health, said MAY have been the cause...that the disease was just kind of dormant in the tank all these years and my disturbing of the rockwork could have jump started the cycle again.
It's very difficult to prove or disprove this theory because there are not very many 10 year old reetanks around to experiment with.
In any evernt, I too was advised to remove all the fish (I have over 30, most of them Anthias), treat them separately, and let the tank go fallow for 6-8 weeks. And, of course, to do this, I would have remove all the coral and rockwork...in effect, starting my reef all over again.
This thread therefore is tailor made for me, as I would no more tear down my tank at this point, as I would tear down my house. Some of the fish DID look pretty bad (the Tangs mostly and my Copperband) but all are eating well. Oddly, some other fish show absolutely no signs of infection (the Anthias, Flame Hawks, Regal Angel, Green Chromis). The only 'treatment' I am doing is adding garlic extract to their food. Because most of them are very well established, I can literally place this food on a plastic fork, hold it in the tank, and watch them as they line up to feed from it. In other words, I KNOW they are getting the garlic into their systems.
Result? Well, I've been doing this nearly a week now and I have to say they DO look better. Whether this is a result of the cysts falling off as part of their life cycle or the disease 'going back to sleep' I don't yet know. It's still too early to tell. But as this is all new to me and I AM dealing with established fish in a long established tank, I'm very interested in how this plays out. Sadly, I am prepared to lose some fish with this 'experiment'. But I'd be even more devastated to lose my corals, not to mention destroy my marriage, (" Umm, hon? Can I set up another 500 gallon tank to put all the fish in...oh, and maybe one more to hold the corals and rock while I catch 'em? If everything works out okay, this whole thing should only take me 3-4 months of every waking moment while you watch the kid. Can I, huh?") in an effort to cure a disease that some of YOU guys seem to have success with by just letting it run its course!
Anyway, sorry to ramble on here with no real question but if a peripheral purpose of this thread was to let everyone know they are not alone in this, you are not alone in this. Heck, I know I feel better now. And I will keep you apprised.
It's very difficult to prove or disprove this theory because there are not very many 10 year old reetanks around to experiment with.
In any evernt, I too was advised to remove all the fish (I have over 30, most of them Anthias), treat them separately, and let the tank go fallow for 6-8 weeks. And, of course, to do this, I would have remove all the coral and rockwork...in effect, starting my reef all over again.
This thread therefore is tailor made for me, as I would no more tear down my tank at this point, as I would tear down my house. Some of the fish DID look pretty bad (the Tangs mostly and my Copperband) but all are eating well. Oddly, some other fish show absolutely no signs of infection (the Anthias, Flame Hawks, Regal Angel, Green Chromis). The only 'treatment' I am doing is adding garlic extract to their food. Because most of them are very well established, I can literally place this food on a plastic fork, hold it in the tank, and watch them as they line up to feed from it. In other words, I KNOW they are getting the garlic into their systems.
Result? Well, I've been doing this nearly a week now and I have to say they DO look better. Whether this is a result of the cysts falling off as part of their life cycle or the disease 'going back to sleep' I don't yet know. It's still too early to tell. But as this is all new to me and I AM dealing with established fish in a long established tank, I'm very interested in how this plays out. Sadly, I am prepared to lose some fish with this 'experiment'. But I'd be even more devastated to lose my corals, not to mention destroy my marriage, (" Umm, hon? Can I set up another 500 gallon tank to put all the fish in...oh, and maybe one more to hold the corals and rock while I catch 'em? If everything works out okay, this whole thing should only take me 3-4 months of every waking moment while you watch the kid. Can I, huh?") in an effort to cure a disease that some of YOU guys seem to have success with by just letting it run its course!
Anyway, sorry to ramble on here with no real question but if a peripheral purpose of this thread was to let everyone know they are not alone in this, you are not alone in this. Heck, I know I feel better now. And I will keep you apprised.
jkmargerum
New member
Ivy,
Are you running UV? It helps cut down the amount of tomites(sp?) in the water during each life cycle. It doesn't kill it all but it does give the fish quite a bit less to fight.
Are you running UV? It helps cut down the amount of tomites(sp?) in the water during each life cycle. It doesn't kill it all but it does give the fish quite a bit less to fight.
MammothReefer
Active member
I plan on doing the same thing I did with my smaller tanks, for me ICH = stress = problems with the water or feeding ect..
So.. I do a water change, feed more, check my parameters and thats pretty much it. The last fish to ich was 4 years ago, and I Don't qt.. I know this sounds harsh, but.. if there eating, and have cleaners (gobies, skunks) in the tank. It seems to work out fine once you get whatever was stressing them back under controll.
So.. I do a water change, feed more, check my parameters and thats pretty much it. The last fish to ich was 4 years ago, and I Don't qt.. I know this sounds harsh, but.. if there eating, and have cleaners (gobies, skunks) in the tank. It seems to work out fine once you get whatever was stressing them back under controll.
Yeah, but I'm only running 120w of it via a 3-stage Aquamedic because I haven't had to deal with this kind of thing in several years. It was used as more of a prophylactic than anything else. I HAVE recently changed the bulbs though so it should, at least, be operating efficiently.
doggiestlist
New member
i have a 300 gal semi aggressive reef 5 tangs 1 foxface and other varieties of fish but my concern as far as ich and other problems always if for my tangs my hippo is usually the first to show any signs of having it so in this case i boost feeding to 5 times per day with thera+A pellets by spectrum within 2 days the spots are gone i normally feed the pellets to them 3 times per day and alternate days of a pm feeding of frozen prepared foods mixed with selcon and garlic extreme .in 5 yrs in this hobby i have not lost a single fish that has lived past acclimation(2 weeks) to ich.other things yes but not ich( most new fish are eaten by something in my tank :mad2:
