What do you do to help the reef?

I think about this a lot. And there is an air of guilt when i buy something that has come straight out of the ocean. When i think of how much life was lost so i could learn how to keep a reef in my livingroom ... I now only buy corals and fish that were tank raised. That is one of the reasons i signed up for RC in the first place. But its fleeting, I know that people are not going to stop. humans have an innate ability to ignore reality and focus on their own desires. I am glad to see that some are concerned about it but in reality there are way more people who dont care or at least are too focused on their own lives to change that. Hopefully your book can open some eyes!
 
"and if ANY of the posters here drive a car, or use electricity,plastics, fertilizer, etc., etc., your well intended efforts to 'help the reef' are really nothing but a useless gesture that may make you feel a bit better, but accomplish nothing to mitigate the damage you're causing by your very lifestyle/mode of living, unfortunately"

Those who buy electric car you guys should look up how making batteries are more harmful to the environment ! And you have to replace tesla battery at 100,000miles that cost 10k that's an example all other battery operated cars are the same story.
China has little to noting like EPA control factories are not regulated yet we buy stuff from china and support that main problem.

I'm truly sick and tired of all of this there is nothing you can do but make your own life decisions. It's earth it's been thru worse and save me the global warming Bull. Just to turn the favor for corporate business man. Look when electricity came out AC and DC both tried to say there's was safer and better.
 
"and if ANY of the posters here drive a car, or use electricity,plastics, fertilizer, etc., etc., your well intended efforts to 'help the reef' are really nothing but a useless gesture that may make you feel a bit better, but accomplish nothing to mitigate the damage you're causing by your very lifestyle/mode of living, unfortunately"

Those who buy electric car you guys should look up how making batteries are more harmful to the environment ! And you have to replace tesla battery at 100,000miles that cost 10k that's an example all other battery operated cars are the same story.
China has little to noting like EPA control factories are not regulated yet we buy stuff from china and support that main problem.

I'm truly sick and tired of all of this there is nothing you can do but make your own life decisions. It's earth it's been thru worse and save me the global warming Bull. Just to turn the favor for corporate business man. Look when electricity came out AC and DC both tried to say there's was safer and better.

So just like most humans you say "F" it eh? I dont want a political debate so this is the last time ill comment here. Iam not even going to try to argue with all the ranting you did in your last post. It sounds to me like you get your info from fox news. If there is a chance, just a chance that pumping billions of tons of gas into the earth can harm us or our ONLY planet. If there is even a chance, why wouldent you try to make things better? Its pointless talking to humans, here is a prime example of how when a human desires something they will just listen to the opposition and take it on as their own cause. Just to have some justification for the things they do and are not prepared to give up. Dont worry bro no one is going to take your away fox news and corporate solutions. Well one day our mother will, but no one will be here to tell you I told you so. Its just a disgrace in my eyes.
 
So just like most humans you say "F" it eh? I dont want a political debate so this is the last time ill comment here. Iam not even going to try to argue with all the ranting you did in your last post. It sounds to me like you get your info from fox news. If there is a chance, just a chance that pumping billions of tons of gas into the earth can harm us or our ONLY planet. If there is even a chance, why wouldent you try to make things better? Its pointless talking to humans, here is a prime example of how when a human desires something they will just listen to the opposition and take it on as their own cause. Just to have some justification for the things they do and are not prepared to give up. Dont worry bro no one is going to take your away fox news and corporate solutions. Well one day our mother will, but no one will be here to tell you I told you so. Its just a disgrace in my eyes.

Well I am glad that you did not turn that into a political jab regarding your opinion regarding fox news and corporate America.

Just curious but just where and how did you get all of your reef equipment that you are enjoying right now?

Where did the electronic device come from that you use to surf the web?

Much to ponder.
 
Living in thailand (where alot of your tangs and lionfish....lol, come from) I have to say I did witness alot of what happens to a reef first hand due to over-exploitation and degradation. I firmly agree that any person from thailand would also back me up on what I'm about to post.

I am a very avid reef enthusiast. Theres just something about having a little piece of the sea in my room that really helps me sleep at night. That being said, I don't think anyone of us could lie to themselves and say what we do isn't physically destroying the natural reef. I have actually witnessed one of these collection trips and I can tell you it ain't pretty in the slightest. Thankfully no one actually uses cyanide nowadays here cus there are litterally too few reefs left to kill them for a few fish.

In the end, what we CAN do is offset our destruction, even if by a little bit. We don't have to all become conservationists or activists or anything. In the end, if you really wanna help, help by researching, being responsible, taking things seriously, supporting people who are doing the work of trying to maintain and preserve what I believe all reef keepers love, which is basically the ocean. (If you don't love the reef, why spend thousands of perfectly good money on some glass with water in it?).

On a side note, its very funny to read some comments on here. I was once like that too, but the truth is that we humans have the utmost destructive capability of numbers and intelligence that we can literally change our environment so much faster than it can adapt to us. Which is pretty much the basis of civilization. Yes, what some of you on here is definitly true, nature will definitly adapt to us, even the oceans. As a matter of fact, i have seen this too, in phuket. But the change is most likely not going to be pretty in your eyes. Alot of the shallow coastal reefs there are now literally what some of your tanks would look like without a phosphate reactor and overfeeding: over runned by algae.

The ocean will always be here, as you say: long after we're dead. But what alot of us are trying to do is preserve whats beautiful and whats ecologically and economically important, not only for us but many of us are now thinking about what we leave behind for our kids or grandkids (something very particular to human beings). So unless you really love eating tangs and sand gobies, Theres not alot to benefit us from killing off CORAL reefs.
Ps: there are now whole beaches in the tropics that have become macro algae dominated, feeding off water run-offs rich with phosphate and nitrITE)

Personally, i donate to help ecological preservations and spend alot of my time diving and collecting data for research

Edit: not alot of thais actually buy any of our own wild collected fish anymore since we can get them much cheaper from indonesia, so maybe in 50 years time, we'll be the only ones left with a reef?
 
i buy captive bred and frags when possible. or i'll buy the trade ins at the lfs.
i don't live near the ocean but we in lake michigan's shadow have our own waterborn issues to deal with
 
lol ok then

At least what i do creates an economic incentive to protect the reefs where the reefs are, and generates income for the communities local to the reefs.

Where as buying tank-bred stuff does absolutely nothing to the reefs good or bad.
 
I would like to see more Lionfish rodeos. It's amazing where this highly invasive species turns up. I have seen them caught in back rivers in coastal Georgia in less than three feet of water. Ihave seen them while snorkling in the Keys And Puerto Rico. What a mess our hobby has created by the release of just this one species .
 
The two biggest positive impacts we can have on the environment is to (1) not have children and (2) become vegans. Personally I relish the concept of #1 (but for more selfish reasons), #2 not so much. :lol:
 
At least what i do creates an economic incentive to protect the reefs where the reefs are, and generates income for the communities local to the reefs.

The problem with this logic is that unless there is effective regulation and enforcement some collectors will cheat the system for short-term economic gains. One could make a good argument that the shift in collection of reef fish for food to ornamentals has the potential to take pressure of of wild stocks in some locations and for some species. However, rare species or those which were never collected as food see increased pressure. Also, this logic doesn't apply at all to coral which is rarely collected as food. Though it is used for other purposes as previously mentioned.

You also have to consider that with increase income in the local community comes increased development, the number one impact on near-shore reefs. There is a reason the best reefs on the planet are far far away from human populations. ;)
 
The problem with this logic is that unless there is effective regulation and enforcement some collectors will cheat the system for short-term economic gains. One could make a good argument that the shift in collection of reef fish for food to ornamentals has the potential to take pressure of of wild stocks in some locations and for some species. However, rare species or those which were never collected as food see increased pressure. Also, this logic doesn't apply at all to coral which is rarely collected as food. Though it is used for other purposes as previously mentioned.

You also have to consider that with increase income in the local community comes increased development, the number one impact on near-shore reefs. There is a reason the best reefs on the planet are far far away from human populations. ;)

Well, I sure have considered what you say, but in areas with out regulation and enforcement people are always going to cheat the system, no matter if they collect ornamentals, or fish for food. So i don't see how this applys on the logic at all. Dynamite fishing for food or cyanide fishing for ornamentals are both equally bad.

What I'm hoping for is just to shift the balance slightly towards the sustainable side.

Sure there are bad sides to increased incomes but also good ones, mainly for human quality of life (which is great) but also for the environment such as lower birth rates, better waste management and that people aren't so desperate for money that they can afford to consider what consequences their actions have on the environment.

But as always reality is much to complex for it to be only one answer or solution to a problem and I'm not naive enough to think that buying wild collected livestock will save the reefs on its own. It will even create new problems in some cases. :)
 
One thing Ill never really get is how people are convinced that what we do has no affect on the reef. Oil spills, toxic dumping, non-biodegradable trash, toxic emissions from factories, nuclear fallout. I mean all of this stuff has only been around since the industrial revolution which wasnt that long ago when you consider our entire existence and yet in that small amount of time we have dramatically changed our environment. These arent skewed statistics coming from hippie scientists pushing the "liberal agenda". Its scientific fact and common sense that all these things we have been doing are directly affecting our oceans. Poison + fish = bad. If youre that confident that the oceans arent affected by the things we do then start dropping a little sulfuric acid, crude oil, or just whatever you have under the sink into your aquarium every so often and see what happens. Now that Im done ranting, heres some of the things I do:

-dont waste water
-try to buy captive bred specimens
-dont litter and dispose of waste properly
-try to avoid supporting companies with bad environmental records
 
This thread got me to thinking... I do have some practices to minimize my eco impact, but how impactful is my hobby from a baseline energy consumption perspective. I did a quick bit of research and found that sheet glass production consumes ~5.5 to 8 Giga joules per Mega gram. After doing conversions and some simple math, I calculated that my 75 gallon DT required ~350 cubic ft of natural gas just to produce the glass sheets. That consumption number does not include raw materials mining and refinement, transportation costs, plastics manufacture, etc... My tank is 13 years old, so its not constantly consuming that energy, but my fish keeping do-dad collection seems to be forever growing. When I imagine the worldwide manufacturing infrastructure required to support the hobby, I think I should quit in the best interests of the ecosystem. Now to my point, can we assume there is any best practice in our hobby that justifies the raw energy requirements of itself? Sure, science finds some support from the industry, but that is a byproduct of small incidence.
 
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Sure there are bad sides to increased incomes but also good ones, mainly for human quality of life (which is great) but also for the environment such as lower birth rates, better waste management and that people aren't so desperate for money that they can afford to consider what consequences their actions have on the environment.

On average individuals of developed nations consume 26 times more resources than individuals of undeveloped nations. Sure there are things we can do to help minimize our environmental impact but in the grand scheme of progress they're just drops in a bucket. Biggie said it best, "Mo money mo problems."
 
We sure do; but i still hope income in undeveloped countries increase, not to help the reefs but for the people who live there.
 
Ive done nothing, in fact ive harmed them bc i took rock and salt and other things from it and put it in my tank and thats the cold hard truth.

But id like to get into some volunteer work and im going to try too this summer.


But lets look at the real issue here. Its money vs the environment. Ive read someone on here say in the marshall islands they dredge reefs for airport expansion. Well people vote for that stuff so they save money. People want expansion because it saves them money. We say why doesnt the USA produce our own goods and gasses so itd be cheaper then we complain about destroying the environment and when a gas well shows up where a beautiful park used to be. Its one or the other people, you cant have both. If you want beautiful reefs and a beautiful earth then your wallet is going to suffer thats the way it is.

Its a losing battle because everyone wants to make money but only some people care about nature.
 
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