What do you do to help the reef?

[vitz]

for any mpa that shows success, there are at least 10 that are a travesty(ok, maybe 8, heh ).

(not only that, but scientists still argue among themselves as to what criteria to use and how to implement and interpret the data-per emails on coral-list).

areas that have responsible collection practices, or aquaculture, are by far a TINY minority of the sources used in this trade. the phillipines cyanide 'trade' alone probably dwarfs all small ops coral farms put together by orders of magnitude, and the resulting coral destruction might make all present attempts at coral conservation in that area a moot point (to say nothing of the terrestrial based run off pollution caused by more modern lifestyles.).

 

[addo]

MPA= marine protected area?

If so I know the mpa:s are no more than on paper in many parts of the world for a whole lot of different reasons. Just look at all the divemovies where the reef in the mpa is completley destroyed. Heck, even Sweden with all our recourses have a hard time keeping idiots from fishing in our protected waters.

This is mainly why i have lost faith in counting on peoples good will, to protect the environment, and trust more in economic incentives.

Regarding cyanide-fishing, I knew it is still a huge problem, but was under the impression that the situation had become much better in the ornamental industry since the 90s, because wholesalers and smaller import-businesses had found trustworthy exporters to buy from.
This impression was based on talking to hobbyists and people in the industry in my part of the world, so in combination with me having a hard time finding new sources regarding cyanid and the ornamental trade, I figured cyanide was almost only used in the live food trade.

Ok,so coral-list on NOOAs webpage? I don't think i I would have found that on my own, it seems like a good place to start looking for info.

 

[vitz]

in some areas the usage dropped - most of the places where it dropped, it rose again. other places where it was rarely if ever used then also started to see its use. afaik, bali, sri lanka, and pi are all very high risk for cyanide today. brazil maybe not so much, but all exporters there ship very sick fish-COATED w/either ich or flukes at the least. same for alot of african exporters (pers obs. circa '06-09).

treating fish landed from brazil and africa is pretty much a given for importers, and it's usually a mild 'nightmare' (i've seen queen angels, and flamebacks, so coated w/flukes the body of the fish upon landing was WHITE from a near contiguous layer of flukes, and when removed from the shipping bag, left a 'snowstorm' in the bag itself. on many occasions).

VERY few large ops, if any, give fish/inverts anything close to what i'd consider, at any rate, proper and healthy holding conditions/husbandry before export, and often the damage is done during the 1-2 week journey in a dugout canoe many fish take after being held in a submerged teeny jar for 3-4 days in the collection area the fisherman 'works'.

many fish are 3 weeks into starvation before even being shipped to country of import. THAT seems to me, based on what i've seen, to be as big, if not bigger, mortality cause than cyanide. (many fish tolerate small cyanide doses quite well, it kills coral on contact-the bigger issue w/cyanide is that, NOT what it does to fish-assuming 'correct' dosage).

i think alot of mortality attributed by many via anecdotal observation to cyanide over the years since this hobby really took off ('80's), wasn't. more likely 'user error' and advanced starvation that caused organ (liver) damage advanced enough as to make the fish un recoverable.

 

[billsreef]

Back in the 80's there were some symptoms that we all thought were from cyanide exposure. Later some researchers (the same ones that originally thought those symptoms were from the cyanide) discovered that those symptoms actually were a result of prolonged starvation in excess of 2 weeks, not the cyanide. It turned out any fish that were going die from the cyanide exposure wouldn't even make it as far as the hobbyist. The biggest issue from cyanide is the short term death of many of the fish exposed at the collection point and the damage done to the reef exposed to the cyanide. As for cyanide detection tests to check for exposure to cyanide at the point of import into the US or Europe, those tests just aren't reliable...not to mention they also require the death of the fish to be tested. Probably the biggest reason you're not finding anything new is that there is sadly nothing new on the cyanide front. It's still prevalent in some localities, just talked about less. Many of the most vocal on the front lines are long since burned out from hitting their heads on that brick wall, as well as having other life issues sideline some of them.

On the MPA idea, if well implemented with sound science, they can be effective. Problem is that politics often gets in the way. It can be hard to get all involved to agree to protecting idea fish habitat, as it also often the ideal fishing area. Spawning aggregations are a prime example. You would think it's a no brainer to leave a well known spawning aggregation alone in order to ensure maximum reproduction potential...and more fish to catch later. But no, it's quite an uphill battle despite the obvious long term benefits.

 

[Reeferz412]

I disagree Justinlee. Vitz is a very well informed hobbyist and I have learned quite a bit from him. Only reason some threads get locked is because he says what no one wants to hear and hence why a lot of discussions go sour. Name-calling really isn't going to get this thread anywhere and has nothing to do with the topic. As a new member you are not starting on the right foot calling other members out and calling people ignorant.

 

[power boat jim]

I disagree Justinlee. Vitz is a very well informed hobbyist and I have learned quite a bit from him. Only reason some threads get locked is because he says what no one wants to hear and hence why a lot of discussions go sour. Name-calling really isn't going to get this thread anywhere and has nothing to do with the topic. As a new member you are not starting on the right foot calling other members out and calling people ignorant.

Its very possible ole Justin has had more then one go round on this forum and he has been made aware of the rules under several different incarnations.

 

[deadlycombo82]

This is a sad fact. I like to hope one day they will add coral to the endangered species list if they haven't already and try to really protect the reefs against damage"¦.but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[ifarmer]

we have less than a billion years to enjoy the surface of our planet before it becomes inhospitable. Because our SUN is heating up

 

[r-balljunkie]

What are things that we can do to protect reefs?

I don't throw anchors on coral formations, always aim for open sand patches, or tie off on a buoy.

Our local dive club ( www.kwajaleinscubaclub.com ) conducts clean up dive excursions a few times a year.

We practice good diving techniques, don't drag equipment all over the reef.

We self police ourselves out here. if someone catches you collecting a coral to dry out and use as an ashtray, you will be chastised. if you collect a live cowry because its shell is pretty, you will be chastised. if you kill a shark out here for sport or fun, we'll kill you.

I make sure environmental problems are remedied immediately in my work place. if its within my power, i get potential spills and releases addressed and fixed.

I net catch my own fish. im not sure thats being responsible...i dont have a choice.

I used to be a city slicker, now three years + into it....i'm a transplanted islander. Your perspective changes when you actually live on the reef and your not just speculating about whats going on.

The ocean is life, respect it.


anywho.....thats what i do.

C

 

[Stylaster]

I personally am setting up a local reef restoration project in Feb 2014 for a resort in Fiji. We are creating a coral farm (same as you would for mariculture to aquarium trade) The coral pieces that are used are broken off pieces that are picked up from the sand bed. The resorts guests and staff will be educated about the farm, be able to help maintain it and once the corals grow out will be transplanted back onto destroyed areas of reef. Then the process will start over again with more cuttings. Im hoping to get more resorts to go along with this idea and help rebuild the reefs in their local area and raise awareness of how fragile the reefs really are.

 

[atreis]

for any mpa that shows success, there are at least 10 that are a travesty(ok, maybe 8, heh ).

References, please.

(not only that, but scientists still argue among themselves as to what criteria to use and how to implement and interpret the data-per emails on coral-list).

This is just the nature of science. If they stop arguing it's because they're no longer actively researching, and there's no more new science happening.

It appears that you would prefer to use the above statement as an excuse for doing nothing. (Hmm... Phixer comes to mind...)

areas that have responsible collection practices, or aquaculture, are by far a TINY minority of the sources used in this trade. the phillipines cyanide 'trade' alone probably dwarfs all small ops coral farms put together by orders of magnitude, and the resulting coral destruction might make all present attempts at coral conservation in that area a moot point (to say nothing of the terrestrial based run off pollution caused by more modern lifestyles.).

See your own previous comments about wild-caught fish being better than captive-breeding. The above statement directly contradicts your previous position.

Cyanide is used to collect fish, not coral. Dynamite can be (and has been) used for both.

It's never too late to start conservations efforts.

 

[vitz]

References, please.



This is just the nature of science. If they stop arguing it's because they're no longer actively researching, and there's no more new science happening.

It appears that you would prefer to use the above statement as an excuse for doing nothing. (Hmm... Phixer comes to mind...)



See your own previous comments about wild-caught fish being better than captive-breeding. The above statement directly contradicts your previous position.

Cyanide is used to collect fish, not coral. Dynamite can be (and has been) used for both.

It's never too late to start conservations efforts.

i agree-as long as those efforts actually accomplish something. a great many don't.

i don't recall ever asserting that catching wild is superior to aquacultured or captive prop. -i've been a VERY vocal proponent of tank raised/aquacultured stock since day one. i was a commercial polyaquaculture food fish farmer for 3 yrs., even, heh. in every lfs i ever werked in, i tried to bring in as much ora (and other prop ops) stock in as possible.

the point *i* thought i presented is that objectively, us pulling anything (from the reef) is, AS AN ACTION, no different than any other apex predator, with 2 caveats:

that we can, and do, overstep the natural limits (read: removal rates) imposed on the apex predators of/within that system, and...

that our pulling sidesteps the immediate return of the energy of that organism back to its local/immediate environment

those can certainly have major consequences, if the order of magnitude is sufficient-it's a no brainer, not subject for debate, afaic

as for links, i can't provide them for you-not for lack of wanting,-i'm relying on both pers observation and talk/communication i've observed or participated in w/in the industry. part of which, are discussions in rdo's 'industry behind the hobby' forum, for one, and coral-list, for another. part of which are pers.exp. and/or pers. discussions w/ retailers and whoresalers/importers.

it's very difficult to get objective data OTHER than observations simply due to the nefarious nature and environment of the cyanide loop and it's culture. i'll state w/ absolute confidence again that its use hasn't dropped a drop, worldwide, regardless. and i'm a BIG fan of presentable data, too.

the arguing among scientists that *i'm* referring to is far more the result of a competition for grant money nature. it's a huge issue that interferes w/the scientific community being able to get together to agree on the simplest of things, for one, and also causes some org to find methods that will skew results automatically in favor of 'their' system so it looks more attractive to benefactors/charities.

crap, just the issue on how to do a proper population assessment w/ transects causes an uproar, re: which transect method is 'correct', on the list server, from time to time, for those very reasons.

 

[billsreef]

that our pulling sidesteps the immediate return of the energy of that organism back to its local/immediate environment

Now there is an interesting concept that doesn't get talked about much. Interestingly when you look at apex predators (i.e. sharks), healthy ecosystems have healthy apex predator populations. Got to have a healthy energy flow (food chain) to support those top predators. Start pulling out the lower parts of that food chain, and it's like pulling the legs out from under a chair. Things start collapsing.

crap, just the issue on how to do a proper population assessment w/ transects causes an uproar, re: which transect method is 'correct', on the list server, from time to time, for those very reasons.

Those can be indeed interesting. The listservs are much like internet forums, you always a get few that will blindly argue their pet method/theory/cause, etc. The good researchers admit and even talk about the limitations of the various methods. Thankfully I've had the pleasure of working mostly with the goods ones.

 

[ska d]

if the number crunchers are correct then say good bye to just about everything else as well. but lately there have been more and more articles and studies that show. basically, we dont have a clue. reefs are recoverring from bleaching events in some parts faster than scientists ever predicted. as well as other discoveries of how coral reefs are dealing with our climate change. i say our because i think we will be gone long before these creatures that have been on this earth a lot longer than we have. its pretty naive of us to think that these fragile organisms that have evolved over millions of years dont have any defense mechanisms. i say this very tongue and cheek, but i dont think we should do anything to save the reefs. nature will take care of itself like it always has, flawlessly. thats not to say we shouldnt be responsible.

 

[sonoma2nv]

here in va we add alot to the reefs not tropical but a start usualy cinderblocks or whole ships are sunk

 

[puffster]

Sorry people, but I think the title of the thread was, "What are you doing to save the reef." I have seen only a few people answer this question. Myself, I am in my second year of writing a book about the ocean, for young readers. It only has a few more chapters to go, then I can publish. From my experience as a writer and hobbyist, there is so much to be learned from the ocean and one another, as we as hobbyist, unlock reef secrets that scientist can only imagine. So, What is everyone else actually doing to make a difference?
I would like to hear what you are doing to make a difference. We may each only have a spoon......but with each spoon the bucket gets filled up.

Ernie

 

[igot2gats]

this hobby is anything BUT responsible to reefs, and the only 'responsible reefkeeping i can come up with is making sure one's tank stays healthy) are ones that they THINK accomplish something from the actions they take, only to find out when researching that action that it actually accomplishes very little to nothing, and is more a 'feely goody' panacea to alleviate some form of guilt.

How about buying captive bred and/or breeding fish? Or how about buying fragged corals?

I understand your point: we are taking from the oceans. But there are actual ways of helping the reefs out besides maintaining a healthy reef.

 

[alton]

I buy corals and fish from the people who own the reef. And with that money they feed there family's. Without me and many others the reef is doomed. So many reef's have been demolished by pollution, run off, and many other man made things.

 

[living_waters]

I frag my corals and sell or give away

 

[raybyrne67]

I use only dry reefsaver type rock,and aquacultured corals.