What ever happened UG filters?

Paul B

Premium Member
What happened to under gravel filters?

Tropical fish keeping in the US started just after WW2 as people were coming back into civilian life and started looking for a hobby.
Freshwater fish were cheap and available as "toy" fish and sold in toy stores.
The filtration on those early tanks were normally an air powered hang on back filter or an in tank, air powered box filter filled with fiberglass floss (nasty stuff). The bottom of the tank used gravel, sometimes colored gravel and under that was an under gravel filter.
The purpose of the UG filter was to remove particles from the water and augment the fiberglass floss in the box filters. They worked well and we were happy with our fresh water tanks and they gradually became more technical and the fish varieties grew.


Then in 1971 saltwater fish were imported into the US and many people, myself included just couldn't resist setting up a salt tank.
We already had fresh water tanks, filters, air pumps and the old stand by, an undegravel filter.
If it worked in fresh water it should also work in saltwater, right?

So we set up our salt water tank by first installing an under gravel filter, then adding crushed coral or dolomite. The UG filter was operated with an airstone that pulled water up through the tubes there by forcing water to go through the gravel.
The device operated as a mechanical filter and trapped all the nasty things that we didn't want in our tank. We never realized that after you trap all that stuff, it stays there and rots. We didn't realize that it is the bacteria that is supposed to eliminate the wastes and not the gravel.
Our tanks ran well for about a year, then something happened that we could not understand. They were crashing, the fish were full of disease and in some cases the water stunk. When we stirred the gravel, it really stunk which forced us to remove everything from the tank, clean it, change the water and buy new fish.
Then in the late 70s and 80s other systems started to become common such as wet drys, Jaubert, bare bottom etc. and UG filters were removed and thrown out with the garbage never to be seen again.
In my opinion, that was a mistake and I still use mine. The problem was not the under gravel filter, but the way we used it. The device was designed to work a specific way in freshwater and needed to be modified to run in a salt tank.
The modification is simple, it just involves running it in reverse and slowing it down a bit.
We also need to filter or at least strain the water entering it. Most UG filters use two, three or four uplift tubes and it is complicated to pump water down all those tubes so I remidied that problem by piping all the tubes together in a single manifold where water is pumped into after having gone through a sponge filter. This sponge removes any larger pieces of detritus or food that would get pumped under the gravel. Of course this will not remove all the particles but will greatly help with the maintenance of the device.
This system actually needs some detritus to run correctly and will not work until some time has passed. Bacteria needs time to colonize the surfaces of the gravel and the detritus that will eventually form between the grains of gravel will slow down the flow of water creating places where anerobic bacteria will grow.
It will never achieve the nitrate reducing capabilities of a DSB but the fact that it can be maintained insures that it can last forever. The only maintenance needed is to occasionally rinse the sponge filter and once or twice a year stir up the gravel where you can, with a canister filter.
Noting will run forever without maintenance and I feel that this hour or two of maintenance a year is not that overwhelming.
The system is also very forgiving and in the 42 years that mine has been operating my power has gone out quite a few times, sometimes for days and there has never been a problem. I once had a very large carpet anemone die and decompose sending pieces of rotting anemone all over the tank, but nothing happened.
I used to have an urchin collection business and one time I had to many urchins so I put 24 of them in my reef where they all spawned at the same time. The water looked like Half and Half, the five gallon bucket I have under my skimmer that collects the effluent overflowed and I guess about 8 gallons of water was removed from the tank,
and still, after I cleared the water with a diatom filter, nothing happened.
The tank houses SPS and LPS corals along with three pairs of spawning fish one of which is a 19 year old fireclown.
The tank has never crashed and has never been emptied except once in 1979 when I moved to a new house and transfered everything into the tank in my new home.
The key is to run the device slowly. The slower it is run, the less detritus will be trapped and the longer it will run without maintenance. My tank is 100 gallons and I pump about 500 GPH into the manifold where it equally seperates the water to flow down each tube and under the gravel.

I am certainly not trying to convince anyone to use an UG filter. My purpose is just to educate about a device that used to be the backbone of the hobby.

I use this old green HOB filter container as my manifold where the 3 tubes come out of the bottom and travel to the UG filter plates under the gravel. Water is pumped into the manifold through that tube on the left.

UGfilter002.jpg
 
i ran a ugf and than later a reverse ugf in the early 80's on both salt and fresh water tanks with success, but later found systems that worked better. maybe its time you give up the ugf too?
 
Paul,

When I kept African cichlids, I used an reverse flow ugf with Penguin 1150 power heads and reverse flow sponge kits. There would be a buildup of very fine "mud" of detritus under the plates whenever I had to move the tank (3 different times). And this was after doing a 2-3 times a year of siphoning the gravel with a python. I would siphon with the python until I saw nothing rise up the the tube.

Do you ever find this?
 
Steam engines used to be really common, too :)
That's not particularly helpful. Unless there is a clear reason - that you did not state - why not using an undergravel is just as silly as using a steam engine when internal combustion has so many advantages...

Paul happens to run what could be the longest running reef tank in existence. And it has an undergravel filter. IMO, given his profoundly long term success vs. the mainstream reef keeping practice that has abandoned undergravels, his question is one worth serious consideration.
 
but later found systems that worked better. maybe its time you give up the ugf too?

What is the system you have found that works better?

And this was after doing a 2-3 times a year of siphoning the gravel with a python. I would siphon with the python until I saw nothing rise up the the tube.

Do you ever find this?
There is a little fine mud under the plates that I can see from under the tank, but nothing of concern as it has been there for many years.
I only lifted the plates 3 in 42 years and that was mostly out of curiosity.
Once was when I moved in 1979

Steam engines used to be really common, too

Yes they were, and they never broke and are still used all over the world. Our nuclear submarines are run with steam, most of our electricity in the US is generated with steam.
Steam use evolved, it was not eliminated.

As I mentioned, I am not trying to get anyone to install a reverse UG filter in their tanks, I like having the oldest tank in the US. By the way, how old are the tanks some of you use that have a "better" system? I am just curious. :D
 
i agree with everything except 1971...thats when i graduated high school and had salt tanks before that ...ed's aquarium in lynbrook and gardiners village in west hempstead had marine fish in the late 60's... i remember bicycling to an importer in valley stream and got my license in 70. my current tank has a wet/dry and reverse flow undergravel...i refer to it as my state of the art 1985 aquarium
 
Sounds like you and Paul are about to start a bromance. :)

I think the quality of most undergravel filters would keep me from putting them in my reef. Every one I ever used for freshwater was very delicate and ended up broken.
 
I've actually been thinking about trying a Paul-style RUGF tank in a stock 55g I've got in the garage. What sort of substrate are you using over it Paul, what grain size, and how deep?

And steam engines occasionally exploded. Hopefully the RUGF doesn't. :)
 
Last edited:
It's funny but UGF were used extensively in FW tanks for years and then have since fallen out of favor but is now making a somewhat comeback with FW dwarf shrimp keepers. I am using a UGF for a sulawesi shrimp tank that is connected to a cannister. Works fine and these delicate shrimp are breeding quite well. Of course I have to say that its only been running for a year or so.
 
ed's aquarium in lynbrook and gardiners village in west hempstead had marine fish in the late 60's... i remember bicycling to an importer in valley stream and got my license in 70. my current tank has a wet/dry and reverse flow undergravel...i refer to it as my state of the art 1985 aquarium

Hello fellow Long Islander. My tank actually came from Eds Aquarium in Lynbrook. I remember his selling salt water fish but I didn't know he had them in the 60s. I got back from Nam in 1971 and found that Aquarium Stock Company which was the largest aquarium in NY (I think) had salt. If I had knows Eds also had them, I would have gone there as it was closer to me than Manhattan and easier to get to.

And steam engines occasionally exploded. Hopefully the RUGF doesn't.

Steam engines never blew up, it was the boilers that blew up as steel in those days was not that great and they had no way of knowing how strong or brittle the steel was until it blew up.

My UG filter has not blown up yet, but the day is young.

What sort of substrate are you using over it Paul, what grain size, and how deep?

I use dolomite as that was available when I set up the tank, now I would most likely have to use crushed coral if I could not get dolomite. It is about 2" deep and this is a picture of the grain size.
Gobieggs014.jpg
 
they got clogged IMHO.

there are different theories of keeping a reef tank, one is ultra low nutritions, glowing SPS and low po4 and no3.

another is more "natural" method like Paul talks about all the time, food available everywhere in form of live organisms, some controlled algae, more LPS softy and basically corals that sway in current, like sea fans and such.

these are different types of set ups. UG filter is not appropriate in first set up, as it accumulated stuff and gets clogged ... and for example carbon dosing is not suitable for second type, as you want algae and other organisms take up the nutritions.

I dont think they are out, they just have their own place in the hobby, just like anything else :)

JMHO :)
 
another is more "natural" method like Paul talks about all the time,

Yes, I do like natural with live food and not to clean. But a properly functioning reverse UG filter should not clog. Mine never has but if it is run normally and not in reverse, it will clog badly. If mine started to clog I would imagine the preasure from the pumps would clear it. As I said, I want some detritus in there and although there is none visable in my tank, I never vacuum the substrait but I do stir it up once or twice a year and every ten years or so, I stir it up better with a diatom filter. I am not sure if this is needed but so far I have done that I think three times and that was times when I wanted to drastically change the aquascape. You get tired with the same set up after so many years and while I have many of the rocks out anyway, I stir everything up and suck out any detritus. Occasionally I will either collect or build a large rock that I want to add and to do that I have to remove other rocks, those times also allow me to stir things up. My gravel is teeming with worms, amphipiods and copepods that I depend on to feed my smaller fish and breeding mandarins. The UG filter allows water to flow through the gravel providing living places for these animals all the way through to the bottom glass. The space under the UG plates is loaded with tiny tube worms that I can see through the bottom. Each one is a tiny filter.

Algae027.jpg
 
That's not particularly helpful. Unless there is a clear reason - that you did not state - why not using an undergravel is just as silly as using a steam engine when internal combustion has so many advantages...

Paul happens to run what could be the longest running reef tank in existence. And it has an undergravel filter. IMO, given his profoundly long term success vs. the mainstream reef keeping practice that has abandoned undergravels, his question is one worth serious consideration.

Paul said:
Yes they were, and they never broke and are still used all over the world. Our nuclear submarines are run with steam, most of our electricity in the US is generated with steam.
Steam use evolved, it was not eliminated.

As I mentioned, I am not trying to get anyone to install a reverse UG filter in their tanks, I like having the oldest tank in the US. By the way, how old are the tanks some of you use that have a "better" system? I am just curious.

Didn't mean to sound malicious, just poke a little good-natured fun at the older technique. I think a steam locomotive is actually a fine analogy, for several of the reasons Paul points out. It's a robust, simple and safe workhorse technology that could be used on a broad scale and of which there are plenty of working examples even over 100 years old. They've disappeared from common use despite being quite successful because the design, manufacture and operation of other designs became a bit cheaper, especially with the appearance of a global oil infrastructure. Steam engines didn't so much have disadvantages so much as new technology was more economical.

I personally prefer using high-flow pumps to keep detritus entrained in the water column where it can be removed by a filter sock that's easily swapped in seconds to export the material before it rots too much. The obvious downside to this system is the cost of powerheads, but lower cost options are starting to appear. While the general technique hasn't existed for thirty years, there are certainly enough examples of stable and successful tanks that are 10+ years old and I can't think of any reason to believe that such a tank would suddenly crash. If I were to go one step further I'd suggest that this philosophy of tank design has directly enabled what some have called the "golden age of reefing" where SPS coral that only a few years ago were considered unkeepable in "natural" tanks now grow like weeds and are traded like baseball cards.

I think the bottom line is you have a remarkable feel for your tank and can anticipate and prevent a lot of issues that others might experience with a similar design. Clearly a reverse undergravel filter can be successful, but the question is if we recommended it to a thousand new hobbyists, what percentage of them would have the outcomes they hoped for compared to using the modern techniques? Isn't the reason the technique fell out of favor is that a whole bunch of people tried both and had better outcomes after switching? Someone on the chemistry forum recently told a newbie that you're like Evel Knievel: "There are some things that he can do on his bike that you can't." I've read and enjoyed just about every page of every one of your tank threads and absolutely adore knowing that your tank exists and succeeds as you built it, but the design just isn't best for me and I believe most others, too. In the same way, I ride on any operating steam locomotive I can find, but if I needed to get to Washington tomorrow I'd take the Acella :)
 
Back
Top