What makes a clown go in a anemone?
- Thread starter Putty
- Start date
elegance coral
They call me EC
Go to this link. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...6LXPBg&usg=AFQjCNGVwkzqlqgEWJsIlckuvq_WnfjY_Q
Click on the species of anemone or clown that you want to keep. This will tell you what their natural symbiotic partner is. If you provide a clown with it's natural host, it will go into it.
Click on the species of anemone or clown that you want to keep. This will tell you what their natural symbiotic partner is. If you provide a clown with it's natural host, it will go into it.
It is believed by some that part of the attraction of the anemone are chemicals it secretes that clownfish are attracted to. These include tyramine and tryptamine. My own speculation may be the such chemicals may be released primarily from the mouth, explaining why clownfish often focus on the mouth and even enter it sometimes. These chemicals may be different for different species.
M Woodhill
New member
i guess it is instinct
they prefer their natural host
i tried occ and percula with 4 rbta's and all attempts failed
besides instinct, sometimes u need luck from above--ive seen dozens of pix showin the combo of occ's and rbta's
Putty
New member
rssjsb
New member
I'm not sure what you mean. I see what look like two condylactus anemones in your pictures. Is there a third? These are not hosting anemones and may actually eat clowns.
Tomato clowns usually pair readily with a bubble tip, but I would not add one to your tank while those condys are still there. You're likely to have some trouble - either chemical (the bubble tip just won't ever settle and will wander around until it ends up in a power head or intake) or physical (one of the anemones will move toward and into the other) - in a tank that size.
Putty
New member
You're confusing me...reason I say that is because I had a tomato clown. I got it from a guy on here in fact. He has a pink tip anemone. That clown was in it like crazy. I tried to get the anemone from him, but it was spoken for. He told me where he got it..I went and bought 3. That's the one you see, so that's what I meant...I have three of those. Since, then, I got rid of that clown and replaced it with a mating pair. I have been wondering why those clowns stay clear, but the one I had used to love the one it's previous owner had....like I now have.
Are you saying those two kinds of anemones cannot live together? One will kill the other? I'm not worried about the powerheads..I can move them.
Are you saying those two kinds of anemones cannot live together? One will kill the other? I'm not worried about the powerheads..I can move them.
jt_milstead
New member
This statement isnt completely true. Tank raised clowns do go into nems, but it usually takes much longer. These clowns are tank bred SA Onyx that are hosted by a GBTA.
rssjsb
New member
Sorry - not trying to confuse. There are no clownfish in the Atlantic where condys are collected, so they are not really host anemones. Sometimes a clown will develop that relationship with one, but most won't. So your friend may have had a clown that succeeded in acclimating itself to a condy, but that doesn't mean other clowns will. The clowns may ignore the nem, but sometimes they'll attempt it and be stung to death or eaten. I'm guessing that's why your clowns have resisted. Tomatoes are usually not hard to pair with a nem.
As I said, nothing is certain. However, generally speaking it's difficult to maintain multiple species of anemone in the same tank, especially a small one. They can't get away from the chemical defenses mounted by other anemones, which means that the new anemone may never settle into a spot and may eventually weaken and die. Sometimes the stronger animal will "chase" the other one and attack it physically. Even if they don't, the weaker anemone just won't do well.
Unless the anemone crawls into it in the middle of the night. Or detaches and floats around the tank in a last ditch effort to get away from it's unfriendly neighbors and gets sucked in. There are many many posts on here from people who have been greeted in the morning by an anemone stuck in a powerhead.
Bottom line, if you want to try a BTA, which is the natural host for your tomatoes, and give your clowns and the new anemone the best possible chance at success, get rid of the condys first.
Rtreef and jtmilstead, both of you make incorrect statements based on repeated observations I've made. It makes absolutely NO difference whether a clownfish is captive bred or wild caught in terms of it's willingness to be hosted. If a natural host is provided, the clownfish will always (at least every time in my case with multiple species) go to its host. Furthermore, I've observed captive bred clownfish immediately go to their natural host even though they haven't ever likely seen a sea anemone.
My tank raised ocellaris clowns who had never seen a gigantea anemone before had no problem quickly acclimating to mine. I do not buy that tank raising makes any difference, at least for that species and anemone.
njudson
New member
A few weeks back I added a Mag to my tank and my clowns (ocellaris) were acting strange as soon as it hit the water and jumped right in about half an hour later. Seemed to me like a chemical / pheromone type reaction.
M Woodhill
New member
there's no difference between tank bred and wild caught when it comes to choosin where to live
all the occ's and perc's i bought r tank bred but this never held'em back from jumpin into a gig/mag or encouraged'em to host an rbta
elegance coral
They call me EC
I keep wild caught and captive bread, and have been doing so for a very long time. IMHO, there is absolutely a difference. Even if I had never kept a clown, my understanding of animal behavior, would tell me that there should be a difference. You simply can not alter an animals environment, to the degree we do with CB clowns, especially during the developmental stage of life, and expect it to have no effect on the animals behavior.
bues0022
New member
IME, I have never had difficulties with getting a CB fish to accept a natural host either. If it truly is an instinctual and not a learned trait, then it cannot matter where the fish is born/raised. I think most agree that an clownfish taking on an anemone is an instinctual matter (hence why natural fish/nem combos are important - if it were learned the likelihood is higher they would accept any anemone much the way they will host any sort of inanimate object in the tank). If it were a learned trait, there should be a much clearer delineation between CB and wild fish with accepting host nems, not the much more skewed dataset as shown above. There are well respected people who have experienced both sides. I would argue, that if the origins did make a difference, you could put a clownfish in a tank with a natural host, and from the interactions be able to tell if it were wild or CB. I've never heard of anyone being able to do this. I sometimes wonder if those who seem to have experienced "CB clownfish not taking to nems like wild ones" are putting a unintentional biased to their observations. If I test drive five red cars that are all much faster than the blue cars, I could conclude that red cars are faster than blue - meanwhile skipping over the fact that all the red cars were Corvette's and the blue cars were Pinto's.
It is a tricky thing attempting to match observations with causes - especially when dealing with animals that each can have their own individual personality. It makes establishing cause/effect relationships very difficult. In this case, however, I very much do believe there exists a lack of clear evidence to support the claim that a wild caught clownfish will take a host nem much more readily than a CB fish.
(One experience - A three month old Clarkii. Once acclimated, I released if from my hand into the tank. Literally the first movement it made was directly into a nearby RBTA. Raised in a breeder tank, released into a full reef, and the nem was it's first choice of home. Granted it could be a coincidence, but it would support evidence to disprove the null hypothesis that a wild fish takes a host quicker).
It is a tricky thing attempting to match observations with causes - especially when dealing with animals that each can have their own individual personality. It makes establishing cause/effect relationships very difficult. In this case, however, I very much do believe there exists a lack of clear evidence to support the claim that a wild caught clownfish will take a host nem much more readily than a CB fish.
(One experience - A three month old Clarkii. Once acclimated, I released if from my hand into the tank. Literally the first movement it made was directly into a nearby RBTA. Raised in a breeder tank, released into a full reef, and the nem was it's first choice of home. Granted it could be a coincidence, but it would support evidence to disprove the null hypothesis that a wild fish takes a host quicker).
bues0022
New member
EC - while I can understand your thoughts about altering an animals behavior through a wildly different method of being raised, then how could this explain stocked fish? Each year, thousands (if not millions) of captive raised fish (salmon, trout, bass, northern, panfish, musky, the list goes on) are raised by the Fish and Wildlife department and released into the streams and rivers around the country. There is a portion of die-off (expected since the entire batch is raised to a size where in the wild many would have been picked off by predators), but there is no arguing the effectiveness of the stocking program. If the origins of each fish mattered, the program would not work, as the behavior of the released fish would be altered to a state where they would not live and procreate in the wild (not seeking out shelter, waiting for food to be fed rather than catching their own, not knowing where/how to spawn).
IME, I have never had difficulties with getting a CB fish to accept a natural host either. If it truly is an instinctual and not a learned trait, then it cannot matter where the fish is born/raised. I think most agree that an clownfish taking on an anemone is an instinctual matter (hence why natural fish/nem combos are important - if it were learned the likelihood is higher they would accept any anemone much the way they will host any sort of inanimate object in the tank). Furthermore, fish have not been proven to have a thought logical based thought process capable of thinking and reasoning. They are instinctual animals which respond to external stimuli the way their genetics have coded them. If it were a learned trait, there should be a much clearer delineation between CB and wild fish with accepting host nems, not the much more skewed dataset as shown above. There are well respected people who have experienced both sides. I would argue, that if the origins did make a difference, you could put a clownfish in a tank with a natural host, and from the interactions be able to tell if it were wild or CB. I've never heard of anyone being able to do this. I sometimes wonder if those who seem to have experienced "CB clownfish not taking to nems like wild ones" are putting a unintentional biased to their observations. If I test drive five red cars that are all much faster than the blue cars, I could conclude that red cars are faster than blue - meanwhile skipping over the fact that all the red cars were Corvette's and the blue cars were Pinto's.
It is a tricky thing attempting to match observations with causes - especially when dealing with animals that each can have their own individual personality. It makes establishing cause/effect relationships very difficult. In this case, however, I very much do believe there exists a lack of clear evidence to support the claim that a wild caught clownfish will take a host nem much more readily than a CB fish.
(One experience - A three month old Clarkii. Once acclimated, I released if from my hand into the tank. Literally the first movement it made was directly into a nearby RBTA. Raised in a breeder tank, released into a full reef, and the nem was it's first choice of home. Granted it could be a coincidence, but it would support evidence to disprove the null hypothesis that a wild fish takes a host quicker).
IME, I have never had difficulties with getting a CB fish to accept a natural host either. If it truly is an instinctual and not a learned trait, then it cannot matter where the fish is born/raised. I think most agree that an clownfish taking on an anemone is an instinctual matter (hence why natural fish/nem combos are important - if it were learned the likelihood is higher they would accept any anemone much the way they will host any sort of inanimate object in the tank). Furthermore, fish have not been proven to have a thought logical based thought process capable of thinking and reasoning. They are instinctual animals which respond to external stimuli the way their genetics have coded them. If it were a learned trait, there should be a much clearer delineation between CB and wild fish with accepting host nems, not the much more skewed dataset as shown above. There are well respected people who have experienced both sides. I would argue, that if the origins did make a difference, you could put a clownfish in a tank with a natural host, and from the interactions be able to tell if it were wild or CB. I've never heard of anyone being able to do this. I sometimes wonder if those who seem to have experienced "CB clownfish not taking to nems like wild ones" are putting a unintentional biased to their observations. If I test drive five red cars that are all much faster than the blue cars, I could conclude that red cars are faster than blue - meanwhile skipping over the fact that all the red cars were Corvette's and the blue cars were Pinto's.
It is a tricky thing attempting to match observations with causes - especially when dealing with animals that each can have their own individual personality. It makes establishing cause/effect relationships very difficult. In this case, however, I very much do believe there exists a lack of clear evidence to support the claim that a wild caught clownfish will take a host nem much more readily than a CB fish.
(One experience - A three month old Clarkii. Once acclimated, I released if from my hand into the tank. Literally the first movement it made was directly into a nearby RBTA. Raised in a breeder tank, released into a full reef, and the nem was it's first choice of home. Granted it could be a coincidence, but it would support evidence to disprove the null hypothesis that a wild fish takes a host quicker).
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