What would you do?

[sphinx105]

I had Christmas in August!!

Over the weekend my wife and I went to several LFS’s in our area; that covers a lot of ground considering we live about 50 miles from nowhere in central Alabama. Anyway, we were looking for a few more pieces of live rock to finish out our 35 hex now that we have the new lights working.

One of our favorite stores was closing down their retail business and was having a close-out sale. There was only one large tank left, an All Glass 90 gallon with overflow. After some thoughts and discussion, my lovely wife agreed to buy the new tank and let me place it in the living room! We also got about 75 lbs of live rock from the display tanks in the store at a good price too.

Now for the fun part, while the live rock is setting a couple of old aquariums in the garage, I have got to build a stand, hood, lighting, sump, and all the rest of the goodies. I was working (slowly) on setting up a 55 gallon, but now with the new 90 gallon setting in the garage, the 55 has been demoted to sump duty and all the 55 plans and some parts have been scrubbed.

My question to the Do-It-Yourself crowd is - If you were setting this thank up what would you do?

Most of the stand, lighting, sump, etc will have to be home made because of cost and I love to build stuff. What would you build and what would you buy?

Some of my thoughts:

Stand â€"œ 2x4 with ¾ oak sheeting, no center brace, removable panels on the ends to get the sump in. I want this to be at least 40” tall so I see in with out bending over.

Lighting â€"œ T5’s or Metal Halides - What wattage? How many? Remote ballast or put them in the hood?

Cooling â€"œ I can direct vent this to the outside, any one done this? Fan controllers any suggestions? Fans over the sump?

Heating â€"œ two heaters running independently in the sump, with the temp probes in main tank.

Circulation â€"œ the overflow has two drilled holes, use both for drains and bring the returns over the back? I have Mag 9.5 to use as the return pump, will this be enough or too much.

Skimmer â€"œ size? Recommendations? This is one of those make of buy decisions. I don’t mind making, but plumbing is my worst DIY skill.

Auto top-off â€"œ I have an RO/DI unit in the garage about 80 feet away from the tank location, should I plumb a ¼ line to the tank for top-off.?

Any and all comments and suggestion would be appreciated.

I will try to set-up a build log to share.

Here is the empty tank in the garage.

 

[jefathome]

Without a doubt, build the stand and hood.
I made a nice Oak stand with detailed trim, and a very nice stain/poly job and it cost way less than the pine stands that they have in the store. Also, b/c I built it myself, I was able to get much better functionality out of it. Not only does the front panel lift up for feeding and day to day maint. I also designed it so that the top has hinges in teh back, so I can lift that right up to work on the lights, or if I need to take out large items near the back.
I was also able to put in as many fans as I wanted, where I wanted.

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

Re: What would you do?

I built the stand for my 90 myself. No 2x4's, just plywood. I trust it with my tank


Lighting? If the canopy is built right, the ballasts can go in the canopy. I have mine built that way so that I have fewer wires running up to the canopy. Simply a single feed line running up and thats it. MH or T5? Are you trying to start world war 3? Which of those is a hotly debated topic. My 90 has T5's, my 120 has MH with T5 supplements.

If you can direct vent it outside, the better. Its less heat in the house itself and that makes it easier to cool the tank.

Good idea on the heating.

Dual drains. If one gets stopped up for some reason, you have backup in place. If my tanks were acrylic I would drill even more holes in the bottom of it. The 120 has 3 holes (2 drains, one for return) - would want two more. One for wiring, the other for a second return. My 90 only has one hole drilled in it and I hate it.

As big as you can possibly get on the skimmer, no particular brand recommendation from me though, I built mine.

No. Do NOT run a 1/4 line to the tank for auto top off. If the float valve gets stuck, the water will run until you turn it off. Better with an ATO container. Then if something fails, the limit of the water you put into the tank is the volume of water you have in the stand.

I think I answered them all.

What part of Central Alabama? I will be in Phenix City in a few weeks.

 

[sphinx105]

On the top-off container, do you place it under you tank above the sump or is it setting some where else? I will run into a real estate issues if I have to place anything outside of the stand.

So, don's ask about the T5 v's metal halides. I'm torn. I like the simplicity of the T5's and already have ballasts to run 8 54 watts. But I like the effect of the metal halides. The bulb replacement cost looks about the same, its the heat that might become the biggest factor.

So, 3/4 oak will suffice for the stand? I could sandwich plys together to make a "lam-beam" for the support rails as I don't want a center brace. My never built-up 55 will be the sump and it does not have a center brace (it is very thick, heavy glass) and I want unrestricted access to the sump.

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

ATO containers normally sit on top of the sump and gravity drains into the sump. You can put it elsewhere but it will work fine over the sump. Running 8 T5's on my 90, I top off about 2 gallons a day.

T5's vs MH is just one of those questions that it depends on who you ask. I have both and don't really have a preference on them. The T5's give you a lot more latitude as far as tayloring the light system though. Meaning, its a lot easier to mix up the bulbs with T5's than with MH. And unless you go to a 20K, most people run T5 supplements with MH anyway. With you already having the ballasts to run 8 T5's, that is what I would use. No point in spending money you don't have to right now.

For the stand, yes, oak plywood will suffice. My 90 stand has no center brace and the frame is simply 3/4" oak, nothing laminated together and I don't see any sagging in it. Don't see any on my old stand either and it doesn't have the center brace.

I have pictures of the new stand for my 90 somewhere if I can find them. Right now the tank is sitting on the old stand and the new stand is waiting for me to finish it (paint and stain) and I don't have anywhere to do it right now until I can get moved.

The tools I built it with were a miter saw, table saw, planer and a router. Only reason I used the planer is I learned to do woodworking the old school way and I planed all the wood down to make it all the same size because Oak isn't the same thickness over the entire length of the board.

Cut plywood and ripped oak with the table saw.
Planed the oak down to dimension.
Used the router to make the dado cuts. The bit I have fits a 1/2" luan sheet perfectly and I used 1/2" luan for the shelves in it for cost reasons.

The stand has two drawers in it (storage), the stand is 36" tall. The canopy is 16" tall and has a full drawer in it for the lights to mount on the bottom, ballasts on top. If I need to work on the lights, I simply pull the drawer out and work on them.
The canopy has double hinged doors on it. 4 small doors on the front that you can open to feed/test. Then there is a larger door that piano hinges on the top to be able to pull the drawer out.

I need to find my pics of it.......

 

[sphinx105]

The oak plywood sounds good. I have built cabinets, entertainment stands, chest and other items out of oak and like to work with it. I have access to table saw, router table, miter saw, and various air tools but no planer.

I thought about making the tank set about 4" off the back of the stand to allow for an enclosed air space up the back from the sump for plumbing, wires, and ventilation. This way I could mount exhaust fans in the top and draw air from both the sump area and the main tank for cooling. Also, I could have the exhaust routed outside in the summer on one set of fans and vented up into the living space in the winter months.

Did you seal the inside of your stand? If so, what with? I wan't a satin polyurethane finish on the outside, but thought the UV from the lighting would cause the poly to break down over time if I used it on the inside.

Do you run your fans all the time or just when the lights are on or do you have them on some kind of a temp controller?

 

[AZDesertRat]

Here are a few pics of the construction of my 100G stand. Oak plywood over a 2x4 and 2x6 frame, sealed inside and out, stained and satin polyurethane, unfinished doors on the cabinet and homemade doors to match on the canopy. The canopy actually opens at 3 different points, the doors on euro hinges and tow different piano hinged points for access to the interior. Note the stand and canopy are 6" deeper than the tank so i have more room under the stand for equipment plus a shelf for ballasts and closed loop equipment in back.

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

The only thing the planer does is cut down on a lot of belt sanding to get everything flush and even. I didn't use a belt sander to finish the face of my cabinet or canopy, they were so close that a vibrating sander finished it off.

The new stand for my 90 is 24" front to back so that the tank doesn't cover the entire stand (much like AZDesertRat's does). I did it that way so that I could run vertical pieces up the back and it would give a place to hide wires and return plumbing. The tank only has one hole drilled in it so the return has to come up the back of the tank.

Everything on the outside of the stand that you see when its closed up, is stained. Everything on the inside is painted white. And yes, it is sealed tight. I used white silicone to seal all the joints, then painting the inside of it. Then it will have a coat (probably 3 or 4 coats) of polyurethane to protect the paint. I have considered (not sure yet) using marine grade clear epoxy for the longevity though.

So far, they only ran when the lights were on because the fan was made into the light fixture that was on it at the time. I haven't made it far enough into it yet (still have to finish the stand) to actually finalize the fans. Probably a DIY setup using computer fans and a household AC thermostat to turn them on and off depending on temperature.

 

[hyperfocal]

Regarding the sump:

I DIYed my current sump out of a 20L, using acrylic baffles held in by silicon (poor adhesion to the acrylic, but that's ok for in-sump baffles IME). From a construction POV it's working fine, it holds water, the baffles are sturdy, the 'fuge section is sufficient fug-y, etc.

However, from a convenience point of view it's a mess. It's too large to fit through the doors of the stand so it can't be removed for cleaning. Accessing each of the compartments is a pain, and reconfiguring the sections (say, to increase the size of the fuge, or move the filter sock, etc) is impossible.

My next sump will be modular. Each module will be sized so that it can be easily removed through the doors of the stand. They'll be connected via rigid PVC using bulkheads/uni-seals and true unions, with the option of cascading overflows.

Something like this (not to scale of course):

It might end up a little more expensive, but in the long run I think it'll pay back. It'd be easy to reconfigure to add space for a new in-sump skimmer, or recover room if going to a recirc. Easy to change 'fuge size, or add a holding tank, or whatever. Easy to pull out a section for a good cleaning.

Each module could be fancy, made from acrylic with eurobracing and holes for probes.. or could be a food-safe plastic bucket... or both intermixed.

Anyways, just thinking out loud. If you've got the room it might work for you... Enjoy your new tank

 

[sphinx105]

Thanks for ideas! I like the extra space behind the tank to put hoses, wires, etc. The modular sump design sounds like a good idea for maintenance, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) I have this 55 tank I need to use as the deal was to get the new tank I have use the 55 as the sump to get it out of the way.

AZDesertRat, do you have heat problems with the 2 250 watts or is the chiller a safety precaution? I noted a chiller on your equipment list. I was not prepared to spend the $$ for a chiller at this point.

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

Unless you build the stand longer than the tank, or put it remote, the 55 isn't going to fit in the stand. A 55 and a 90 are both 48" long. It simply won't fit in the stand

 

[AZDesertRat]

My chiller has not run in months. I use two Vantec Stealth 4" fans in the canopy both blowing in with holes in the very top for exits and a WalMart clip on fan over the sump and they take care of everything.

 

[Everyones Hero]

Awesome thread.

I'm about to build a canopy for my 55g & I still want to build another stand (current only has 1 door & there is almost no room under it.)

AZDesertRat, it looks like your canopy overhangs the bank of your tank by quite a bit. Is there a reason for that? Could you get another picture of how you did it?

I'm thinking of using 1x1 to make a frame & then putting plywood on the sides for sheer strength/keeping the light from filling my bedroom.

My canopy idea:

(Sorry, I don't know what program you guys use for all those fancy looking drawings. )

 

[AZDesertRat]

If you look closely at the pictures you will see both the stand and canopy extend 6" behind the tank. I do not have a picture of the boards that cover up that space and connect the stand and canopy making it a one piece look and hiding the equipment behind on the shelf area. Someone else mentioned they did the same thing I think.
I would use a piano hinge rather than smaller hinges, it will give it more strength and lessen the chance of warping.

 

[Everyones Hero]

Okay, thanks.

That one plank with the hinges is where my lights/ballast are going to be mounted.

I'm going to do something similar, but it'll go over the top & across the front of the canopy. It'll be hinged so I can open it up & have access to the tank.

 

[DMBillies]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13139187#post13139187 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sphinx105

So, don's ask about the T5 v's metal halides. I'm torn. I like the simplicity of the T5's and already have ballasts to run 8 54 watts. But I like the effect of the metal halides. The bulb replacement cost looks about the same, its the heat that might become the biggest factor.

You are probably generally correct on the bulb replacements for each full set you buy (halides are around 2 x $80; t5's are 8 x $20) but a major advantage to T5's is that you can rotate out a couple at a time. Also, you'd probably want to supplement the halides, which means you can add $40 in bulbs to that total. Not to mention that if you do rotate them out you should be able to get close to 2x the life out of a T5 bulb as a halide (of course people will argue over this).

If you already have the ballasts to run them, the start-up cost would be significantly lower as well. 48" is a common size, so if you're lucky you might even be able to pick up some used reflectors.

Then there's energy... and from that standpoint alone, I think it is absolutely crazy to go with halides (especially if you need to supplement). And I'm not just talking about the amount of energy used to fire the bulbs, I'm also talking about the amount of heat your going to have to deal with in your house. And sure, you can vent a lot of that heat outside but that doesn't help you much in the summer when the air outside is just as warm as the air in the hood (outside air will be coming back into the house as a result of the negative pressure your making).

If $$ is no object (and reading your post earlier it seems that isn't true) then by all means go for the halides, but I've seen plenty of beautiful SPS tanks that are run on T5's and my own experience is that it is quite possible to get too much light into a tank when running them. There does seem to be a difference in the colors between MH and T5. I'd describe it as the T5's yielding better colors toward the warm end of the spectrum (pinks, oranges, reds) and MH's pulling out the boldest/darkest blues better. For example, a lot of torts taken from the same colonies in our reef club are a dark purplish-blue in MH tanks and more pastel colored in T5 tanks. In both cases, assuming the aquarist is doing the right things otherwise, the tanks are beautiful (and isn't that all that really matters?).

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13145706#post13145706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Someone else mentioned they did the same thing I think.

I mentioned it And yes, my stand is bigger than my tank from front-to-back. It is designed, right now, for the tank to sit centered front to back instead of all the way forward. I moved the tank forward to hide the returns and wiring. The front I wanted set back a little so that I can build a Lego suspension bridge on the ledge in front of the tank

 

[AZDesertRat]

Nothing beats the shimmer effect of halides!

 

[DMBillies]

Stir up the surface of a T5 tank and you'll get some shimmer too :smokin:

And when electricity bills continue up you'll thank me.

AZN is right, it does look cool... but I'm a graduate student with a 270 gallon in the living room of my two bedroom townhouse (gotta cut some corners somewhere). Even with T5's I don't turn the heater on in the winter time and run the AC about 24/7 in the summer. I can live without a shimmer...

 

[AZDesertRat]

I don't buy the electrical savings with T5. Watts are watts and 8x54 adds up real close to 2x250 in my book. MH bulbs on electronic ballasts don't actually draw the full 250w either. As for cooling T5 is just as hot if not hotter when you stuff 8 tubes in there. look at the total surface area of 8 long tubes vs the surface area of 2 small MH bulbs. Both get hot but I find my old 96w Powerquad PC bulbs which a 1/2" diamater like a T5 are worse than the MH.