In looking at product ingredients, they do not list individual bacteria, except to say nitrification bacteria. These is little need to dose this type of bacteria once it is in the tank, unless you had a major upset with low dissolved oxygen in the water column.
What's a good bacteria to dose after water change
- Thread starter Yolly416
- Start date
In looking at product ingredients, they do not list individual bacteria, except to say nitrification bacteria. These is little need to dose this type of bacteria once it is in the tank, unless you had a major upset with low dissolved oxygen in the water column.
Are you using a protein skimmer and are you carbon dosing? Bacteria in the water column will reproduce faster than the skimmer can remove them. No need to dose bacteria in those circumstances.
http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html
Dr Ron is a microbiologist. He claims that nitrifying bacteria double every 20 minutes.
http://www.fao.org/3/a-i4021e/i4021e05.pdf
This article from US Agriculture on bacteria in hydroponics says nitrification bacteria are slow growing.
Because I don't trust the government on much of anything, I will go with Dr Ron.
Paul B
Premium Member
Facultative do not require low or high oxygen environments. That would be obligatory bacteria. Facultative can be aerobic and switch to anaerobic. Some prefer one or the other. Carbon dosing with acetic acid or ethanol is thought to feed that type of bacteria among other organisms.
I go here, pick up a handful of mud, and throw it in my tank. It contains all of that. I think! But it doesn't come in those cute little bottles.
And Subsea is correct. That is why those Martians of "War of the Worlds" (one of my favorite sci fy movies in the 50s or 60s) never went to a tide pool to collect.
My tank was started with this stuff in 1971 and I still dump it in there. No problems yet, but I read problems start after 47 years.
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I go here, pick up a handful of mud, and throw it in my tank. It contains all of that. I think! But it doesn't come in those cute little bottles
You are too funny. Thank you for your wisdom and practical knowledge.
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jason2459
Well-known member
Best way to dose bacteria right there.I go here, pick up a handful of mud, and throw it in my tank. It contains all of that. I think! But it doesn't come in those cute little bottles.
And Subsea is correct. That is why those Martians of "War of the Worlds" (one of my favorite sci fy movies in the 50s or 60s) never went to a tide pool to collect.
My tank was started with this stuff in 1971 and I still dump it in there. No problems yet, but I read problems start after 47 years.
jason2459
Well-known member
Thanks I will try and read through those later when I get a chance.
Me also and it is fun.
I know you run high nutrient systems with nitrate 20-40ppm as do I. When you measure, what do your phosphates run. Timfish has several maintenance tanks set up for > 20 years in which he runs nitrates >20ppm and phosphate at 1-2ppm with SPS coral that grow fast. While most reefers will disagree with these techniques it is hard to argue with results over such a long period of time.
Your tank set up at 47 years is older than 90% of the people on this hobby forum. While I can't get the"funky old mud" that you get, I use packaged bacteria. The two advantages for you are: it's free and it will bring in pathogens that increase fish immune systems. Even though I purchase aquacultured fish, I felt that their immune systems were a weakness compared to wild caught.
Paul B
Premium Member
My reef is only 45 years old, (not 47) and I have no idea what my phosphates are. But I am going to my favorite LFS now so I will bring some water for them to test. I don't have a test kit (and don't want one)
This is me collecting that bacteria for that company to put in those little packages. :lmao:
This is me collecting that bacteria for that company to put in those little packages. :lmao:
My test kit for phosphate is when I see the beginning of cynobacteria. Then I use a phosphate resin, which is very seldome. I am presently dealing with a cyno problem in my Jaubert Plenumn 6" DSB. It served me for 20 years. However, I am now paying from neglect to vacumining it. This is the only tank with a DSB and a mud refugium.
I have always liked the concept of your reverse flow under gravel filter. I remember when you spoke of it, you emphasized low flow. Do you feel that you have denitrification going on in this sandbed?
I have always liked the concept of your reverse flow under gravel filter. I remember when you spoke of it, you emphasized low flow. Do you feel that you have denitrification going on in this sandbed?
My reef is only 45 years old, (not 47) and I have no idea what my phosphates are. But I am going to my favorite LFS now so I will bring some water for them to test. I don't have a test kit (and don't want one)
This is me collecting that bacteria for that company to put in those little packages. :lmao:
You should talk to Marc Weiss, he markets FORM, Funky Old Reef Mud.
Paul B
Premium Member
I think some denitrification is going on but not much to speak of.
Timfish and Paul B. have many picture posted on this site.
Because I am battling "lack of neglect" consequences, I will not post picture just yet.
I have long believed in the efficiency of nature. Any scientist at the micro level has seen how efficient nature works, otherwise no evolution and survival of the fittest.
For certain, health of bacteria with protein skimmers exporting nutrient is the preferred choice of modern reefers. These bacteria that are free swimming, absorb these nutrients
from the water column and are exported with a protein skimmer. Add carbon dosing and you have a nutrient export machine.
Because bacteria set up complex food webs to process nutrients, they in turn are eaten by corals and sponges. I choose to focus on these natural food webs. Because I am a
laissez-faire reef-keeper, I choose to keep it simple and inexpensive.
Because I am battling "lack of neglect" consequences, I will not post picture just yet.
I have long believed in the efficiency of nature. Any scientist at the micro level has seen how efficient nature works, otherwise no evolution and survival of the fittest.
For certain, health of bacteria with protein skimmers exporting nutrient is the preferred choice of modern reefers. These bacteria that are free swimming, absorb these nutrients
from the water column and are exported with a protein skimmer. Add carbon dosing and you have a nutrient export machine.
Because bacteria set up complex food webs to process nutrients, they in turn are eaten by corals and sponges. I choose to focus on these natural food webs. Because I am a
laissez-faire reef-keeper, I choose to keep it simple and inexpensive.
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Paul B
Premium Member
very nice display, as expected, because it is certainly possible to have a successful, beautiful reef tank with high nutrients. What is your opinion though on the survival and color of these so called "designer" corals (referring to mostly sps) in high nutrient tanks. do you think they will keep their intense color and growth rates as in low nutrient tanks with all the bells and whistles?
There are many ways to operate a reef tank. Charles Delbric said with response to seeing the bright colors of SPS from using ULNS methods, it happened just before the tank crashed. In effect the zooanthellia starve and stress the coral to give off bright colors.
Paul B
Premium Member
Saintdrm. I probably can't keep colorful, delicate SPS in my tank because the nitrates are probably around 80. I am more interested in keeping the fish spawning and all of the paired fish are doing that. It is hard to keep healthy, spawning fish and delicate SPS unless you want to do massive water changes, which I don't want to do.
